This week we’ve been talking about how books like Love & Respect go so far off base.
I started with showing how the view of sex in Love & Respect is very wrong. And then yesterday I showed how the concept of a wife giving a husband unconditional respect is flawed.
I received this comment on Facebook from a woman:
I think it’s because a lot of Christian teaching actually empowers men to act badly, and that’s because of that faulty premise.
So let’s step back from Love & Respect and other books for a moment and look at the big picture.
I believe that if a marriage wants to honor God, the starting point needs to be GOD. The big question we should always ask ourselves in marriage (and in life!) is “what honours God in this situation?”
Matthew 6:33
Marriage, to the wife, then becomes about following the husband, rather than following Jesus.
Many of you may balk and say, “But Sheila, the Bible does say women are to follow their husbands!”
Yes, there are a few verses that can be interpreted that way. But if we look at what the rest of the Bible says about:
- following Jesus no matter what else is going on around us;
- never having anything come between us and God;
- obeying God, not man
then the idea that a woman should focus on what her husband wants rather than what God wants falls apart.
Similarly, if we look at all the stories in the Bible about marriage, women are often commended for going against what their husbands were doing (1 Samuel 25), or they’re punished for following their husbands (Acts 5:1-11).
When we interpret the Bible, we’re supposed to let the complete story of Scripture inform our view of certain verses, not create doctrine out of certain verses out of context from the rest of Scripture. And those who say that women must concern themselves with what their husbands want rather than what God wants ignore the wide breadth of stories from the rest of Scripture; the teaching from the rest of the Scripture about the supremacy of God; and even the verses that surround the very ones they use (they quote Ephesians 5:22 but ignore 5:21)! There are much better ways to interpret those verses that keep Christ at the centre, rather than man.
Another Way to Look at It:
To them I would say: You are treading on very thin ice with idolatry.
If we ever ask a wife to seek her husband’s will first rather than God’s will, then we are putting the husband in the place of God in her life. In fact, we’re actually placing our husbands above God, because we’re saying God’s will is to do our husband’s will. If God’s will is to do whatever our husbands want, then God’s will is thus subordinate to the husband’s will, something that God would never, ever allow:
All authority rests in Jesus. He should be our ultimate aim (Hebrews 12:1-3; Philippians 3:12-14).
When Love & Respect asks women to defer to their husbands in everything, no matter what a husband does, then it asks women to follow a husband’s will rather than to seek out the Spirit’s will. Eggerichs may give a disclaimer on p. 219 that “A wife’s submission to God takes precedence over her submission to her husband,” but at the same time, he says that all decisions must ultimately be made by the husband, and she must defer. In cases of blatant sin, she can turn to God. But when it’s not a blatant sin, she’s responsible to listen to her husband rather than Jesus. And let’s face it: In the vast majority of issues in marriage, we’re not trying to decide between sin and good. We’re trying to decide between two different options that both seem right. And in that case, Eggerichs says, the husband should get his way.
Indeed, Emerson even tells women not to listen to that still, small voice inside them, but rather to listen to a husband’s intuition, because a woman is more easily deceived. That is unbiblical. That is wrong. That is the opposite of “seek first the kingdom of God.”
Now some may say, “Okay, Sheila, but isn’t deferring to our husbands what we should do? As long as they’re not leading us into sin, what’s wrong with that?”
To that I say, where in Ephesians does Paul tell wives there are conditions for submission?
Ephesians 5:22 does not give conditions for when a woman should submit. In fact, nowhere in the Bible does God give wives conditions for when to submit. So either the woman submits (as in, obeys and follows authority) in all situations, even sinful ones, or Eggerichs (and others) has a faulty definition of the word “submit.” I believe it’s the latter.
Submission is putting others’ needs ahead of our own. It is to be committed to the best interests of the other, and to point the other towards Christ even when it brings discomfort to ourselves. You can do that even when they are in sin, and you can do that in good times. Sometimes, that means being quiet and letting the other have his way. But in other situations it means tough love, making him face the consequences of his actions, and not enabling selfishness.
And how do we know when to do what?
When we put Jesus back at the center.
God’s aim is not our husband’s happiness; God’s aim is that all of us look more and more like Christ (Romans 8:29).
When Christ was on earth, He always sought to glorify God in everything He did. And He calls us to follow in His steps—and that calling included women. We are not called to follow in Christ’s steps in every relationship except marriage. No, we are called to follow Christ everywhere, at all times, no matter what. So let’s love sacrificially as Jesus did! Let’s spur each other to love and good deeds (Hebrews 10:24). Let’s spur each other on to look like Christ.
But that is not what these books teach.
