When there’s abuse in marriage, are both parties to blame? Or is just the abuser to blame?
I honestly wish I didn’t have to ask that question, but last week a commenter left this comment on my post about emotionally destructive marriages:
I believe almost ALL issues in a marriage are created by both. The pastor could have used some more tactful words, but ultimately, he had a point: if one person is having an affair, it may be a sign of some underlying issues both partners have to work on, such as creating more intimacy and communication. I also read how your wife did not accept any compliments, etc. I know how so many women sabotage the efforts of their husbands and in the end it spirals out of control. Sometimes causing the man to be abusive and then all the fingers are pointing to him. I think it is RARE that an abusive husband is abusive in isolation. If the woman constantly rejects him, criticises or (subtly) controls his every move, then I would get angry, too! So I think marriage issues are often a mirror for what is going on with each individual. I cannot stand it when ONE of the two is fully blamed. It is rarely so.
This really ticked me off, and when I shared it on social media, it ticked off pretty much everyone there, too.
But I do think that this attitude is still a prevalent one in Christian circles, and so I’d like to take today and try to debunk it.
Being abusive is very different from getting angry occasionally
Many people have short tempers, and that is very wrong. But abuse is in another category. Abusive people are trying to control others. They want others to do what they say, and they feel angry when someone goes against them.
Thus, the only way to pacify an abusive person is to not have any original thoughts and not do anything that you want to do. In other words, you have to cease being you.
If you have to walk on eggshells to avoid setting someone off, then the problem is not that one day you cracked an egg. The problem is that the person is trying to control you. That is wrong. There is no excuse for that. And no amount of mollifying the person can change that.
An abusive person revels in the abuse itself
Even if someone does endeavour to empty themselves of any original thought, and does walk on eggshells to avoid provoking the abusive person, the abuser will often look for the tiniest infraction in order to have an “excuse” to blow up. An abusive person feels strong and powerful when he (or she) is able to hurt another. When they are feeling insecure in other areas of their lives, they will look for an excuse to overpower their spouse in order to feel in control again. Or they may simply be narcissists and may revel in the power itself, for no reason other than their evil narcissism.
The impetus for the abuse, you see, does not lie in the actions of the person being abused. It lies in the distorted sense of power and self that the abuser has. If the spouse was absolutely perfectly compliant, they would still be abused, because the abuser needs the rush that comes from feeling in control.
Being the catalyst for an abusive action does not mean that you are to blame
In one sense the guy is right. Sometimes we do provoke abusive behaviour by what we do. It does not necessarily mean, however, that we are to blame.
For instance, Jesus was crucified because of what He did. He healed on the Sabbath. He told off the Pharisees. He invited people to know God personally, rather than just follow rules, and this upset the religious authorities. He was challenging their power, and they killed Him for it.
Does this mean that Jesus was to blame?
Here’s another little tidbit. The most dangerous time in an abusive relationship, the time when a woman is most likely to be attacked or killed, is when a woman separates from an abusive partner or spouse. Does that mean that if she separates, and he then kills her, that she is to blame? Did she do something wrong? Should she have stayed with him to avoid provoking him?
Sometimes righteous actions can provoke evil people to do evil things.
The Christians who are in prison around the world are there because they are preaching the gospel. Are they therefore to blame?
If a person is trying to control you, and you resist that control and enforce boundaries and try to protect your physical, emotional, and sexual safety, you are doing a good thing. You are precious to God, and He doesn’t want you controlled. If you are then hurt, you are not to blame. The person who does the abuse is to blame. And that’s because:
Jesus lays the blame for sin at the sinner’s feet
Repeatedly in the Gospels Jesus rejects excuses that others make for their sin. He says in Matthew 5:27-30:
Matthew 5:27-30
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
He said that women aren’t to blame for men’s lust; men are to blame. We are responsible for our own sin.
Look, in a relationship, sometimes we will do things and others will react with anger. The commenter is right about that. But no one is perfect! Yet not all relationships are abusive. That means that you can live with an imperfect person and not be abusive. The problem is not with the imperfect person; the problem is with the abuser.
As one person commented when I posted this to Facebook:
Save self-defence, there is never an excuse to be violent or to hurt another person, especially a loved one. And there is never an excuse for emotional abuse whereby one uses the silent treatment, insults, passive aggressive behaviour, yelling, or financial abuse to control another person.
