Netflix’s Unbelievable is Unbelievably Good

by | Sep 16, 2019 | Abuse, Uncategorized | 61 comments

Review of Netflix Series Unbelievable

So I binge watched Unbelievable (with some exceptions that I’ll tell you) on Saturday, and I was very impressed.

I had another post all scheduled to go for today, but I wanted to tell you about this show because it’s a new one and everyone’s talking about it, and I wanted to jump in and offer my two cents.

Unbelievable is based on a true-life case about an 18-year-old girl who was charged with filing a false rape report, and fined, only to be vindicated 3 years later when the rapist was caught in a different state, with evidence linking to her.

The mini-series was based on a Pulitzer-prize winning expose article from The Marshall Project: An Unbelievable Story of Rape. In 2008, in Lynnwood, Washington, 18-year-old Marie Adler (not her real name) called the police saying that a stranger had broken into her home while she was asleep, and raped her on and off for several hours. When the police came, she was flustered, and she changed some details in different statements. Her former foster mother told police that she might just be seeking attention. And then, instead of interviewing her and taking her statement and trying to figure out what was done, and despite the fact that she had physical evidence on her body of scratches and fights, they grilled her on why she was lying.

She eventually said she was maybe dreaming to make them stop yelling at her. The next day, she tries to retract her retraction. They don’t let her, and eventually they charge her with a misdemeanor crime, make her appear in court and plead guilty, and fine her.

Three years later, a female detective in Golden, Colorado is called to an apartment building where a 22-year-old woman has just reported a stranger breaking in while she was asleep, raping her on and off for hours, and then making her shower.

He takes all of the sheets, comforters, etc., and leaves nothing behind with any DNA. The female detective, Karen Duvall, is so gentle with her, but persistent. She respects the victim, she treats her with dignity, she really is in all ways wonderful.

 

She’s also very frustrated by the case, because there’s so little crime scene evidence. She talks to her husband, who is a police officer in a neighbouring jurisdiction, about the crime, and he mentions that they had one just like it. So the next morning Detective Duvall shows up on Detective Grace Rasmussen’s doorstep, and the two of them team up to eventually catch this guy.

Unbelievable portrayed faith in an amazing way

I have rarely seen movies or miniseries do this, and I’ve actually seen Netflix being very anti-faith, so I was so impressed (and surprised!). Karen Duvall is portrayed as being a very strong Christian (as apparently the real detective is).

You see this for the first time when the victim is in the car with her, and they’re driving to the hospital. Amber (the victim) looks down, and on the dashboard is a sticky note with the words:

Here am I. Send me.

Amber (and by the way, this actress did an AMAZING job, too), asks what it means.

Karen thinks for a minute–you can see she’s trying to decide how much to divulge–and then she says something like (I’m going from memory):

It’s from Isaiah. The world is really messed up, kind of like it is today, and God is looking for people who will do something about it. And Isaiah says, Here I am, send me.

And that’s what you see from Karen for the rest of the mini-series. She’s very compassionate, but she’s also extremely professional, and even hard on the cops under her when she feels they’re not doing their jobs well. She’s absolutely dedicated to justice. She’s a great mom. But she also really struggles with her frustration when they can’t find the guy.

You see her and her family in church. And one day Amber shows up in church, too, and Karen seeks her out, just to talk.

Grace Rasmussen, the other detective, often makes fun of Karen’s faith, which Karen takes in stride. But at the very end, Grace even admitted that for the first time in a long time that morning she had said a prayer. It was a prayer rather laced with profanity, but it was still an honest prayer.

The dichotomy between the two detectives was quite stark.

Karen is dedicated, by the book, compassionate, and steady. Grace is a firecracker, always doing things you don’t expect, not explaining herself, and getting very, very angry. She’s the senior detective, the one with all the experience. And she swears a TON. LIke a TON. I can’t stress that enough. If you can’t handle swearing, please don’t watch this show. At the same time, you can tell that the reason she swears is just the sheer awfulness of what they’re dealing with.

At one point, the two detectives are talking and Grace says, “I don’t know how you can believe in God when all of this is happening.”

And Karen replies, “I don’t know how you get through all of this without God.” And they leave it at that. And it’s suggesting to the viewer, I think, that Karen’s view is the right one.

 

The dichotomy between the two detectives in Colorado and the detectives in Washington was just heartbreaking and infuriating and I couldn’t watch it.

Grace and Karen treated their victims so well, even though Grace’s victim had holes in her memory in the same way that Marie Adler had. They cared for their victims. To say that Marie Adler’s detectives re-traumatized her would be an understatement.

And to be frank, I couldn’t watch it. Perhaps, had it not been based on a true story, I would have watched it. But knowing that Marie is a real person, a real girl who grew up in foster care, who had been repeatedly abused as a child, and then, when she reported a night-long terrifying rape, she was told she was the problem–I couldn’t do it. The miniseries was shown in two timelines–what happened with Marie after the rape, and the investigation three years later in Colorado. Every time Marie came on, I skipped to the next Colorado scene. I couldn’t. I just couldn’t. I’m still tearing up that anyone could be treated like that.

Please, in the comments to this, let’s not get into a discussion about false rape reports, okay? I absolutely know they happen (I’ve had some happen in my immediate circle), but I also know that they are very, very rare. And in this case, she did have bruises and scrapes. There was no reason for the police to disbelieve her. It was just a travesty.

The frustration that Grace and Karen felt about how the resources were allocated about rape and how violence against women was treated was very palpable.