If we revisit the wet towel story from Love & Respect that I shared yesterday, does this incident in any way spur anyone on to love and good deeds? To recap, Sarah was upset because husband Emerson and their sons were slobs, and left wet towels on the bed. She kept asking them to stop, and they didn’t listen to her. She went away for a week, and when she came home, she found the family didn’t miss her because they were happier being able to be slobs without anyone stopping them. So she learned that she should stop asking them to pick up their wet towels, because she was being disrespectful.
Is anyone in that situation looking more like Jesus? Is anyone spurring anyone else on to love and good deeds? Or are Emerson and his sons just rewarded for their laziness?
What do you think it does to men to be constantly told that their wives should make them happy and do what they want?
If the man is a good, Spirit-filled man, he likely will walk humbly with God and love his wife wholeheartedly anyway. But not all men are like that. And that’s why these marriage books don’t work. If anyone other than Jesus is at the center, then it’s all too easy to create a disaster.
The stark reality is that according to the Love and Respect book, Pontius Pilate’s wife was in the wrong when she spoke up against her husband when he was condemning Jesus to death. She didn’t carefully suggest what she wanted; she didn’t speak with deference in her voice. She used commanding language and said,
Let’s start elevating Jesus. It really is that simple. Seek after Christ. Do as Christ would. Point others to Christ.
If you do that in your marriage, then you’ll end up glorifying God. And that, ultimately, is all that matters.
That’s all I’m going to write about Love & Respect! Tomorrow on my podcast I’ll be talking about it, and on Friday I’ll be sharing many of the comments that you all have left over the last few days.
As always, I welcome your comments!
Can You Really Find PEACE in Your Marriage?
In my book 9 Thoughts That Can Change Your Marriage, I show how often the way that we THINK about marriage is actually holding us back from having a great marriage! Let's learn how to be GOOD, and not just NICE. And let's learn how to create the kind of relationship we long for:
Other Posts in our Love and Respect Series:
- THE MUST READ: An Open Letter to Focus on the Family about Love & Respect and Emerson Eggerichs
- A Review of Love and Respect: How the Book Gets Sex Horribly Wrong
- Love and Respect: Why Unconditional Respect Can’t Work
- The Ultimate Flaw in the Book Love and Respect: Jesus Isn’t at the Center
- Dissecting a Sermon Series where Emerson Eggerichs Gaslights Abuse Victims
- Is It Okay if Christian Marriage Books are Just a Little Bit Harmful?
- Love & Respect is Being Used by the BDSM Community to Convince Wives to Submit to Domination
- PODCAST: Why Unconditional Respect Isn't a Thing (and how the verse the book is based on, and the survey data the book is based on, don't hold water).
- PODCAST: An Example from Eggerichs' blog of Eggerichs Gaslighting Women (we work through line by line)
- PODCAST: Dissecting Eggerichs' Love & Respect Sermons at Houston's First Baptist Church, with His Dismissal of Abuse
- PODCAST: Our Love & Respect Wrap Up
- I’m Passing the Torch on Love & Respect. 10 Ways You Can Pick it Up
Plus our Resource Pages:
Like this post?
Since posting these reviews of Love and Respect, many people have asked me how they can share their concerns with their churches and community.
We created a report of the hundreds of comments we received (including good and bad reviews) which is available to download together with a sample letter to send to churches.
You can download both and send them to whoever you think needs to read them here:
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 29 years and happily married for 24! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 7 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
Hi, Sheila! I have been finding this series fascinating because I’ve been exposed to the faulty teaching for SO LONG. Interestingly enough, it hasn’t effected my husband- his response continues to be primarily Godly and unselfish. However, hearing continued teaching about “love” and “respect” did change MY view for the worse. I put expectations on myself for “keeping” my husband, rather than my seeking God. This has caused so many problems in our marriage, including my thought that sex had to occur so often (and it was up to ME to seek it) in order to keep my husband faithful. I remember having a conversation with a friend about the book where we discussed how men didn’t have any power over an urge to ogle a beautiful woman and how we needed to be available and try to look better (read: perfect) in order to keep them from looking. Wow. What pressure on ourselves when we try to constantly keep someone else from sinning. I love your straightforward approach in this piece to point us to the Lord and not to idolatry.
Thank you so much! And it sounds like your husband is a wonderful man. And if guys are wonderful–then these books will actually be fine for them, because the books do call men to love their wives as Christ did.
But I think you’re so right in that it does also change us. It makes us feel super responsible for everything, and puts these huge standards up that we can never attain to. When we focus on following Christ, things get right back in place and stop being so warped!
This series has been so great! Thankfully, my husband and i have a pretty good handle on mutual submission. I’m so thankful for my husband! Due to a family situation, we have been having great discussions about all things spiritual.
Also, I’m excited about your podcast! It’s now on my beyondpod feed list! I love podcasts! 💗 blessings!
Thank you for tackling these tough topics!