There just isn’t.
And if someone is doing that to you, you are not to blame. Being more submissive won’t help. Walking on eggshells won’t help. Learning his (or her) love language and trying to communicate better won’t help. The problem, you see, is not a relationship problem. It is not a problem that the two of you need to solve. It is a problem that the abuser, and the abuser alone, is causing.
To Learn More, See 9 Thoughts That Can Change Your Marriage!
Sometimes in church we hear messages about how to make a marriage work that actually make an abusive marriage WORSE.
It’s time we started thinking differently about marriage!
All too often when women are in abusive relationships they seek out Christian counsellors, and those counsellors are so focused on saving the marriage that they look at how both parties may be to blame. They talk about better communication strategies and going on more date nights. This will not make things better. This simply feeds the abuser’s narcissism.
If you are in abusive situation, please see a counsellor who understands the dynamics of abuse, and who understands that when God said “he hates divorce” it didn’t mean that God forbids divorce. It meant that He was angry at the men who were abandoning their wives. And if your husband is abusing you, that is exactly what he has done.
Let’s get this right. And next time you hear someone arguing that someone can provoke an abuser, speak up. Say something. We need to stop this lie from spreading.
Have you ever heard excuses for abuse like that? What would be your reply? Let’s talk in the comments!
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 27 years and happily married for 22! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 8 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
Exactly!
For non abusive situations I would add:
Even if a wife did something that provoked the husband to anger does not justify the angry reaction. We now have two sins, the wife ought to repent of her sinful action and the husband ought to repent of his sinful reaction.
The sinful action of the wife might make the sinful reaction of the husband more understandable, but it DOES NEVER JUSTIFY his sin. In a way one could even say if somebody is provoking you, you‘re not supposed to be provoked (As a Christian). This applies to all relationships. It‘s called taking responsibility for your own actions. Unfortunately our language often has built in blame shifting (sentences like „you are so annoying“ instead of „I am annoyed by what you did“, or „you make me angry“ instead of „I am angry at you“)
This of course can be applied to abuse, too. The abuser ought to own his abusive behavior, which they usually won’t, which does set the victim free to walk away from the relationship to safety. It is liberating to understand that you are not responsible for someone else’s actions or reactions. We are all sinners so there will always be sin on both sides of a relationship, but the sin of an abuse victim is not the cause of the sin of the abuser. He would have abused the victim even if it was a perfect sinless person.
Very well said! Agree completely.
two wrongs don’t make a right action …..
Lady Di, I never said that two wrongs would make anything right. I said that as per my family friend’s own words there are also guilty ladies, or should I say better lady… Please don’t misunderstand or misinterpret my words. Paul.
I personally have a friend, now divorced lady who told me that it used to give her crazy feeling of satisfaction to make her ex upset and taunt him with words like: “…..so ,hit me, hit me finally, I know you to weak to do it. You’re weakling, chicken, not man.” Then when he finally slapped her, she felt victorious. These are exact words of my friend. Sheila, I love your website and wisdom given to you. I often give your link to my mentees, but in this you’re wrong. There are ladies who ARE guilty.
Sounds to me like she was abusive and he would have done well to walk away from the relationship. They both stepped into sin at the point that he took the bait. It’s not often talked about in our culture, but yes, men can be abused too. How an abused person responds to the person doling out the abuse is all that’s in their control.
Sheila, I know I am always singing this same old song, but I have to sing it again. No woman is responsible for a man’s CHOICE to lust. But a woman can absolutely be responsible for trying to CAUSE a man to lust. And that is HER sin. I think when we are constantly focusing solely on the male side of lust and the fact that the men who lust are totally responsible for their lust, we unintentionally give women a free pass to act and dress however they want because they aren’t to blame if a man chooses to lust after them. What we should be reinforcing though is the woman’s responsibility for intentionally trying to cause that lust. And we cannot pretend that these women don’t exist or that they are just a small minority that are rarely seen. I do believe that every time we bring up the male side of lust we should bring up the female side of lust and vice versa. We should be calling both men and women to a higher standard of conducting themselves and respecting others. I know this was only a minor point in this article but I think it’s too important to pass over.
And I am NOT saying all women or even that most women are out there are trying to cause men to lust wherever they go. I’m saying that SOME women do just like SOME men are out there choosing to lust after women.