In the series, they at first thought the perpetrator was a police officer because the scenes had been cleaned of DNA. So they spent quite a while focusing on cops. Apparently there are studies that show that 40% of police officers are domestic abusers. They asked the question, “what if it came out that 40% of female officers abused their kids? They’d be fired in an instant.” But you can be a cop even if your wife has a restraining order against you because you’ve beaten her up. It’s not right.

That’s not to say that all cops are abusers, so let’s not go there in the comments, either, okay? And I do believe that police forces will have an increasingly difficult time attracting quality applicants when there is so much animosity towards police officers, as there is today, so I understand that things are in a catch-22.

But like Grace said when she was so angry (and I teared up about this), “Where’s the outrage that all these women are getting raped?” They’re getting helped by the FBI, and the senior FBI officer is honestly helping (though it doesn’t always seem like that), and Karen is trying to calm her down. But Grace just asks, “Where’s the outrage?” It’s the only time she really loses it in the show, and you can see that for the whole series both she and Karen are trying to keep the lid on their emotions.

Yet just for a minute, her guard goes down. “Where’s the outrage?”

That’s really the question the whole mini-series is asking.

“Where’s the outrage?” Where’s the outrage that Marie could be treated like that? Where’s the outrage that women whose husbands beat them up have little recourse but a restraining order, which basically does nothing? Where’s the outrage that there are not better computer systems and tracking systems to find rapists like this one? Where’s the outrage that so many police departments handled their rape cases so badly, and that the rapist could have been caught earlier if people had just done their jobs?

After this series airs, I think there will be some outrage. It was just really well done.

They do catch the guy, by the way.

And when they do, they find pictures of all of his victims, including one they don’t recognize–Marie Adler. He has a copy of her driver’s license photographed on her torso. So the detectives reach out to the Lynnwood police department, telling him they’ve solved a crime in his jurisdiction. The Lynnwood detective assures them that Marie was making it all up, so she asks for his email, and sends him the pictures.

He’s devastated. He goes and finds Marie at work and gives her a cheque for $500, the fine that she had had to pay. She later hires a lawyer and sues the city, but settles for $150,000 (her lawyer wanted to press for more) because she just wants it over with. Apparently she’s now married, with two children, and living in a different state. She has a good life now, and I’m glad. I wish her all the best.

I couldn’t help feeling some parallels to what is happening today in the church with abuse.

After watching the series, I got in a big funk. Not because of the series itself, but because of how it reminded me of how the church is handling abuse today, and how so much abuse is being swept under the rug. It brought up my frustration and–I finally admitted this to myself this weekend–my extreme grief that Focus on the Family has not cared about the fact that Love & Respect, which bears their logo and which they recommend, has enabled abuse. Despite the huge report I sent them, despite repeated emails and twitter threads, they have said nothing. They haven’t cared. The voices of women who are being abused do not matter.

But now, I have had others reach out to me in the last month telling me that Focus on the Family counselors have told them to return to abusive husbands once those husbands have “repented” (really bad advice, because love bombing is a normal part of the abuse cycle). I have learned that Focus on the Family says you can’t divorce in cases of abuse, only separate for a time. For years I have been recommending Focus on the Family . I am so, so grieved by that now. What did I send them to? Please, please forgive me. I didn’t know.

And I’m just so very, very sad. I actually think it is grief. Because this was my tribe. I trusted them. I thought they were good. I was on their radio show three times!

And to see them doing this to women is just sometimes more than I can bear emotionally.

I feel as if so many churches and organizations are doing to abused women what those initial detectives did to Marie. They grill her. They’re antagonistic. And eventually they make it into her fault. They tell her to admit her guilt (“did you not submit enough? What did you do to provoke him? Did you not respect him?”). And they leave her unsupported.

This is not how it is supposed to be. This is not Jesus.

Jesus is there, looking at His church, asking a simple question, “Where is the outrage?”

And I am here, replying, “Here I am. Send me.”

Have you watched Unbelievable yet? What did you think? Does any of this resonate with you? Let’s talk in the comments!

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Sheila Wray Gregoire

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Sheila Wray Gregoire

Author at Bare Marriage

Sheila is determined to help Christians find biblical, healthy, evidence-based help for their marriages. And in doing so, she's turning the evangelical world on its head, challenging many of the toxic teachings, especially in her newest book The Great Sex Rescue. She’s an award-winning author of 8 books and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila works with her husband Keith and daughter Rebecca to create podcasts and courses to help couples find true intimacy. Plus she knits. All the time. ENTJ, straight 8

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61 Comments

  1. Melissa

    I’m in the middle of watching Unbelievable right now and am wrestling with all the feelings as well. I also recently read Rachael Denhollander’s book “What is a Girl Worth?” and was physically trembling by the end. How did our society fall so low that we treat women this way? We decry the fact that in some Middle Eastern governments, a woman must have five male witnesses to back up her statement or it is invalid, yet aren’t we basically doing the same thing? Treating women as if their statements are invalid? Questioning if they’re being honest? Why did it take such an avalanche of accusations to get predators like Larry Nassar and Harvey Weinstein removed from their positions? Why did SO MANY women have to be assaulted before anyone would do anything about it? It grieves me and makes me burn with anger. I don’t know what to do with all the feelings swirling inside me but I’ve got to figure something out or I’m going to explode.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      I get it, Melissa. I feel like I’ve been like that ever since January when I actually read Love & Respect. I’d been following all the church scandal stuff up until then, too, but Love & Respect was the final straw. I’ve been trying to be so reasoned in how I approach Focus on the Family. I’ve been trying to have all my ducks in a row. I give them a well-researched, huge report. And still nothing.