Just editing tomorrow’s podcast now. I get kinda heated under the collar. 🙂
“It is to be committed to the best interests of the other, and to point the other towards Christ even when it brings discomfort to ourselves. You can do that even when they are in sin, and you can do that in good times. Sometimes, that means being quiet and letting the other have his way. But in other situations it means tough love, making him face the consequences of his actions, and not enabling selfishness.
And how do we know when to do what?
When we put Jesus back at the center.”
This spoke so much to me this morning.
Having church leaders tell me not to listen to Jesus and listen to them because they are in leadership was so painful. But you know why I didn’t listen to them (and thankfully stopped reading Love & Respect as soon as I started it when it was recommended to me during crisis)? Because I was desperately seeking God’s will, not man’s.
I am so thankful that Jesus never left my side (and He never will) and the best way to not be pulled away by false teaching is to keep my eyes on Jesus. Not church leaders, not my husband, Jesus.
I’m so glad, Brokenhearted, that you found Jesus in the midst of all of that!
I do think we need a healthy Christian community around us, and we should definitely listen to their counsel. But if we ever feel that God is definitely calling us to something else, then we simply must follow God in that. We must. That’s what prophets did. So important!
Amen and amen!!!
I definitely think our quest to build and define “Godly marriage” has become an idol in the church. If you actually look at the breadth of Scripture, marriage just isn’t the major focal point that it is in our pulpits and literature and study groups. It’s covered and it’s important and we should seek to honor God with it, but our culture has turned it into the single measuring stick for holiness. We’ve made “gender roles” an essential of the faith. And unfortunately, that burden has fallen much harder on women. It just has.
It seems to me that we’ve complicated something that it really very simple – there are no special rules for marriage that are different than any other type of Christian relationship. Put the other person first, encourage holiness, and provide accountability for sin (talk to your brother, talk to your brother with witnesses, leave your brother in his sin).
Your point is just so spot on – our only focus is Jesus! The focus should never be on any human being – man or woman!
Thanks for the series, Sheila!
Yes and Yes!
And a corollary to that is that all the verses in Scripture that tell us how to handle people we disagree with and how to handle sin ALSO APPLY IN MARRIAGE. They don’t apply for every Christian relationship, except in marriage from the wife to the husband. They apply.
“THEY APPLY.” Boom.
I love your firmness.
YES!! We’ve created all these ideas of what submission looks like that just plain aren’t biblical, because Scripture gives us next to ZERO specifics about how this ought to play out in marriage; it only gives us overarching principles. I believe this was intentional, because every marriage is different and so this may play out differently in every marriage and THAT IS OKAY. Chase after Jesus. The rest will fall into place.
Exactly this! If there were specifics, we wouldn’t need the Holy Spirit. And the point of faith is that we need to learn to listen and walk by faith, not just live by rules (or stereotypes!)
I’ve only just begun to realize that the passage in Matthew 18 applies to marriage. It has blown everything I’ve been taught about submission out of the water!
It really does apply! It’s on how we should handle those who sin against us–and that includes our husbands (or wives, as the case may be).
Thank God I found this! I was worried that if Christ/Church was the model of my crummy marriage, maybe I shouldn’t love Christ.
I love this inspection of the word “submit.” I miss loving my Lord with freedom and abandon.
I am glad you found this, too!
I love this series that you’re doing because it really shows the flaws of the love vs respect argument. If I’m perfectly honest I would rather have respect because you can’t have real love without respect. If you show your spouse respect then love will follow. But you can’t love without respect. Both spouses need love and respect equally.
Absolutely! I totally agree.
I disagree Kim. There is no greater thing on earth than love. Faith, Hope and Love. But the greatest of these is Love. And our God is defined as Love “God is love.” His highest character trait is love not respect. You can’t respect people whom don’t you love. We’re told to what our enemies? Love them not respect them. I love many people but i don’t respect them all. Because the opposite of love is hate. But the opposite of respect is indifference. There is a reason why the Bible has more to say about love than it does about respect. From love everything else flows including respect, not the other way around.
I agree with some of your points but I’m mainly talking about how I feel in marriage. I would rather be respected than loved. I feel completely unloved if my husband disrespects me. It makes me feel like he doesn’t see me as an equal in our marriage. Luckily this doesn’t happen very often but I’ve seen instances where the husband has zero respect for his wife’s feelings and opinions and that to me comes across as very unloving. To me love and respect in a marriage go together and BOTH spouses need love AND respect. I don’t understand the concept on why just because she’s a woman that she is less deserving of being respected.
Great series, Sheila. And what you said about the wife of Pontius Pilate? Just wow! It does seem like there are a lot of selfless wives and selfish, childish husbands, and maybe literature that’s supposed to help marriages is to blame for some of that. I know there are great guys out there too, and thank God for them!
Rebecca wrote the first half of that sentence about Pontius Pilate’s wife, and I wrote the second. BOOM! So true.