Hi Samantha, I think I covered that in my post on being a stumbling block. I did acknowledge that we can have the wrong motives when we dress, and I proposed three questions that can help us ascertain if our motives are good ones.
I still think, though, that it’s best to steer clear of talk about enticing lust. It’s better to talk about “who are you dressing for?” and “what is the impression that you are giving?” When we use language about enticing to lust, it can be very shaming and very damaging, because it causes women who are just simply shaped very voluptuously to feel as if there’s something wrong or sinful about their bodies. I’m doing a post on the messages that big-busted girls heard growing up soon, and I think those things are heartbreaking. We have to make sure that we’re not contributing to that, and I think the questions that I suggest asking help clarify the issue without using body-shaming language.
I totally agree with your strategy of asking those questions. When my daughter gets older I plan on using those questions. Nothing I said contained a hint of body shaming language though. I never mentioned bodies or their shapes. I mentioned motives.
Here is the thing. What if a man said that this statement made him feel shame simply for being a man:
“He said that women aren’t to blame for men’s lust; men are to blame. We are responsible for our own sin.”
You would say to that man, ” I was only talking about men who lust. I wasn’t talking about all men.” There was nothing wrong with your statement. What’s wrong is that man’s projection of your statement onto himself and manhood as a whole. And this is something women have a very bad habit of doing. We have ALL done it. Our husband says something like, “you look great today!” And we say, “so you’re saying I didn’t look great yesterday?!” We project intention onto their statement that they didn’t actually intend. And quite frankly women need to stop doing stuff like this. If a person can’t mention the term “modesty” without a mob of women getting all bent out of shape and crying out “body shaming!” There is something REALLY wrong with that in my opinion. We don’t feel the need to tip toe around the male lust issue in this same way. We call it what it is. A sin. And we don’t sugar coat it nor should we. We certainly shouldn’t make claims like it is “every man’s battle” just like we shouldn’t call intentional seductive dressing and actions “every woman’s battle”. That would be absolutely absurd and false. We need to teach women how to separate truths from their emotional projections onto the truth and from the lies people have manipulated them into believing in the past.
Yes, your questions are a marvelous strategy. I LOVE them and quite frankly I wish you would link that article every time you bring up the male lust issue. Because I do see a lot more emphasis placed on the fact that some men choose to lust and a serious lack of emphasis placed on reinforcing those very good questions women (and even men) should be asking themselves to help them stay accountable for their own actions too.
I agree, Samantha! Well said.
This is so true! It goes both ways. Men are 100% responsible to guard their eyes but we can make ist harder or help them by how we dress. While I’m totally against shaming, I’m sad to see how lightly women treat this responsibility nowadays.
I was in an abusive marriage and experienced a lot of secondary spiritual abuse from the church we attended at the time. (Praise God I found a new church that loved, supported and walked with me through my healing).
Two things that jumped out at me from the commentors response what that he seems to equate being angry with abuse .. “I would be angry too.”
Anger and abuse are not the same thing. You can be angry and choose not to be abusive, I do it with my family all the time. “Be angry and sin not.”
The second thing is the assumption that abuse is a marriage issue. It’s not. That’s an individual’s issue that needs to be resolved before you can begin to address any marriage issues.
You can get the best marriage advice and counseling but that won’t change an abuser. In fact it often makes the abuse worse.
We are only responsible for our actions and choices. If you find yourself in an unsafe situation it’s not your fault that someone chooses to sin against you, ever!
Thank you for that, Latoya! And I’m so glad you’re in a good church now. That’s wonderful.
I just want to pick up one thing especially that you said–sometimes the typical marriage advice DOES make abuse worse, because it puts so much onus on the abused to fix the “communication problems” and understand the abuser. If they become more submissive, too, it fuels the abuse. I’ve written about this before–one size fits all marriage advice doesn’t work.
Thanks for sharing your story!
Thanks Sheila for writing about this. When I was being abused it was very easy for me to be confused about what was really going on. I was being lied to, manipulated and my words were twisted so much that I didn’t know what was real, true or false. And I was constantly trying to figure what I was doing wrong. I have a sensitive conscience anyways and was always examining my behavior, figuring out where I was “off” and working to do better. I read a lot of Christian advice on making my marriage better and took it for granted that what they said was true because these people were Christians. I look at some of that “wisdom” now and shake my head (ex love and respect book- so terrible for abusive marriages!). I was really naive.