      How many more have to be hurt? At what point will the church say, “God does not condone abuse. If you are being abused, that is not a real marriage. We will support you as you pick up the pieces of your life.” Isn’t that what a community is for?

      In terms of Rachael and her book, what about Sovereign Grace? She used her platform with Larry Nassar to raise awareness of how the SBC and Sovereign Grace had covered up sexual abuse for YEARS and done nothing. It’s worse than the Catholic scandal, they’re now saying. And yet the SBC has used all these wonderful words of how they’re changing, but they haven’t really done a thing. All I can say is that sometimes we have to take time to grieve. It is an ugly world. But God sees, and He is shaking it mightily right now, and those in power are falling. It’s only going to accelerate. But it’s so hard in the meantime.

      Reply
      • Mom

        What’s the SBC?

        Reply
        • Sheila Wray Gregoire

          Sorry! Southern Baptist Convention. It’s the largest denomination in the U.S. Sometimes I forget that I’m using acronyms not everyone knows.

          Reply
      • Melissa

        The amount of anger I have simmering under the surface about how the church has made everything about protecting men’s “position of authority” over protecting women and children from abuse has no words. I don’t let it out very often because I have no productive direction for it, and it overwhelms me. I’m working on that with a counselor. Among other things. But believe me, I’m incensed over every instance of churches protecting a wolf when they needed to protect their flock.

        Reply
        • Sheila Wray Gregoire

          I am, too. What’s hard is to balance that with the fact that I need to be calm and collected to actually make my case. I’ll pray for you, Melissa. I get it.

          Reply
      • Melissa

        Rachael also talks in her book about how while she was undergoing the stress and trauma of the legal proceedings, she and her husband were also undergoing the trauma of being iced out of their church because of how outspoken Rachael had been on Facebook about the SBC scandal and her opinion of how churches handled sexual abuse allegations. The whole thing was so entirely unfair. The community that should have been supporting them during an extremely difficult time held them at arms’ length. When they started quietly attending a new church Rachael was surprised when the pastor approached them and said he had seen in the news what they were going through, he was so sorry for the stress they were under and how could the church support them? That shouldn’t be surprising but it is in today’s climate. 😢 It was very healing for the Denhollanders, but how many people have been iced out of their churches? It happened to my family when I was a teenager and my parents wrestle with the repercussions to this day.

        Reply
        • Sheila Wray Gregoire

          It is so very, very sad. Unfortunately, I’m not surprised anymore.

          The thing to remember, though, is that it’s not all churches. It’s a certain type of church–a church that values authority and power over servanthood. And we must teach people how to recognize a healthy church and an unhealthy one. Here’s my attempt. I just pray that those in churches like this can find a healthy body of Christ, even if it means switching denominations.

          Reply
    • sunny-dee

      Part of the challenge with cases like Nassar or Weinstein is that despite hundreds of assaults, they were never actually reported by the victims. And in some cases (like Weinstein) the nature of the interactions twisted things so that it essentially made the victims complicit in their own victimization — Asia Argento, for example, said that Weisntein raped her but then she had a consensual sexual relationship with him for five years afterward. Other people, like Rose McGowan, felt like they had to play along to advance their careers (and I understand that was also a lot of the pressure with the gymnasts working with Nassar, among others).

      That’s not to victim blame, at all. They didn’t cause those situations. But it does go to show how incredibly difficult it can be to even come forward with those kinds of accusations — and that pressure is what allows predators to get away with it.

      Reply
      • Melissa

        Rachael talks about that extensively as well, how predators are allowed to thrive and what kind of a part that had to play in her legal defense. A big point she makes is that people need to be educated about how predators operate, because they hide in plain sight, surround themselves with people who are willing to turn a blind eye, and are experts at grooming and confusing their victims.

        Reply
  2. Lindsey

    Does the show depict rape scenes? That’s something I truly cannot handle, so I’m just curious how much you see of the rapes? I can handle hearing about a rape, but not seeing one portrayed.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      No, it really doesn’t. At least I don’t know about Marie’s rape–like I said, I skipped all the parts which featured her until the end. I don’t think it does, though. It opens with her after the rape.

      It does show in very, very brief images flashbacks to very, very brief things, but it’s more like a second or two with one of the victims. They do talk about the details. But I think they were deliberately trying to not make it triggering.

      It DOES have a ton of swearing, though. Just because some people I know can’t handle it.

      Reply
    • Lea

      They showed the rape of Marie in flashbacks multiple times in the first episode. I have never been raped and it was disturbing to me, but the aftermath was much worse, imo.

      Reply
      • Sheila Wray Gregoire

        Thanks, Lea, for that info! Like I said, I skipped all the Marie parts. Just couldn’t bear it. I do think you can watch the series and still get a lot out of it while skipping, if you have to do so for your mental health. I watched the last bits in its entirety for when she gets her apology.

        Reply
    • Roxanne Brown

      I want to watch Unbelievable, but it’s not showing up on our Netflix. Is it only in Canada right now?

      Reply
      • Learning A New

        Roxanne we just watched it here in Australia. I am not sure which other hubs are showing it.

        Reply
  3. Lea

    I have only seen the first episode and it was rough. When that actor from Coach playing a cop was grilling her it was infuriating, especially knowing this is a true story (having read the article previously). I think i’m going to have to take this in bits instead of binging.