There are WONDERFUL guys out there. There really are! Don’t give up, but seek Jesus first, as always, and you’ll have discerning eyes to see.
The church I quit last year did a sermon series on this book back around January 2015 (my guess based on when I added and updated Love & Respect in my Goodreads). I didn’t see a problem at the time. But this time last year I started to see what was consistently missing from most (if not all) of the formulaic sermon series (plural) that I was started to really listen to. The Holy Spirit.
I was about to type out a whole rant, but I’m going to save that for my own blog when I have more time. 🙂
I look forward to reading it!
It turned out to be a rambling rant with more ranting about other sermon series that I found worse than Love & Respect. It is probably one of those I should have let my friend read before posting to keep me in check. haha!
Thank you so much for all of your writing. I don’t read everything because sometimes I don’t want to read about marriage and certainly not sex while I’m in the middle of a divorce. But you are one of my go to bloggers to recommend to my Christian friends. You are a blessing!
[Editor’s Note:
This commenter’s posts were too long to include on this discussion thread. Although we love lively discussion on the To Love, Honor and Vacuum comment section, this is not the place for blog-post length arguments. Because the comments were just so lengthy, we could only include one in this thread.]
Husbands are to love their wives – so simple doesn’t mean so easy. If a husband loved his wife he would listen to her ideas, her requests, her this, her that… YES. He would dwell with her with understanding! Unconditional love is easier to understand for women, than it is for unconditional respect… for who the person is, who the person can be in Christ, not for their actions! Just as Jesus does not unconditionally love the church because the church is perfect, husbands do not love their wives because of how they are perfect. Jesus loves us because he loves us. Husbands love their wives because that’s Christ’s nature. Show respect for who the husband is in the same way – not by performance, but because that’s the same way the church respects Christ. Unlike Jesus, husbands mess up, but don’t diss him. Jesus doesn’t diss you when you fail!
I believe Jesus is the center of the book because it is only saying what a God-seeking person can do to love/respect her/his spouse. You can always say “but if only she/he would ______ then I would _____.” You can also always say “if I do my part I will be taken advantage of.” Guess what they did to Jesus when He did what was PERFECT. Sinful people will not always respond in the ideal way! In fact, things may get worse when you do more right things! That’s what happens when you follow Jesus. You will feel inadequate and guilty if you follow Jesus but look to your spouse to fulfil you at the same time. At the resurrection, for those who were married, the topic isn’t going to come up about how “you should have left your wife/husband because you were being treated badly even though you knew you were right.” It’s going to be “you have been faithful in a few things…enter into your Master’s rest.”
“But those who marry will face many troubles in this life”
Daniel, I agree that Jesus went through many terrible things in this life.
But He did those things FOR A REASON–to bring others to God.
What Emerson is asking us to do is to point people AWAY from God. Instead of confronting sin, we are to enable selfishness (as in the towel story). This does not glorify Jesus.
Yes, Jesus suffered much, but His aim in all of His suffering was to point people to God. Emerson asks that women suffer because they are following their husbands. The question, “what would most point my husband to Jesus right now?” is never asked.
I have talked before about how submission does not mean letting him take advantage of you, and I invite you to read that post. Many people use the argument that you are using here–well, Jesus suffered, so women should be glad when they get to share in His sufferings in their marriage–but it does not help because though it sounds like it’s putting Jesus at the centre, it isn’t. You’re not seeking God’s will, you see; you’re allowing women to suffer because of a husband’s will. Again, let’s put Jesus back at the centre and say, “what glorifies God in this situation?”
I think my other replies would have shown that that’s not what I nor Emerson were saying. I mentioned how Emerson points out at the beginning of his conferences now that love and respect means boundaries are needed to be put in place – but this book isn’t about the boundaries aspect, so there is lots to disagree with in the book if it’s read into too much without assuming eventual goodwill.
I understand that they are too long to be posted, but I’d rather my post that did go through to be deleted because it’s super easy to reply to it and say it’s wrong without the rest of what I said – like “If you are doing things out of fear, that is a red flag. Deal with it by getting help, by getting out of the situation, by getting support, etc.”
Daniel, here’s the thing. It really doesn’t matter what Emerson Eggerichs MEANT to say. The point is that countless couples are reading this book and what they are hearing is–“the wife is disrespecting her husband if she speaks up about her own needs” and “the wife is disrespecting her husband if she speaks up about his sin.” They hear “the wife should enable her husband’s selfishness.”
Now, maybe that’s not what he meant. Maybe he actually does value women (though that’s hard to see in the examples that he uses). But the point is that countless women and men reading the book have come away with the idea that the wife is selfish if she has needs (like wanting him not to leave wet towels on the bed). And that has harmed countless marriages.
People can say all they want “he didn’t mean that” or “you’re misunderstanding him.”
