As a Canadian, I tend to understand Americans pretty well I think.
I travel throughout the U.S. a lot, I read American news, and I even have an American passport!
But there are few things that strike me as very, very odd. And one of those things is America’s maternity policy (or rather, their LACK of maternity leave.) Last week I came across a few news articles detailing the push for more maternity leave, and I thought, “Well, duh!”
It was only a few years ago that I even realized that in the U.S. you’re only guaranteed two weeks of paid leave after the birth of a baby, and 12 weeks of unpaid leave (is that really true?)
And maybe most Americans find that normal. But I thought today I would let you know how it works in Canada. I certainly don’t think America should emulate everything Canada does, and the point of this post is not “Canada is better!” For instance, I completely agree that Canadians don’t pull our weight militarily. Even though our troops are excellent (and my son-in-law is one of them!), we just don’t invest enough in our military because we know America will protect us. So I think both countries have much to learn from each other. And on this one issue, I find the debate a little bizarre. So here’s how it works in the Great White North, and I don’t see any reason Americans couldn’t do it as well.
When Rebecca was born 23 years ago, Canada had just moved to our one year parental leave policy.
Up until then, it had been six months I think (it’s hard for me to remember that far back). People pay into the employment insurance system (well, really unemployment insurance, but they call it “employment insurance” because it sounds nicer.) Once you’ve worked the equivalent of 600 hours either in the last year or since your last time using EI, you’re now eligible for EI benefits. Parental leave gives you 57% of your income, up to a certain maximum, for up to 52 weeks, providing you plan to return to work afterwards (it can be a different job, but you have to promise to be returning to work). Your employer must keep your job open for you. Either parent can take the leave, and you can also choose to split it. My cousin is self-employed, but her husband works for a hospital. So after she had her kids, her husband took some parental leave time so they could both be home and he could help out after her C-section.
Because I had been working as a research assistant in my grad school program when I had Rebecca, I had been contributing to EI. So I decided to take the year off, even though I could easily have just finished my degree. I put my scholarships on hold, and got a whole year to enjoy my baby before I finished my degree and did some more work as a research assistant.
With Katie I wasn’t eligible because I hadn’t been contributing into EI beforehand. However, Keith took two weeks off because he was eligible to take pat leave. So you are eligible for the leave EVEN IF your spouse is a stay-at-home parent.
Parental leave is not like welfare where the government just gives money. It comes out of the EI system, which is funded through employer and employee contributions. You pay into the system, so you’re eligible to take money out of the system when you need it. And Canadians, on a pretty bipartisan basis, have decided that mat leave (or pat leave) is a worthy cause.
We have a new rule now where you can stretch out that leave to 18 months if you want, but your benefits remain the same. So you don’t get more money; you just get lower payments for longer, and your job stays open for you.
Some employers will also top up maternity leave. I hear that Queen’s University, for instance, where my husband used to be employed, will top up to 100% of your salary if you agree to return to work at Queen’s (and if you don’t, then you have to pay the extra money back).
But isn’t that hard on employers?
To a certain extent of course it’s disruptive for employers. But here’s the thing: It is much easier to train someone else to take over a job they’ll be doing for a year than to get someone to fill in for four weeks or twelve weeks. If a new mom takes off for 10 weeks, as often happens in the U.S. I guess, then chances are their job won’t be filled. They’ll just rely on other employees to do extra work and cover during those 10 weeks, which leaves other employees kind of resentful of the new mom anyway.
This way someone actually has time to be trained and can actually fill in.
Yes, the employer portion of EI will be higher when you create a new benefit, to be sure. But it’s spread over all workers, not just women or women of child-bearing age, so there’s a large pool.
But isn’t it hard on people who do a job for a year and then have to leave it when the new mom comes back to work?
I suppose. But on the other hand, mat leave positions (that’s what we call them) are highly sought after. They’re only a year long, and often people have a year that they want to work before moving onto the next thing. My son-in-law Connor, for instance, was initially hired for a mat leave position as an accountant, which was fine with him because he just wanted to work for a year or two before going to grad school. He was looking for something temporary anyway.
I know other people who have taken mat leave positions because their spouse was finishing up school, and within a year they’d be moving to a different city. It’s hard to get an employer to hire you for just a year, but if there are mat leave positions–then that’s a win-win!
Mat leave positions give new employees a chance to get work experience
Mat leave positions are often great entry-level jobs, too. They give someone experience, because employers are often more willing to take a chance on an inexperienced or young employee because they know they can get rid of them a year later, rather than having them stuck on the payroll. So it’s a great way for a young person to get their foot in the door.