    I think everyone should watch it though to understand the aftermath of reporting sometimes and why people might fear it or avoid it.

    Reply
    • Tim West

      Wasn’t the tall guy from Coach (the cop) rightfully frustrated that the young woman was changing her story?

      Reply
      • Sheila Wray Gregoire

        She couldn’t remember details properly (and other victims couldn’t, either, including one that Grace was interviewing later, but that didn’t mean that she didn’t get believed. It’s quite common to not remember details). Then they grilled her so hard she said she may have dreamt it, and then she tried to retract saying she dreamt it, and they leaned on her harder. It was absolutely awful, it was not warranted, it went against all proper police practice, and it was unconscionable. He even admitted it at the end of the show.

        Reply
      • Lea

        “Wasn’t the tall guy from Coach (the cop) rightfully frustrated that the young woman was changing her story?”

        No. She was right, they told her it didn’t happen and they didn’t believe her. They threatened her housing.

        This entire show is a ‘what not to do’ with rape victims for cops like guy from coach. If you’re not seeing that you need to do more reading.

        Reply
        • Tim West

          I’ve actually only seen the first episode, and only most of it. I didn’t think the cop from Coach was being wrong or insensitive, at least not in the first episode.

          Honestly, I have no idea how to binge-watch all the good shows out there and still have something that resembles an actual life.

          Reply
        • Sheila Wray Gregoire

          Yep. And the city quickly offered her $150,000 because they knew they did wrong.

          Reply
  4. Arwen

    Nobody takes rape seriously because those who do the majority of the raping , men, are the ones who have all the power in the legal system, the judges, in the households, neighborhood, etc. Child molestation is actually rampant in some ethnic households. For example, 60% of little black girls are sexually molested by black men and the black community covers it up to protect black males because they believe black males already suffer in the greater society! Imagine protecting a pedophile under such pretense. Black women are only 6% of America’s population yet have 60% of molestation rate.

    And don’t even make me mention the pedophilia rate in the Arab and Hispanic communities! At least the white community is years in advance in exposing child molesters/rapists in their community. While other communities protect them at all costs. There are several reasons for this but the major one is there is to much coddling of the male gender in these none-white cultures. Michelle Obama once said, “We raise our daughters and coddle our sons.”

    For the last 3 years i have been doing a study on why communities around the world coddle sons, show favoritism to them, treat their daughters harshly, etc. I’m studying it’s origin and how it allows men to get away with heinous crimes because the community will come together and protect them. I’m trying to delve into the root of the problem, which obviously is sin, but more than that the male worship, male idolization that is rampant in these communities, by both genders (women & men). I have been discovering very interesting things. Most of it affirming what i have believe for a long time. But it’s very eye opening and tragic!

    Thanks for recommending this movie. I’ll keep my eyes glued to see where and how the foster care community protects molesters. They are notorious for this.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      That sounds like exhausting work, Arwen. I hope you’re able to escape it sometimes. I know how exhausted I get here. I can imagine what delving through that stuff would do to you! Good for you.

      Reply
    • Lea

      I’m uncomfortable with the racial framing of this. I know of child abuse in white families that has gone unreported including my own. I’m not convinced we’re doing better than anyone else on that.

      The answer is the same for all families, and society as a whole. Believe, protect and report. Take it seriously.

      Reply
      • Arwen

        When people are hurting especially children our comfort level should never cloud our judgment. There are some things that are just worse in some communities than others. Some communities do things better than other communities. That’s just facts. Muslim women have higher rate of FGM (Female Genital Mutilations) than none-Muslim communities. To ignore this because it doesn’t suit our sensibilities is cruel to the survivors who are looking for allies and advocates to come alongside them and be a “voice for the voiceless.” I mean ask yourself, were you aware that 60% of black girls were sexually molested? And if you weren’t aware, why not? Why is this not a well known fact. Could it be because some communities truly do hide their evils and protect their evil doers better than others? According to studies the answer is yes.

        That’s not to say the communities who do it better (as in exposing evils) don’t have situations where they do cover up evil. But i prefer to deal with statistics and studies. Stats and studies have shown us again and again that some evils thrive better in some communities than others. It has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with cultures that have passed on generational practices for myriad of reasons, i.e. fear of speaking up, fear of ex-communication (shunning), fear of eternal damnation, fear of death, etc. Threats like these keep some communities paralyzed and they become the best places for evil to thrive.

        Reply
        • Rebecca Lindenbach

          Just a quick thing, saying that 60% of black girls are molested is very very different from saying 60% of young girls who are molested are black. I believe that the stat is the latter, not the former. That’s an important distinction to make.

          As well, I think that it is important to look at where people are experiencing acute levels of abuse or mistreatment so that we make sure we have appropriate levels of respondents and supports available to vulnerable populations, but I also think that we need to talk about the solution in general terms so that it doesn’t become an “us-versus-them” conversation since, really, we ARE seeing this kind of evil in every single community there is.

          So yes, let’s bring to light what types of systems make it easier to get away with harming the vulnerable, and when possible let’s lead with those systems rather than framing everything around race. Because, like you said, this has nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with power dynamics. So I would recommend not leading these conversations with race and instead leading with the actual cause: damaging systems and beliefs that lead to increased vulnerability and limited protection of innocent children.