But if that’s true, then he sure didn’t write the book very well. Because if he actually believes things that the book doesn’t say, or if people can read his book and be confused, then his book needs some serious editing before we should recommend it to people.
Hope that’s clear. And again, I’d encourage you to read all the comments to the previous two posts, and the comments on Facebook. This is not about me. This is about a generation of women, and of marriages, who have been harmed by this teaching. And it needs to stop.
A second edition would be nice, for sure. The Bible is difficult to understand and people come away confused after reading it, but I doubt it’s the only book we are to carefully analyze for intent, context, etc.
Many have been harmed by the Bible and L&R, and many have been blessed by the Bible and L&R when correctly applied.
I’ve read some of the comments… lots of hurt. I see the culture… same stories. I’ll read more though since you’ve asked.
Maybe get the online 10-week study (includes full conference video recording) from the L&R website and go through it as a couple and see if it clears up anything.
Thanks for the discussion though. (and I don’t want to “have the last say” so please feel free to reply again – I’ll read your reply, but I’ll leave it be too 🙂
Daniel, thank you for your gracious response.
I just want to reiterate, though, that it wouldn’t matter if the 10-week study was like Jesus coming down from heaven and speaking words directly that healed everyone’s souls forever. Like, it doesn’t matter how good it is, or what it says (and I honestly have no idea); most people will only read the book, and the book hurts.
That’s the problem. If the study says things other than the book, then the book is obviously written badly and must be rewritten. If the study says the same as the book, then the study should be recalled and redone as well. That’s the way I see it!
Daniel,
Jesus did suffer greatly for our salvation, didn’t He? I’m so thankful! But the thing is, ONLY the suffering of Jesus can accomplish our salvation. Many wives are being asked to suffer and be abused for their husbands’ sake, “win him without words” etc. But the thing is, Jesus already paid the price. It shouldn’t take 2 sacrifices for a man’s salvation, only one. And when you compare our suffering with the suffering of Christ, I just can’t help but think of this concept. Hope it makes sense.
Sheila, did you see that Emerson’s father was abusive to his mother? I can’t imagine that that modeling was a good influence on him and I would be really interested to see a long form discussion of what he learned from that, because it’s rather shocking to see it alluded to in a post about how to ‘respect’ unrespectable husbands!!!
[Quote on the website: “When I was young, I witnessed my dad attempt to strangle my mother.”
https://loveandrespect.com/blog/if-a-husband-is-unrespectable-should-a-wife-show-him-contempt-and-disrespect/%5D
My understanding is that contempt is specifically listed by some marriage researchers as a really bad sign, but I think if anything warranted it STRANGULATION might qualify!
(Sorry that link didn’t work but you can find it from the search function…)
Oh, my goodness! Isn’t that sad? Yes, he never had a good model, and now he’s perpetuating it. So sad.
Sheila, I read the book over a year ago and have done a small group six week study using the materials from the DVD and study group work sheet. I did not feel at any point the book was teaching wives to be a doormat to cruel husbands.
I taught in light of Matt 22:34-40. 1 Love the Lord with all your heart soul and mind. 2 love your neighbor as yourself. Paraphrased obviously.
Following God is first, and foremost, and must be done on a personal level with Christ, through the Holy Spirit. Others can assist you, but in the end you must make the journey.
The second is similar and just as difficult, marriage, parenting, friendships and all other human interaction, fall into that category. Others can assist you, like in these types of books, and I have read many. When it comes down to it you must study and apply what God teaches and follow him.
It is unfortunate that since prior to the 50’s, pastors and other clergy have taught you must follow them as they follow Christ. Wives must follow husbands, as they follow pastors, as they follow Christ. Just follow Christ, the anyone else, no matter how high you put them on a pedestal, are but polished up sinners like the rest of us. Marriages have suffered greatly because of it.
The materials used did not teach wives to follow or even agree with their husbands blindly. I would never have taught the study. I found much of the study useful to help me be a better husband with my wife, and she said she found it very useful as well, we taught the study together. It like other help books should be used as tools to help you on the journey. Like a compass, if you find it does not point to true north, get another, in this case Christ would be true north.
Tim, I’m glad that you felt that the study was helpful. Could you comment on how he felt the workaholic husband should be handled? That’s an example, to me, of a woman following a husband’s will rather than asking, “What does God want in my marriage?”
Or could you comment on the woman who invited the physically abusive husband back into the home, and then learned not to say anything when he became angry?
You see, these things are the point. It is the examples he uses that show what he really believes. And he is asking women to enable men’s sin, rather than calling all to something higher. I hope that makes sense.
Also, here’s a bigger point: If all of these people have read the book and been seriously hurt by it–then perhaps it’s time to say, “even if he meant well, the book is not written in a safe way.”
I do not have the copy handy to check the context of the quotes. I do agree with you, an abusive spouse, husband or wife, should never be allowed to return and place the safety of the other in jeopardy, Jesus does not teach that.