You said” When they are feeling insecure in other areas of their lives, they will look for an excuse to overpower their spouse in order to feel in control again“. This is so true! I remember him coming home after work sometimes, and he would make comments putting me down. What I had done that day had very little to do with it. Eventually I figured out that something had happened that day that made him feel insecure. The only way for him to feel better was to put me in the “one down position” so he would feel that he was in the “one up position”. The only way he could feel good about himself when he was insecure was to make me feel bad about myself. In fact, he had to be in a one up position with everyone or he didn’t feel good/in control. It lead to him putting a lot of people down and he could rarely be happy for others when they did well or had success. It was really sad and messed up. I’m thankful that I’m no longer dealing with that.
I’m glad you’re not dealing with that anymore, too! I’m sorry that you had such bad advice when your heart was obviously in the right place, just trying to love. I’ve written before about how that “love and respect” thing can be really misused, too. You’re so right!
Thank you so much for dealing with this! Two of my very close family members recently separated from abusive relationships. One of them went to her pastor (whose son happened to be her husband) and was told that she was likely provoking the abuse. We never dreamed this would happen in our good Christian family. She did everything right, she saved herself for her husband and married a young man we thought was going to take very good care of her. Thankfully, she has since separated and divorced and God has been helping her heal emotionally and spiritually. As a young pastor’s wife, I have learned through this that it is VITALLY important for churches to know how to deal with these situations appropriately. There is so much damaging mis-information abounding in Christian circles and unfortunately, I am learning, abuse in “Christian” relationships is far more common that we would like to admit. Every church and pastor needs this information if the church is supposed to be a haven of hope for the hurting!
P.S. During this time, I purchased your book 9 Thoughts That Can Change Your Marriage and we leaned heavily on your advice to help her make it through the situation. We can not thank you enough!!
Oh, that’s so great that my book could help! I’m really glad. I do think that there’s a big misinformation campaign out there that emphasizes the totally wrong thing with regards to what God wants for marriage. He doesn’t want a relationship where the man always gets his way. God wants a relationship where GOD gets His way. And yet too often we stress the husband’s will and make the wife do what the husband says, ignoring what God would say. It really is tragic!
The commenter who left that asinine comment is simply idiot. Sorry, but true. I have seen his comments here and on other blogs as well.
First off, abuse is NOT a marriage issue. Abuse is an individual issue which can only be resolved when the individual chooses to take responsibility for their problem and get help, much like an alcoholic or drug addict. It doesn’t matter what their spouse does or doesn’t do, the abuser will abuse. Period.
Second, someone can be angry but not become abusive. We all will at one time or another get upset or angry with our spouse, but not everyone chooses to allow their anger to become sinful behavior like abuse.
A victim of abuse no more provokes their abuser to abuse, then a rape victim provokes their rapist to rape. Someone who is violent will be violent no matter what their victim does or doesn’t do. But sadly, yes, this viewpoint is too prevalent in many churches that a wife does something to cause the abuse.
I was often told that if I submitted more, respected him in all things and spoke quietly without becoming angry, he would change. Guess what? My abusive ex never did change, even to this day almost 10 years after he walked out after 20 years of marriage.
Victims of abuse should never be blamed for abuse nor have the burden of changing their abuser or holding together a broken marriage placed on their shoulders, instead abusers should be cast out as evil ones and treated as non-believers until there is proof they have truly repented and changed.
Sadly a reminder I need to hear. My husband is an alcoholic, I have finally started setting boundaries and speaking up about the verbal abuse and how his threats of “we are done” hurt me, destroy trust and intimacy. However, I’m often met with more anger, and comments like well if you “didn’t run your mouth”, if you respected me, had more sex with me. I have also tried to explain that when he verbally abuses me, it destroys intimacy and all I am met with is “why are you punishing me? Why are you using your vagina to control me?It’s so easy for me to just give into his lies and to be submissive, to not say anything about the hurtful comments, (He usually does not remember), and to just roll over and have sex. I need to remind myself it’s not my fault and I’m not called to blindly submit to a husband who is wrought with sin, that I answer to God, not him. I still hope and pray for our marriage and his salvation but I don’t have to be plagued by guilt.