And if they do a good job? Chances are that employer will suddenly have another job “open up” to keep that employee. That’s what happened with Connor. Even though he was only hired for a mat leave position, within three months of working he was told that he had a permanent job because they liked him so much. They’ll still hire the original employee back, of course, but they also offered a new position to Connor.
I just simply cannot imagine having to leave my baby and go back to work when that baby is only 10 weeks old.
They’re not even on a schedule yet! They’re not sleeping through the night and you’re exhausted. You have to pump constantly to keep up your milk supply. And that baby is so, so tiny. It would be so difficult to hand them over to someone else to care for. I think a newborn really needs its mother.
I tend to be pretty conservative on most issues, especially fiscal ones. I totally agree that government debt is a huge issue. But family leave policy, to me, is a no brainer. Families need to be supported. Babies need their moms, and moms need their babies. Having parents who bond well with their babies is better for society as a whole. And we need to be making it easier for people to have kids, because demographically, we do need it.
So I hope that America can see this as a bipartisan issue where hopefully you can find some agreement. Because this stuff matters.
Did you ever have to return to work when you had a newborn? What was it like? And I know I have lots of Aussie and British readers, and I’d love it if you all chimed in, too. What are your family leave policies? Let’s talk in the comments!
(And, please, let’s not do a Democrat vs. Republican thing in the comments or make it all political, and certainly not about Trump. I just want to talk about the ISSUE of parental leave, okay? Let’s make it nice, not ugly! I’ll delete any derogatory comments about individual politicians or different political parties!)
UPDATE: I decided to check the numbers so we’d have something concrete to talk about (imagine that?). Anyway, in Canada, the employee contributes 1.63% of their income, and the employer contributes 2.28%. So the employer basically pays a tax of 2.28% on each employee’s pay. The maximum employer contribution is $1,170, and the maximum employee contribution is $836, but that’s only if the employee makes $52000 or more. If they make less, it’s not that much. So while it is a tax on employers, it’s not like it’s 20% or even 10%.
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 29 years and happily married for 24! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 7 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
Here in Israel it’s like 3 months paid leave if you worked the last year and I think you can stretch it to 6 months but not paid. It’s crazy to me to see how babies are put in childcare system at 3 months, many women return to jobs they don’t even like just to keep the position. It’s a mindset thing and I am glad to live counter cultural to that. Most mothers are so trained to think that they will go crazy staying home with their babies and that they don’t know what to do and that it benefits the kids to be in the system (which is ridiculous) plus for women with lower paying jobs it is actually more expensive to work then to stay home because childcare up until age 3 costs almost all of minimum wage, then you need second car, etc.
In Germany where I grew up the benefits are huge compared to most countries, you can take 1 year paid leave and stretch it to 3 years I believe, lower pay for longer. But people there don’t want to get married or have kids… a different mindset issue.
As a whole I think western countries need to return to the mindset that the nuclear family is the core of a healthy society and that the parental care is the best system for kids to grow up. There is value in supplemental care and education from the societal system but the main focus must lay on the nuclear family. Good leave policies can support that, but the main point is mind set. Because even if there are zero benefits those who value family more then career or money will find a way to make it work. I am the living example 😉
Totally agree, Lydia! We lived in a small 2-bedroom apartment until Rebecca was 4. I did my grocery shopping with two kids in a stroller, putting all the groceries underneath the stroller. We had no car. But we had a lot of fun! We went to the library once a week. We had a playgroup we visited. The museum was free on Thursday mornings. We had a lot of outings, so that we could get out of the tiny apartment. It did work. And we tried to live on next to nothing so we could save money to eventually get a house.
I know it’s really hard for some families and they can’t afford it. But I just want to say–you can make it work in an apartment! You really can.
In America you get 12 weeks of FLMA, some states that has increased and I believe may be paid in others. In my organization right now you can get 6 weeks paid short term disability and use any PTO you have accumulated or take the time without pay.
As a working adult with no children, I ask this question….How is it fair that someone has to do your job, in your organization for an extended length of time because you make a choice to have children ? Why should you receive extended paid time off when others who do not have children will never receive same benefit ?
Wendy, I think it’s because as a society, we do need children. There are some things we pay for because you need the next generation. Someone is going to have to work in the hospitals, in the nursing homes, etc. that we will all need when we are older. For society to prosper, we do need at least replacement population, and we all do rely on the younger generation. I mean, not all of us will have our homes catch on fire, but we all need firefighters. Some things are just necessary, and those things should be encouraged. That’s kind of the way that I see it anyway, and that’s also what governments have found, too, and why so many governments are trying financial incentives right now to get people to have children. We need that next generation.
Interestingly, FMLA only applies to businesses that have at least 50 employees. The store I work for only has 20, so FMLA does not apply to us. Luckily my employer offers all full-time staff 2 weeks of paid parental leave & up to 12 weeks of leave total after a birth or adoption (during which we can use vacation & sick time if we want to be paid). Many people working for small businesses aren’t in such a good situation, though.