You may be right the book should have been written better to address those issues.
This is the first time I have seen your site, there is much to go through. I do not usually comment on sites. Thank you for what you do.
My wife and I have committed to investing in our marriage through classes and seminars each year. I see you have some here.
I do, Tim! I really appreciate what you and your wife do for marriage. I did write a post on how a marriage ministry can thrive, and what a good marriage ministry should look like. You may appreciate that, and it may give you some things to think about. You can find that here. Hope that helps!
And God bless you and your wife for stepping out and helping to mentor other couples.
To me so much of this comes down to how girls (and boys) are socialized from a very young age. I think someone with a truly Christ-like understanding (either male or female) would read this book and think, “That’s nutty.” But instead they absorb it without a lot of critical thought because they’ve been given certain extra-biblical messages that they internalized at a young age. Of course thinking patterns can be changed in adulthood, but it’s very difficult and what these posts have reminded me is how important the msgs are that we give children from their earliest days.
So true, Sarah!
Ugh. I hate when Bible verses are used in singularity as it can be taken out of context. I’ve had many a discussion with quite a few men (and about as many women!) on this very verse of Eph 5:22.
Yes, Eph 5:21 is oft unquoted. But when I ask them to read Eph 5:25-33, there is more emphasis on the husband giving more to his wife – love as opposed to respect! It’s a wonder why those verses are not quoted more often. Why on earth should they remain hidden and untaught or not discussed?
Thank you, Sheila, for taking the hard road and bringing this up to public attention. It’s very much appreciated.
You answered your own question. Because there is more responsibility put on men and because men are lazy (it’s human nature) they would rather point the finger at the woman, like Adam did, rather doing what’s right, like Jesus did. So anytime men can blame shift, they will do it. The same is for women too. But men do it more.
“Marriage, to the wife, then becomes about following the husband, rather than following Jesus.”
I think this goes far deeper than L&R. In general, I feel like so much of what I’ve read in conservative/complementarian marriage books is that a good Christian wife’s entire life should be shaped in sole support of her husband. I not too long ago saw a snapshot from the journal of the same author as “Men Prefer Debt-Free Virgins without Tattoos” making the rounds on Facebook about why women belong at home. It was so outrageous that many readers responded by saying it was a piece of sarcasm or poking fun of this mindset. EXCEPT IT WASN’T. She was dead serious.
In everything, her point is that the woman’s job is to help her husband so he can focus on his career and his dreams; everything she does is about her husband and what he wants. The woman’s dreams and aspirations and gifts don’t matter, because it is her sole purpose to help her husband chase *his* dreams and aspirations and gifts.
I was thankful to see when one big name couple (the Raineys, maybe?) talked about how she was feeling suffocated by home life and he started making sacrifices for her to start doing the things that she loved, to use her gifts, and to travel to serve. Similarly, my husband is committed to helping me grow in my business because I adore what I do and I am good at it. We are in this together, and we BOTH want to see each other thrive. I do work from home and in many ways we have pretty typical roles, but this isn’t about working outside the home or staying home or any of that. It is about BOTH the husband and the wife pushing each other to use the gifts that God has given them as they chase after Jesus. There is no ONE right way to do that. How do we STOP these teachings that keep women so SMALL? So limited? That teach women to accept being treated as poorly as L&R modeled because it’s all about what the men want and the women keeping their mouths shut? That their needs don’t matter because his needs are paramount? So trapped in abusive marriages with no support because she must not be submissive/respectful enough or he wouldn’t be so angry?
I’m done staying small.
“I’m done staying small.”
Yes! Because Jesus made us for big things. He has good works prepared in advance for us to do! (Eph. 2:10).
And whatever we do for Jesus will be BIG, no matter what it looks like on the outside. Obviously we should not despise the day of small things, as the prophet said. But the point is that they are good works that God prepared for US–not just for our husbands. He has a role for US. That will look different for everybody, but we need to stop talking about it only looking one way.
Very helpful points. Thanks for engaging with the book. I have been concerned about it for years. While teaching a young wives Bible study, someone suggested I use it, but I had not heard good things about it.
Personally, I think the problem with marriage books is that they either give too much instruction (like Love and Respect) or can only give a general instruction. To help a couple in marriage, the one dispensing the advice needs to know the couple, and the couple needs to be forthcoming.
All marriages are different, and often the dynamics of one relationship responds well to a particular way of thinking while another will not. We need to stop expecting marriages to look the same. Surely Scripture’s principles are big enough to be followed without creating moralisms for couples to follow.
I also believe some marriage books create an atmosphere of hyper examination. We believe our marriages must be problem free, so we read a book and isolate all sorts of “problems” that weren’t problems before. My husband and I, for years, were encouraged to go to the Weekend to Remember conferences put on my Family Life. Not only were they at locations that were very expensive, we did not feel like we needed “refreshment.” My husband said jokingly (but not so jokingly) to the couple pressuring us to attend, “I don’t need to be given any new marital problems.”