How do you rebuild trust after the abuser gets help and the abuse has stopped???
Very, very slowly. And the abuser must have an accountability relationship with someone and likely ongoing counselling. And there have to be clear boundaries, with consequences when those are crossed. I hope you can find a counsellor who can help you set up some of those boundaries.
Having lived under a narcissist father I can easily define the difference between reacting to negative actives from my spouse and true abuse. Using the example the questioner used a wife might be nagging or controlling thus frustrating her husband into a one time outburst or anger. An abuser reacts, explodes, and gets angry when you do nothing wrong at all or as Shelia mentioned when you step the smallest fraction over of their imaginary line. Salt & pepper shakers in the wrong place at the dinner table are one example I recall. Giving too much time and attention to the handicapped newborn baby. There is no “It takes to tango” when to comes to abuse.
EXACTLY:
“An abusive person revels in the abuse itself”
unfortunately i have abusive parents and two abusive older siblings: they just pick up after my parents behavior…….. :/
I’ve walked with several friends through abusive relationships. It’s so hard for them to leave the relationship. There’s so much confliction in them, because they simultaneously need that person, but hate being with them. And then there’s the pattern from the abuser of abusing the person, then saying they are sorry, and then placing the blame on the victim so they actually apologize for making the abuser hurt them. It’s just really vicious and hard to get away from. I find it hard as a marriage blogger to always be sharing about ways to have a better marriage, and so often, the spouse that is being abused genuinely thinks that if they do what I suggest, it’ll help. And even if you preface advice with, if you’re in an abusive relationship, get out, they don’t even realize they are in an abusive relationship. Maybe they know something isn’t right and they really feel wronged, but they end up down playing it. It’s so hard to convince them to get help, because they get threatened for saying anything that would make them look negative. It’s such a hard situation to be in.
So true, Keelie! And you’re right about marriage advice, too. Usually the abused person tries everything they can to make the marriage better, without realizing that doing all these things that would work in normal marriages actually make things worse! It really is sad.
I’ve been married for 28 years. For the first 24 years, I experienced verbal and emotional abuse (with one incident of physical abuse) at the hands of my wife. I’m happy to report that our marriage has been free from abuse for the past four years. I’m 100% certain it will continue “abuse-free”. I shared my story (omitting the physical abuse) in the comments section of Wifey Wednesday: Can We Talk About Male Victims of Emotional Abuse (Aug 16, 2017).
Blame is not a helpful paradigm. Abusive behaviour is inexcusable. However, assigning blame is not accurate. Nor is it a catalyst for positive change. Each person plays a role in the negative dynamic that results in the abuse. Saying the abuser is 100% to blame prevents the victim/survivor from doing the difficult but necessary introspection, examining their contribution to the abusive situation. And then changing themselves, their behaviours and actions so they consistently no longer tolerate the abuse.
Within 6 weeks of implementing my plan, my wife stopped her abusive behaviour for good. I believe if I hadn’t stopped blaming my wife and hadn’t done the tough personal work, I would still be tolerating abuse, from either my wife or a future wife.
I think you’re making a really important point, BCMan, about what KINDS of actions may be laid at the abused’s feet. For instance, the way that we are to blame may simply be that we aren’t setting boundaries and are tolerating it. That is an important distinction to make. We’re not responsible for the abuse, but we are responsible for our response to it. I know many people who come out of abusive relationships have had to learn to answer the question: “What in me made me tolerate this for so long? What in me made me attracted to someone who would treat me this way? What in me made it difficult for me to walk away?” In other words, it’s not “what did I do to cause the abuse”, but instead, “why did i not do what I could to draw boundaries”?
Now, sometimes it is very, very difficult to draw boundaries–when you’re afraid for the safety of your children or that he may get custody; when you are so defeated that you don’t think you are worth anything; when you genuinely are afraid for your physical safety. But I know many abuse victims (both male and female) have learned that they can take steps to grow that then make it so that they won’t be victims again. And that is an important emotional journey to go through.