          Reply
          • Lindsey

            I think that Arwen is perfectly within the bounds of reasonable behavior to state the statistics as they apply to race. I mean, if you want to go that route – as a woman of color she should be more than qualified to comment on statistics as they apply to her own race (for the record, I believe that facts should be able to be spoken freely by everyone, that’s FREEDOM). Just because people don’t like to make the distinction that there are higher levels of certain issues in some races than others doesn’t make it not true. And if it’s true then we should bring it to light and ask “why?”. She never said white people don’t have any issues with child molestation going unreported – of course they do – but what she said is that it’s higher in certain races. That’s a statement of fact, made by a woman who’s done her research (and who happens to be of that race herself), and no one should be taking issue with it. I didn’t know the information she shared, but I appreciate her informing me so that I can look for ways to advocate and educate others.

        • Lea

          “were you aware that 60% of black girls were sexually molested”

          I am aware that rates are very high in that community, yes. But you seem to be very blase about the issues in white families. And I dont see any evidence that it being taken care of in that community. I have not seen anything about rates being higher in hispanic families at all so I can’t speak to that.

          I am uncomfortable with your framing. Particularly considering this show is about poor police response. That would undoubtedly be WORSE in dealing with women of color. And with sex workers, for that matter. I was reading a terrible thread the other day about multiple serial rapists and straight up serial killers who would have been caught if the police had simply done *any* investigation of their reported rapes.

          Reply
        • Arwen

          Rebecca, the statistics is actually the former. I don’t know how they do it in Canada but in the US we do take race based data’s because different issues affect a bunch of sub-groups distinctively. I only mentioned it here to give a different perspective since it pertains to the topic at hand. It can be edifying to some people. Me personally when i read comments i LOVE when people give different perspectives because i enjoy learning and doing research. I don’t like echo chambers at all. However, if mentioning race is to much, let me know and i’ll make sure to never speak of it again. 🙂

          P.S. For some reason i only receive replies periodically in my email. I guess because i comment a lot my email can’t handle it. Regardless, if i don’t respond it usually means i didn’t receive it in my inbox.

          Reply
  5. Phil

    Sheila. As you have told me in not so many words before. We live in a world that is hard. I see that you are condemning yourself for sending people to Focus on the Family. Please dont do that. God knows your intentions and as you have written before WE MUST TRUST IN HIM. I have been given all kinds of direction that wasnt the best from others. I have even chosen my own paths that worked out but were not the best choices. God will and has cared for those people you sent to Focus just as he has cared for me. Now you know the truth and now you can take a new path. I hate this true story you share. It reminds me of my true story. The bottom line is regardless how much I hurt God gave me that path out. Through peoples help. People like you. You did the right thing. Thank you Sheila.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Thank you, Phil. I needed that.

      Reply
    • Amy

      Thanks Phil! Well said

      Reply
  6. Arwen

    I forgot to add, another vivid example of male coddling in our culture is in the prison system. A well known prison worker said once that in the female prisons there are hardly any visitors, the last time he saw one was several months ago. While the male prisons are filled with visitors from families EVERY SINGLE DAY! There mothers, sisters, girlfriends/wives, friends, neighbors, letters, gifts, etc. In another words when women commit crime she’s discarded like trash even family/friends vow to never see her face. While families can’t get enough of their male criminals. Heck even notorious male criminals get married in prison!

    The man said he can’t even remember the last time any of the females had a received a letter while in the male prison they go through mails like they were the post office! It makes me sick! Nor do the females even get family members to send them menstrual pads, while the men are brought candies, chips, during visiting hours, etc. This male worship, male coddling, male protection has got to stop! This type of treatment if why men get away with so much and pride puffs them up.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Oh, that’s awful! I wonder if part of it is that the women who are more likely to commit crimes are women who come from totally awful families or no family at all (former foster kids), while the men often have great moms but no dads. So the female prisoners are truly alone. Add to it that so many women who are violent come from violent families, and it’s all a big mess.

      Reply
  7. Natalie

    I can feel your pain in this post, Sheila, and I empathize with you. Hugs! xo

    I think the primary reason rape & rape allegations are such a hot button issue these days is because they’ve been so politicized (at least here in the States). Everyone I know – conservative or liberal, Republican or Democrat or Independent – wants to believe the victim & give her the benefit of the doubt because we’re all understanding, empathetic, compassionate people; I think those traits are inherent when one is a true believe in Jesus. But it just seems there have been a number of high profile cases in the past several years that were 100% politically driven. And that’s just sad. That’s using real victims & their suffering for your party’s political gain; it’s not right! And it makes us all second guess the women who come forward & makes us question if she has ulterior motives, especially when there is little to no physical evidence to support their claims, which I also find lamentable. When there is hard physical evidence of rape, it should ALWAYS be taken seriously! When there isn’t, both sides should tread carefully & not demonize one person or the other because the implications for both parties (the potentially raped women and the potentially innocent man) are very serious and life changing if the truth is not revealed.

    Concerning Focus on the Family, as I’ve said here before, my mom, Christian school & church growing up were/are all strong supporters of them. They as well as the large well-known Evangelical church I grew up in were the two Christian institutions I thought I could pretty much trust 100%. It’s heartbreaking for me too to have that trust broken and to see them not coming out & issuing a statement of belief which includes the concept that marital abuse/marital rape is real and is wrong. I just don’t know why that’s such a difficult thing to come out against. It makes me wonder what their ulterior motives are (if any) & what exactly drives them as an organization.

    Reply
    • Natalie

      And then they come out with stuff like this from only 6 months ago! I don’t get it! If this is what they believe and stand for, why can’t they respond to you?!?!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vRoAE8G8iI

      Reply
      • Sheila Wray Gregoire

        I’ll never understand. I think it’s because I’m not well-connected and I’m a woman. It doesn’t seem to matter to them that I’ve got 1,000,000 page views a month and about 50,000 engaged email readers. We’re not pastors or conference leaders, I guess, so we’re not worthy of a reply.