Praise God, we have been happily married since 1987, with the typical bumps along the way. It was as we expected. And no marriage book we ever read helped us more than simply loving each other as we wanted to be loved, forgiving each other, and staying firmly fixed to God’s Word.
What do you do when you’re married to an Emerson? I read the towel story to my husband and he had the same point of view as the author.
Tonight while he was drying the baby after the bath, he thought the baby had peed on him and was freaking out about it. I said (in a calm reasonable tone) to diaper him next time before drying other places like hair. My husband dismissed my suggestion with a snorted “women” and continued drying the baby before diapering him.
When I (still calmly) confronted him about his contemptuous attitude towards women in general and me in particular, he ‘justified’ it by saying he didn’t/doesn’t respect anyone. (I can attest to this.) He does not see this as an issue and accused me of “whining because I wasn’t getting my way” when I pointed out that as his wife, I deserved at least some respect. (I wasn’t whining.)
Maybe one of the readers of TLHV who is older and wiser than I and has been married longer has an answer. What do you do when you’re married to an Emerson?
Why don’t you go through Sheila’s blog and find helpful tips? She has written thousands of articles on here. Just type it in the “search” option and start reading. There will always be problems in marriage. If you’re looking for a perfect spouse you will never find one. There will be trouble in marriage, the Bible tells us. Your job is to work through those troubles. And if you’re a follower of Christ you have the Holy Spirit assisting you along the way. So, go ahead and search her articles and you will find the answer to your question. It might not be the answer you WANT but it will be the answer you NEED.
Brievel, my heart aches for you. Please, please read James Dobson’s book “Love must be tough”. It might be very applicable to your situation. Especially when he talks about “the line of respect”. I found the book empowering. I pray that God will help you in your situation.
Goodness, I love you, Sheila. And just to back up what you’re saying. Here is the one Bible verse I always keep in mind, even as a single lady. “Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men.” – Colossians 3:23. If there are no male or female in Christ, ultimately women need to answer to Him and they will give an account to Him on their OWN, irrespective of their husbands.
And it never ceases to make me laugh when Christian men say “women are more easily deceived.” If anything, it’s men who are more easily deceived. Eve was tricked Adam was not. He fell because he WANTED too. Because last time i checked Eve fell BECAUSE she was deceived by a higher entity who comes as an angel of light, while Adam fell with no temptation! But he like most men was quick to blame the woman, yet God didn’t accept his blame-shifting. Eve fell because she was tricked Adam fell because he wanted too. That’s why he was held more responsible. And that’s why God didn’t need men first the first time in human reproduction for God himself to enter this world. It was ONLY God and women and it was the women seed not the man’s seed that crushed Satan in the end. Women have high value in the God of the Bible!
So true, Kate! Also, studies repeatedly show that more women are Christian than men, and that among Christians, women hold more orthodox views, and men are more likely to believe heresy. So the whole “women are more easily deceived” doesn’t work if you just look out at your pews on a Sunday morning!
Please read 1 Peter 3
It has great information on a wife’s biblical submission and how it actually will help her to glorify God when a husband is lead astray from the will of God.
Hi Emily, I have a whole post on how we misuse that passage to tell wives to enable sin, rather than to seek out Christ first. If you look at the Abraham and Sarah story, it doesn’t say what we think it does. You can read the post on 1 Peter 3 and Sarah here.
I understand and agree with your concerns about L&R but felt the same feelings when I read Sacred Marriage.
I have a question. I grew up in the 70s and 80s, (got married late-middle 80s), and I don’t recall ever reading anything like what this book espouses. In fact, the idea of Christ being the center of the home was what we heard. So, here’s my question…
Has there been a change in tone or emphasis in later years? Or was I just somehow “sheltered” from this way of thinking? I grew up in pretty conservative circles (C&ME and Baptist), but I honestly don’t remember ever hearing anything like this, and have a hard time believing that James Dobson would have espoused such a “man-centric” view of marriage. TIA
Hi Paul! Great question. And I would say that definitely, yes, there has been. It wasn’t like this in the 80s as much either. But in the 90s and 2000s there was a big conservative takeover of a lot of the bigger denominations, and specifically the denominations that controlled a lot of the Christian bookstores and conferences. And things did get a lot more male-centric. I could write a ton about that, but it’s not really my purview. But the Southern Baptists, for instance, recalled a lot of the single female missionaries, since they shouldn’t be teaching men. It’s been a difficult time, and I just hope we can get back to Jesus soon.
