Or, as always, you can watch on YouTube:


Timeline of the Podcast

0:10 Exciting/Encouraging Things
4:30 RQ: How can I speak up more at church?
19:00 Why are you staying at your church?
29:00 Ngina joins to discuss rethinking our faith
40:40 The missing element in marriage advice
48:00 Pro Marriage vs Pro health
55:05 Encouragement!

Main Segment: How You Can Be the Change in Your Community

Two reader letters shaped this segment. Here’s the first one: 

I started following you this year and also read your book, The Great Sex Rescue. Thank you so much for addressing the unhealthy aspects of evangelical views toward women and marriage. Like you, I have young adult daughters and remember being so uncomfortable with the unhealthy emphasis in our evangelical community on modest dress for girls when they were in their teen years. Increasingly I have also been bothered by how I am treated by men at my church. In early 2020 an elder told me “of course I just asked the men for Input” regarding a ministry that many women, including me, are also involved in. I set up a meeting with my pastor to discuss this and while he listened, he didn’t seem to “get it.” This was just one example of many where men at church, often pastors or leaders treated me like I was a potential temptress to be avoided or that if I was a proper Christian woman, I was to submit, shut up and stay in my lane. As a result of your encouragement I spoke up to my daughter’s university bookstore about Love and Respect and they pulled it from their shelves. More recently, I emailed my pastor to ask why our church platforms someone who has been in the news as being abusive. While I never heard back after an initial response that was defensive but also said “I’ll look into this”, on the most recent church calendar it appears that they have switched to a different curriculum. My oldest daughter attended a women’s Bible study event at her friend’s church where she heard harmful teaching about marriage and also books like Love and Reapect were recommended. She emailed and then later met with the lead pastor to share her concerns and he asked for her recommendations for how to do better. These are such small opportunities and changes – but we took these steps because you helped us be able to see and articulate the issues well.

That’s awesome! She and her daughter took some opportunities to speak up, and they saw some real change. (And that’s the SECOND university bookstore I’ve heard of that has pulled Love & Respect off its shelves, so that’s amazing).

Sometimes people listened, and sometimes people didn’t. But they spoke up and tried to make change, and the results aren’t up to them.

Then there’s this woman’s question:

I go to a church that i love even though they promote gender role ideas I don’t gree with. However just recently my church is promoting and hosting the love and respect conference!!!! They are encouraging one and all to attend.

I feel distressed every time the conference is brought up, especially if my married friends are wanting to go. I feel even more distressed knowing young people would attend who have no idea what marriage is like and are learning a foundation that is possibly unhealthy. I have stayed quiet because I’m not sure what to do. I would appreciate any recommendations that you may have for me!! Thank you and keep up the Godly research and teaching. (I wish our church was hosting you instead!)

Rebecca and I took some time to talk about how to approach churches and why you should approach churches, and what to do if they just won’t listen. I do think at some point we need to ask if, by remaining in this church, we’re propping up something that is unhealthy. There are more people who believe that this is unhealthy than that think it’s healthy, and yet these teachings keep spreading. If all who believed in a healthy way spoke up, we could make change.

Should you stay in such a church? Some people should, because the church is changing, and you feel called to be a “missionary” of sorts there. But maybe more should leave. I know I stayed too long, and Rebecca shares some passionate thoughts about her opinion on going to a church “because it has a good kids’ program” or “because it has a good youth program.” She attended those kids’ programs and youth programs at churches which taught an unhealthy picture of gender roles and power and sexuality, and on the other side, she has things to say.

Want to Speak Up but Don't Know How?

Download our healthy sexuality rubric, our report from The Great Sex Rescue, and get access to the scoring sheet to see how our best-selling books fared! Then you can show your pastor/church librarian/women’s ministry leader what’s wrong with specific books.

Ngina Otiende: The New Turn of Intentional Today

I really enjoy Ngina Otiende, who blogs at Intentional Today. She’s been on my radar for over a decade, and I’ve even met Ngina in real life!

Ngina Otiende

Lately Ngina’s been changing her focus as she blogs, because she realizes that some of what she had been teaching was cultural, not biblical, and wasn’t helpful if people were in destructive marriages. She’s on a journey very similar to mine!

Now she’s posting things like this:

Ngina Facebook Post

We had a lovely conversation about how and why she’s evolved (which so much mirrors my own), and I hope you’ll enjoy it!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila is determined to help Christians find BIBLICAL, HEALTHY, EVIDENCE-BASED help for their marriage. And in doing so, she's turning the evangelical world on its head, challenging many of the toxic teachings, especially in her newest book The Great Sex Rescue. She’s an award-winning author of 8 books and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila works with her husband Keith and daughter Rebecca to create podcasts and courses to help couples find true intimacy. Plus she knits. All the time. ENTJ, straight 8

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