        Reply
        • Natalie

          That’s really sad! Smh. From where I stand, that doesn’t seem like very Christ-like behavior. But then again, that’s not for me to judge I guess.

          Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      I actually think that their motivation is marriage. They want to protect marriage. And in so doing, they’ve made marriage an idol.

      They tell women that divorce is always wrong and that it will wreck their kids (which is true–UNLESS there’s a high conflict, abusive marriage. Then it HELPS the kids!). They give all this advice to women to just put up with things. And it’s so, so sad.

      Reply
      • Natalie

        That’s a good point. And even from my own life experience, I know it’s very easy to unintentionally let something you’re passionate about slide into the “idol” territory. I hope they have a reckoning in their organization soon. They have such a wide platform, history & recognizable name. I’d like to be able to trust them again. But just like in a marriage, trust cannot be restored unless there’s been repentance and visible action to back it up.

        Reply
      • Jane Eyre

        From a sociological perspective, the family is the safest place for people. Women are much less likely to be abused by husbands than by boyfriends or random men; children are about ten times as likely to be abused by mom’s boyfriend than by their biological fathers; men are healthier and live longer when married. (The last one is a general health issue, not an abuse issue.)

        It appears that one of the reasons God created the family was to allow members to protect each other from harm, using their own unique gifts.

        To then say that someone should suffer abuse for the sake of the family is so, so backwards. That’s like saying you should drink poison for the good of a hospital. If there is abuse in the family unit, the family is failing in one of its primary jobs, and it needs to fix that.

        Reply
        • Lea

          “Women are much less likely to be abused by husbands than by boyfriends or random men”

          Well, one I think boyfriends and random men are pretty widely different categories.

          Do you have actual stats on that? Because my understanding is women are far more likely to be abused by someone they know than someone they don’t, husbands or boyfriends. There are clearly many, many husbands who are abusive, and fof doesn’t know what to do with them. That’s the problem.

          Reply
        • LisaZ

          You wrote: “children are about ten times as likely to be abused by mom’s boyfriend than by their biological fathers…” and I don’t think that’s true. I just took a class on this topic for my child care job, and I thought for sure that boyfriends would be more abusive than fathers (biological or step) but according to the state of MN statistics cited in my class, children are more likely to be abused by fathers than boyfriends (something like 29% to 13% if I remember right, so that’s quite a bit).

          Reply
          • Sheila Wray Gregoire

            LisaZ, I think it depends on how you look at it. More children live with fathers, so OF THE KIDS THAT ARE ABUSED, more may be abused by fathers.

            However, if you do it on a per capita basis, and ask, “what is the likelihood of a child living with a biological father being sexually abused vs. a child living with a mom’s boyfriend?” Those stats change dramatically. When I was in school they were teaching us that you were 25 times more likely to be sexually abused living with a boyfriend than with a biological father. But statistically, far more children live with biological fathers, so that is why they have higher rates. Does that make sense?

    • Arwen

      The thing is Natalie, everyone who handles rape cases shouldn’t allow themselves to be influenced by what is happening in the larger society. It’s like when serving on jury duty they warn you not to look up the case on the internet, magazine or media. When a poor women who has zero connections to high profile cases comes to a police station, it’s not okay for the officer to connect her case with politicians, religious leaders, or any political organizations. Like jurors it’s his job to deal with the cases based SOLELY on the evidences he and others have gathered instead of looking up outside cases.

      The vast majority of rape/molestation victims are “low profile cases.” These victims have NOTHING and for officers to use any outside sources to make judgment on victims is vile! I don’t care what happens in the larger society, when a victim comes into their office, it’s only her and the facts. Not media, not politics, etc. If i as a juror looked up a case i would be disqualified the same should apply to officers who handle rape cases.

      Reply
      • Lindsey

        Arwen, I don’t think Natalie was implying that police don’t or shouldn’t take a woman seriously because of things in the greater political arena, only that, as she said, when there is NO physical evidence, they HAVE to consider the possibility of false reporting (even low profile women can have personal vendettas). I don’t want to venture too far into this, as Shelia asked us to avoid talking about it, but even with something as heinous and prevalent as rape, people are still innocent until proven guilty. I cannot imagine how awful it must be to have been violated in such a way and NOT be able to prove it. As a mother of daughters (with a husband who would never let that stand without inflicting some sort of punishment himself – lol) it terrifies me. However, as a mother of sons, the idea of automatically “believing all women” despite a lack of evidence is also equally terrifying.

        How I long for Christ to return and put an end to the suffering that sin us wrought upon the world!

        Reply
        • Blessed Wife

          You are SO RIGHT!! So right.

          Every story needs to be heard out from both sides very carefully, and physical evidence especially should always be followed up on. Evidence needs to be weighed, pursued, and circumstances considered.

          My heart bleeds for women who have been hurt, who deserve to be believed, and who can’t prove the truth; especially if the reason they can’t “prove” it is because investigators simply disregard the evidence, as appears to be the case in this story. I’ve seen one such case, and all I can say is that I wish the victim had shot the attacker instead of the wall to scare him off.

          Mostly though, we see cases where the story is on one side, and the evidence (or more often lack thereof) is on the other. Either way, someone is going to be haunted for life with a trauma they didn’t deserve.