Thanks. I suspected as much, and it does seem to tie in with other trends I’ve observed. What I have observed (I’ve lived overseas for over 20 years, and only visit the States every 4 or 5 years) could probably be described thusly. Christianity in the West (and in particular, Evangelicalism in the States) is still fighting a culture war they lost long ago. And it seems that Evangelicals are trying to “restore” what today is sort of seen as their heyday–the 80s. The problem being that a conflation of “culture” with “gospel”.
The thing is, the harder they fight, the worse they make things. And one casualty (the biggest) is the family, and marital relationships. This is very scary. I do hope and pray that things turn around, but honestly, at this point, I don’t know. I’m glad there are folks like you bucking the trend.
Yes, I would very much agree with you there, Paul. They feel that recreating a certain culture is the same as spreading the gospel, and it isn’t. And it does hurt families.
I really struggle to see how you think that Emerson does not have a Jesus center on his book. Chapters 23 and 24 are very specifically about Jesus in lots of ways. In other parts of the book I remember him mentioning the Lord in various contexts.
Also, he does have a lot of focus on the scriptures throughout the book. My theological understanding is that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, so if the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write words- Christ was involved in that and as you focus on scripture you are focusing on Christ.
That’s a great question, and here’s how I’d explain it: You can talk about Jesus a lot. You can use a ton of Scriptures. It can all sound very good. But ultimately, what are you being told to do? In the book, what the wife is being told to do is to allow the husband to make the decisions; to say very little, even if he is “drinking or straying”; and to allow him to be selfish if that’s what he wants.
Now, you can use Scripture to make all of these things sound very Christian. But that’s taking verses–it’s not looking at the WHOLE of Scripture. Often when we look at individual verses, something can sound like that’s exactly what we should do! But if you look at the total message of Scripture, it’s clear that we’re interpreting those verses in the wrong way.
So, for instance, you can make a case looking at a few verses that a wife should do what her husband says. But when you look at the rest of Scripture, it’s clear that we should only ever be obeying God. Jesus must be our focus. Acts 5:28–we must obey God, not man. Acts 5–Sapphira is killed for going along with what her husband did. 1 Timothy 2:5–there is no mediator between us and God. Galatians 3:28–there is no male nor female in Christ Jesus; we are all one.
You see, we have to look at the whole of Scripture to interpret verses, rather than taking individual verses and building a whole theology around them. That’s where the book goes wrong. Instead of asking the wife to focus on Jesus, it tells the wife to suffer like Jesus did for the sake of her husband, and to follow her husband. So it SOUNDS like it’s talking about Jesus and putting Jesus at the center, but in the end, the will that is at the center is the husband’s will, not God’s will. I hope that makes sense!
thanks for commenting. I will reflect.
I’m really thankful for this series. I considered purchasing the book and thought it would be a good read but I’m glad I didn’t. I already struggle with condemnation – get some victory over it, then get into a slump etc and this book I think would just perpetuate that. Thanks Sheila!
You’re so welcome, Sarah!
With all due respect, your series of critiques on Love & Respect all seem to have one continual theme – a reinterpretation of biblical submission. In this blog, you assert that the author starts with men rather than Jesus for what you perceive as men getting what they want. But let’s examine for a moment what God wants.
In Ephesians 5:21, God desires a mutual submission between husband and wife. God then specifically instructs a woman to submit to her husband. Why do you think God followed His admonition of mutual submission with an emphatic that wives submit to their husbands without following up with the same emphasis to husbands?
It would seem that this act of submission is the pinnacle of the respect He calls her to demonstrate to her husband. Notice that God describes and summarizes in the verses which follow. Men are instructed to love their wives essentially as Jesus loved His bride – sacrificially – which likewise is the pinnacle of love that God calls him to demonstrate. Know of any women who would have a problem submitting to a man that loved her like this?
Then when we find the summary verse (v. 33), can we explain why God, who essentially twice mentions his desire for submission in regards to the wife’s attitude toward the husband, says nothing of submission here? Rather, He emphasizes reverence. Think God could have inspired husbands love your wives and wives love your husbands? Think He could have reemphasized submission one more time since He already mentioned it twice? I’m sure He could, but He chose to emphasize reverence. So it would seem that if the author is emphasizing respect, he is focusing on what God wants for it was God Himself that commanded it.
The starting point is correct, because it shows a oneness that is entirely biblical. A wife that exercises respect to her husband in obedience to God, and a husband willing to sacrifice all for his wife demonstrates their complete surrender to God and submission to one another.
You haven’t really defined submission, though, Dave. Nobody disputes that wives are to submit. We all are to submit! Submission is very important.
The issue is whether submission means obeying someone’s authority (a definition which clearly doesn’t make sense given that the word submission must mean the same thing in verse 21 and verse 22 of Ephesians 5. It can’t mean authority in one place but NOT mean authority in another). God very clearly said that we are to obey God, rather than man. So submission does not mean that–but Eggerichs says it does. And that’s the central issue.