Sometimes relationships are mutually abusive. Sadly it often leads to the chicken vs the egg argument. Both are wrong in their abuse toward each other. Both need Jesus and the willingness to allow the Spirit to work in their lives. Both need counseling and to stop pointing the finger at their spouse and work in love toward righting their behavior and their relationship with God, and work toward reconciliation. One may stop abusive behavior but have an even harder struggle trying to rebuild when the other continues sinful behavior and/or won’t acknowledge their past abuse, but rather continues to hold contempt for the spouse who has changed for the better. Not easy for either spouse, but with God, all things are possible. Reconciliation is possible if both are willing to seek God as their guide and wiling to work on themselves and not to change the other person.
I agree sometimes it’s mutual. I agree reconciliation is possible if both seek God! But I also think it’s possible if one seeks God! Especially if it’s the husband!
I think it takes time to prove changes are real, so if you’re the one changed and waiting as it sounds you are …. don’t give up hope. Keep on. What do you have to lose!? Either way you’re getting healthier!
But also the husband is tasked with leading his wife and family. Sometimes that’s a burden for the wife when he doesn’t. Sometimes maybe all the time it’s a burden for him. I feel excited for you Bc you seem to ready to make changes, you are in process. (We wives long for this). You’re ahead of the game so to speak. You need to give your ALL and not back down for her to trust you again IMO. Stay on message, stop blaming her, love her genuinely NOT to manipulate her and just see what happens. The BEST marriages I’ve seen are ones when husbands ADORE their wives. Not in a cheesy sense but a respectful way. Are you respecting your wife and ALL she does for you!? It starts with You….
Perhaps in some instances you have two spouses abusing each other, but I would venture to say that is rare.
What I believe often happens is when one spouse is abusive the victim of that abuse may often react in ways which could be viewed as abusive behavior. For example, yelling or even hitting like a slap on the arm, not a full force punch in the face. And while these things are not okay, it can be simply a response from the victim towards the abuser out of frustration of not being heard when they try to explain how the abusive behavior/action hurts them. I know, I’ve been there as as victim of abuse. There would be those rare times when I simply blew after months of psychological abuse and while my reaction of screaming at my then-husband was not right, it was also not abusive, it was a reaction that occurred very infrequently and with me repenting of my behavior and asking for forgiveness. My sons too would have those moments, but mostly they would hit something in private in their room, like my oldest son putting his fist through his bedroom wall after the abusive hateful remarks his father would say to him. Was his action wrong? Of course! And he came to me afterwards and was sincerely sorry for what he had done.
And unfortunately, this is where many Christians will admonished a wife who is being abused that her actions are no better than her husband’s and therefore, she needs to forgive him and move on. But that just is not true! Abuse is very different than someone losing their temper once in a blue moon and being repentant of it. Abuse is ongoing and the abuser usually will not acknowledge, let alone take responsibility for his actions.
God can restore anything He wishes to, including a destructive marriage, but only if both people are willing to allow Him. It takes two people to make a marriage and one person alone cannot change the other or hold a broken together on their own. And I believe that sometimes, God chooses to allow something destructive to be completely destroyed so something better can be built from the ashes, but it doesn’t always mean a marriage will be brought back together if the abuser chooses to hard their heart against God and continue hurting their spouse and children.
Thank you, Sheila, for taking a comment that could be confusing and crazy-making for some and writing a whole blog post about it. You saw it as a red flag and you tackled it to the ground! I was blown away by your perspective, as I found myself thinking ok, I can see this guy’s point but I’m ticked but I get it but but…. You just nailed it point by point and it made complete sense.
Also helpful in the comments where people hashed out blame and you responded ab the responsibility to set boundaries, AND how that can be difficult.
We NEED this kind of bold honesty backed by wisdom and knowledge of the Word with compassion. You and Leslie Vernick are cut from the same cloth. A compliment to you both! I continue to be amazed that God has raised up you women in a time when we really need to hear the TRUTH from a woman’s perspective, not sugar-coated, not shrinking back, bold honest brave and wise. (*There are men and pastors out there who share your vision for sure!)
I’m just really thankful for you and your ministry! I wonder what the original commenter thinks about this post? I wonder in a genuinely curious way not a drama way. I wondered at first if his wife abused him, but to be honest his posture did not come across as an abused man. His posturing is very familiar to me in reformed Presbyterian circles (which is why I struggled with it until I read your response to it). I wonder if he has been accused of being abusive? If he responds in humility, that would be amazing. God is all about restoration – of relationships with each other and with Him! It’s never too late in this life to lay down your pride and listen to the Holy Spirit. Or at least be willing to hear another perspective!