          We have to teach our children from toddlerhood how to keep themselves safe and how to treat other people. And we need to pray. A lot.

          Reply
        • Lea

          “people are still innocent until proven guilty. ”

          This is a standard for a jury. What does it matter when the vast majority of rapes get nowhere near a trial? The police are supposed to investigate, and in many cases they take ‘the accused says they didn’t do, oh well’ stance. That’s not an investigation.

          In this case, they didn’t believe the victim and strong armed her into changing her statement while she was traumatized. They were proven wrong, only because someone else actually did the police work and found the perpetrator. Because they BELIEVED the victims in those cases and investigated.

          Reply
        • Blessed Wife

          I believe the stance the police often take is not so much, “we believe him” as “we have conflicting stories, no physical evidence, two voluntarily drunk people, and we just can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt (or even enough to bring charges) who did what to whom.” Often this is as much or more the prosecutor’s decision.

          It is an ugly fact of life that some things a woman may do can muddy the waters of consent, such as going to his house, inviting him into her room, drinking too much (especially to the point she has holes in her memory), etc. I’m NOT saying that a woman who does any of the above is “asking for it”, much less that any woman deserves to be violated in any way. All I’m saying is that those circumstances can make sorting out consent more difficult.

          That said, physical trauma is a clear indicator that something happened that shouldn’t have, and it needs to be followed up on. The cops in Marie’s story didn’t do that. That is maddeningly wrong! I hope they’ve learned from their screw-up.

          Reply
  8. AM

    And then you have people like Brett Kavanaugh who has been being relentlessly attacked with “victims” and “stories” who later admit to purposely trying to bring him down. There was very clear proof that he was nowhere near the location or party where they claimed this stuff happened. I think the problem is three-fold. 1) False allegations that are clearly proved to be false and an effort at political gain or an attempt to control or ruin someone’s life have no consequences. Brett was dragged through the mud, his career nearly ended, and the woman who admitted to fabricating the story? Absolutely no consequences. 2) Women should not be believed without question because the act of the matter is, many DO lie or inflate situations because they know it will gain them attention and sympathy. I don’t think the number is as small as you might think but it’s hard to prove because how do you actually track something like that? 3) Clear definitions of sexual abuse need to be in place. What actually constitutes sexual abuse or rape? Women tend to throw everything and the kitchen sink under sexual abuse…even something as simple as “you look very nice today.” (there’s a video on Instagram about this and it’s so ridiculous). So their allegations are not always taken seriously. The term “sexual abuse” has been so watered down in our culture it’s lost it’s seriousness.

    In my view, there is a balance. Allegations deserve to be treated very, very, very seriously and no rock should be left un-turned. Truth and justice should be sought. But on the flip side, there needs to be a *fair* investigation where one side is not believed above the other until the whole picture is in place. Blindly believing a woman just because she’s a woman is not true justice. The reason? What if your son was falsely accused? Would you not want him to have a fair investigation and him to be acquitted when there was no proof to her allegations? There’s a reason you can’t just accuse someone of something without due process.

    Reply
    • MidwestWife

      I agree with this and was very disheartened by the Brett Kavanaugh false allegations. Those allegations I believe will forever leave an imprint on our country. Like you said, as a man I’d be scared and like I tell my husband “do not give anyone a reason to make false accusations against you – do not even be near a woman alone”. I have a daughter so far and no sons yet but you better believe they will all learn mixed martial arts. Instead of blindly watching from the sidelines we will be taking direct actions to ensure anyone that messes with them will wish they were dead afterwards.

      Reply
    • Blessed Wife

      I agree with you. Every word. I especially agree that I think the false-to-true report ratio is probably higher than people believe. I think most of us probably evaluate belief based on cases that have fallen within our own observation or hearing, or heaven forbid, our own experience. My observation has been such that I am a firm believer in hearing out both sides, before deciding to believe any accuser.

      On the other hand, maybe you’ve never been pinned beneath the weight of someone half-again to twice your weight while they did things to your body that you didn’t want and were saying “No!” to over and over. I have had a few variations on that experience. It’s terrifying, even if he stops after a few minutes. Even if there is no pain, no mark left behind, no penetration. That realization that you can’t stop him, can’t get him off you, and you just have to hope he stops because when you tried to push him off he laughed (or climbed back on and tried to pin your hands saying “that’s enough”)- it is enraging, but mostly it is very, very scary. And I was so very lucky.

      So yes, that’s why women make a big deal out of things that don’t seem like a big deal to the men on the other side. I’m shaking just remembering and writing, and I wasn’t raped or hurt, wasn’t even struck. My experiences were nothing compared to a real attack. Women whose attackers went further? Who really were raped? Who were penetrated against their will by some guy who wasn’t paying enough attention to realize that they weren’t just teasing when they said “No, don’t.”? Much less one who understood and enjoyed the control and fear? I just can’t even…😖😖😭🤯

      That said, some things coming out of the me-too movement are just nuts, and I really believe those things trivialize the real crimes that occur and the suffering of genuine victims, as well as contributing to the skepticism and disbelief that some victims encounter.

      Reply
  9. Jane Eyre

    Given my own history, it’s really hard to read this.

    Some of the problem is that assault and rape are so horrible and ugly that people would rather believe they didn’t happen. Murder is horrible ugly, but you can’t argue that the person is still alive. But if maaaybe it’s not actually rape but is a misunderstanding, or she has an overactive imagination or the older relative has said he’s sorry for beating the little kids, then we can all just kiss and make up.