I am finally getting the true picture of marriage God intended from reading your posts and Leslie’s and others. There is so much LESS ROOM for the things that seemed “normal” to tolerate as a wife. It’s all so clear in my mind! Clarity, safety and sanity have risen to the top of my list instead of quiet doormat submission, holiness over happiness, and til death do you part. Yes, submission and overlooking annoying habits and dealing with sin is so important, as is holiness over worldly happiness, and we do make vows through the thick and thin.
But the church as a whole has gravely mistaken this model as applicable to deplorable situations. My counselor always says “Things in the dark have power; bring them into the Light!”
I stayed quiet for too long out of respect for my husband. I didn’t want to shame him. I stayed quiet Bc my only options (so I thought at the time) of counseling were his own dad, uncle or youth leader (all pastors, all so close to HIS comfort zone, no, that’s being generous, it was a ridiculous situation). I stayed quiet Bc of fear. I was taught counseling was for weak people in serious trouble. If I had only found my voice and reached out for help when I had a flicker of “this isn’t right”… we wouldn’t be in this desperate miserable situation we’re in.
I didn’t intend to write so much… I just really loved this post. I think it will help so many women, especially. Thank you for being brave and not backing down!
Oh, Kim, thank you for sharing your story and your perspective! I’m so glad that this could help you. And I’m glad you’re not staying quiet now. Your husband can’t grow to be like Christ if everyone continues to tolerate ungodly behaviour. I’m glad that you’re bringing it out to the light! That’s wonderful. And thank you for your encouragement, too!
I am an abused spouse who just got free. It took me 17 years, not once did I provoke my husband to abuse me or my innocent children. The only part that I took part was allowing it too long. That was the only part of it takes two – It took two, one to abuse and one to make the healthy boundary. The person who made the comment is sadly most likely still under the control of the abuser and has been told to think this way, so pray for this person to learn about healthy boundaries and be free from abuse them self.
Yes, exactly, Natasha–that’s what I mean. When we say “it takes two”, really the only part the abused spouse plays is allowing it to continue by not making a healthy boundary (although, again, there may be good reasons like fear for the children’s safety or fear for her own if she leaves, since that is the most dangerous time) And I do think that analyzing what it is about you that may have drawn you to an abusive man is useful as well, if only to understand why you have a hard time making boundaries and to prevent it from happening again. But that’s the only part where you play a role.
By the way, I’m so glad that you got free! And I’m so sorry that you were caught in that for so long.
Women are just as likely to be physically violent toward their spouse as men. Historically, women rulers have initiated war more often than men. Female voting always leads to welfare and socialism. Weaponized family courts make marriage a bad deal. Solomon said he found one honest man in one thousand, but not one honest woman among them all. The bible is true. Solomon was right.
Just letting this through so that people can see what’s out there. Don’t worry; he’s banned now. But this is what’s out there.
And Jason–you may want to do research on ER visits and deaths due to domestic violence. It’s overwhelmingly man on woman. Yes, women may slap just as often, but they do not do nearly the level of harm. Get your facts straight.
Large scale surveys also show that women are more honest than men; that women are more generous than men; and that women are more empathetic and caring than men.
Family courts probably are a bad deal for men with your views, you’re right. And that’s the way it should be. You should not be anywhere near raising children.
I wrote a reply on the Facebook post of this but I had to delete it because he sees what I post. I think I deleted it just as you commented so I missed seeing what you said. I’m the one who left a 20 year abusive marriage to a minister and remarried someone who told me he understood why I was beaten and that I shouldn’t have gotten divorced but stayed as I wasn’t in danger of losing my life. I’m still married to the second guy but have moved to a different state. Do you remember what you replied to me? Am I wrong to leave the constant lectures and anger? I just can’t deal with that anymore. I’d like to keep him as a long distance friend but am never moving back.
Rene, I just said that I’m so, so sorry. That’s just awful. I think you need to do what you need to do to get safe, and living with someone who blames you for abuse is not safe. I’d suggest finding a licensed counselor who is trained in abuse trauma to help you walk through this and grow some boundaries. It sounds like you’re making good decisions and you’re starting to be able to recognize wolves, so that’s good!
And again, I’m so sorry.