    We also lack much of an understanding of forgiveness. Rachael Denhollander told Larry Nassar that she forgave him… when reading her victim impact statement and advocating that he go to jail. I’ve met people who think that those things do not coexist. But her point is that we can forgive someone but still want justice to be served, and I would argue that those things are intertwined. To forgive those who got away with murder (or rape) is a tougher pill to swallow than to say that you leave vindictiveness behind, allow the system to mete out justice, and leave the rest to God.

    When your assailant or rapist is part of your family, forgiveness does not mean that you have to be around the person ever again. It can mean that you have moved on and leave it in God’s hands, but that doesn’t mean you have to play nice over Thanksgiving turkey. (You’re not supposed to start fights, but you can ask that the person not be invited if you are there.)

    Reply
  10. Ben Tebbens

    Wow, I just can’t read all of this lol, nooooo spoiler, cracking up. Wow, we’re gonna have to certainly put this on our list, wow!! Thanks so much, oh my goodness, just can’t wait to watch and portraying faith so well, yes mam, yes mam. I just want to take a minute lol while commenting on how much I looooove lol your podcasts, yeaaah, I even share them on my page, of course with a link to you but you guys, oh Lord, I hope you don’t mind me saying, just feel so much like family, so comfortable, so down to earth, thank God, so real. A breath of fresh air, thank you, thank you Lord 🙂 Looove having your daughter on at times through them too, so, so awesome and precious lol, soooo nice to have another, milinial perspective and dare I say, you guys lol done good 🙂 Just love her fresh, fun honesty, real life for real people. Ahh, actually praying for her and her pregnancy…what a blessing that will be to actually sooooo many people who listen. God keep you guys and bless you. Did I say thaink you hehe, enjoy, enjoy, see, why am I just cracking up…your just good…real people like us, thanks a bunch 🙂

    Reply
  11. Leslie Houck

    I have been wanting to watch this, it looks very interesting. But I was concerned about graphic depictions of sexual violence that Netflix ones about in the beginning. From the comments above it looks like I could probably skip through that as you did, Sheila with not too much trouble. It sounds like an important series.

    Reply
  12. Mb

    I read the book based on “Marie’s” story. It’s such an important thing to understand but so hard to take in. If you prefer reading, it’s another option. Not at all written from a Christian perspective but it’s pretty concise and clear. It’s called “An Unbelievable Story of Rape”

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Oh, is there a book, too? I read the article, but I didn’t know it had been turned into a book. Thanks for that! I’ll go look for it.

      Reply
  13. Bonnie

    I think a big part of the issue that is reflected in your post above, is that both socially and as a church (at least in my experience), we’ve labeled women as predominantly emotional, and since emotions are fickle and can’t be trusted, women’s claims are automatically to be taken with a grain of salt, or maybe even dismissed altogether because the ruling power of women’s emotions skews the facts.
    Personal story: Even being raised in a Christian home, I have a plethora of memories of being told I was simply too sensitive, emotional, or dramatic, regardless of the situation. While those reprimands were often true of my teenage self, now in my 30’s I’ve worked through some very serious wounds related to the dismissal of my word because I was just “so dramatic.” Namely, my grandmother has and still retains an unhealthy obsession with my body that lands somewhere between sexual harassment and sexual abuse. When we would visit she had a constant need to touch me (not necessarily inappropriately), her sleeping plan was always for me to share a bed with her, she would lurk around corners to watch me get ready for the day, stare across the table at me and then lavish me with compliments on how “right purty” I was, talk openly and indiscreetly about my breasts and figure regardless of who else was present, demand to know my weight, and sometimes demand to see my bra or to remove my swimsuit cover so she could see my figure. I expressed discomfort to the best of my limited ability, but my parents laughed it all off or snapped at me to “respect your elders”, causing great confusion for me for years to come. When I was finally mature enough to articulate how her behavior was violating and inappropriate, I was constantly dismissed as being “too dramatic” and brushed off because “she’s just playing” or “well she’s had a rough background.” For years and well into my 20’s and early 30’s I attempted to communicate with my parents, mostly because they kept inviting her to stay with them in my home whenever they visited (often without telling me), but I was always met with a cache of excuses. I remember one evening I asked how they would respond if an older male relative talked about their grandson in such terms, and they were outraged at the very thought until I expressed that’s how my grandmother acted. The excuses flowed and continued for years because I was just too dramatic and emotional.
    On the flip side of things, when my only brother expressed any level of discomfort with family members of the same sex, his perceptions were honored without question and his concerns were accommodated. Am I being too dramatic? I wrestled with that label for years, but it was actually my brother who was the first family member to believe all I had said about our grandma.
    The issue of why it’s so hard for women to be heard is complex and multifaceted, but I think that the social perception of females as emotionally compromised has contributed to the idea that females are inherently unreliable. My experience of this is nothing compared to what “Unbelievable” portrays, yet I can’t help but wonder if there are common threads between stories that relate to the simple idea that “you’re just too dramatic; that’s not what happened.”

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Oh, Bonnie, what a heartbreaking story! I think we have such difficulty believing that women can be sexual abusers, but they totally can. And you’re right–we do think girls are too emotional, and don’t trust what they say. I’m so sorry that your parents refused to hear you. So sorry.

      Reply
  14. Tina

    Wow what a coincidence, I binged watched this whole series last night with my husband. I did not realize it was based on a true story. The perseverance and the grit of the two detectives was phenomenal. The christian detective never backed down from what she believed. They did their jobs well!

    Reply

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