And just speaking for myself, my pregnancy was an accident, not a choice. However, I absolutely do not believe in abortion. There was never a question that I was going to have and keep my daughter. And to do that I needed maternity leave so that I could recover physically from the birth and learn how to be a mother.
For the same reason everyone’s property taxes pays for schools in the district they live in in America, whether they have children that attend, have graduated, homeschool, or have no children. We all have a certain responsibility for the future generations.
“Why should you receive extended paid time off when others who do not have children will never receive same benefit ?” .
Leave is usually “life event” based. Having children is such an event, getting sick, needing long term disability, caring for an elderly person. Parental leave, sick leave etc allow the person to focus what’s on hand so they can return to being productive members of society. We treat parental leave special, but it really isn’t, we wouldn’t be complaining about the employee who got injured and needed a few months to heal
Also…parental leave isn’t vacation. You’re recovering from a major physical event, sometimes major abdominal surgery. You have a tiny new human who’s sole purpose often seems to be preventing you from sleeping, or doing anything else. They demand around the clock care, feeding, cuddling. And then, after only a few weeks, while you’re still sleep deprived and likely bleeding, and you and baby are still getting to know each other, still learning to nurse, how to sleep, you’re obligated to hand your baby over to someone else for several hours a day in order to keep your job? How is hat fair? And honestly I don’t do great work when I’m sleep deprived, in pain from stitches, hopped up on as much pain meds as I can take, and super anxious to get back to baby.
Even as they get older, it’s still a ton of work and exhausting. It’s not a vacation, and kids aren’t cheap. Having the paid leave allows the parents to be able to focus on healing themselves and caring for their child without worrying (hopefully) about having enough money for rent or food.
Exactly, Lynn!
Am I understanding the Canadian EI system correctly that *employees* pay into the EI program, not just taxpayers in general and the govt subsidizes maternity leave? If that’s correct, that’s what I think is unpopular about it in the US, that when maternity leave is talked about it, it’s from the perspective of “the govt will pay for it”, which just means that all of us are paying higher taxes for something that many people won’t ever use. We can roll with paying taxes so that the city and state will keep our roads in shape (she said as literally every main road in her city is under construction), and I think most of us can accept paying taxes for public schools even if we don’t use them, but we have an upper limit and I think govt subsidized maternity leave is somewhere in there. 🙂 But employees themselves paying into a program that will allow them to take leave for a baby’s birth, go for it.
That being said, I’d be amenable to the govt offering tax breaks to businesses that offer a more generous mat/pat leave. And I can absolutely see your point about the benefits of hiring temps for a longer time, as opposed to the shorter leaves where everyone else picks up the slack. I’d never thought about it that way and I appreciate the change of perspective.
Jessica, EI is paid into by both employees and employers. I forget what the percentage is, but it’s a payroll tax and I believe that the employee and employer’s contributions are the same. I may honestly be wrong about that, though. So there’s a big EI pool which the government administers, and from that you can draw unemployment benefits and maternity leave benefits.
So it’s called a “payroll tax”, but it does go into this pool of money to support unemployed workers, and it is self-funded, not out of general treasury. Of course payroll taxes are a drain on economic activity, but I’m not sure how much they increased when mat leave came in. An economist would have to do that for me, because the rules for taking unemployment benefits have also tightened over time.
Again, you can only claim the money IF you’re planning on returning to work. If you’re planning on being a stay-at-home mom, you can’t take the money. So it really is just to provide working moms with longer with their babies.
But no, it’s not a government program per se; it’s a program funded by payroll deductions. And it’s pretty much widely supported by all political parties, so it’s not a partisan issue.
Hi, I just wanted to clarify that there is no obligation to “promise” to return to work in order to qualify for maternity leave in Canada. When I went on maternity leave, I was pretty positive that I would not be returning to my job, but I was still fully entitled to maternity leave. However, if you are receiving a “top-up” from your employer, they will require you to return to work for them or pay back the top up.
Really? That’s so awesome! When I took mat leave there was that obligation. I’m glad they changed it!
Ooooh Jessica! I like the idea of a tax break for employers who offer a better parental leave!!!!!
It’s also not just for maternity leave, all our EI is taken from the same pot, so to speak. Everyone pays into it, employers and employees, and can be used for short-term disability, when you lose your job, and for parental leaves. It’s not just that people are paying for mat leaves exclusively.
Our FMLA act grants up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave, none paid unless you have banked PTO that you choose to use. But to be eligible for FMLA, you have to work for a company that has more than 50 employees. So many of us who work for small businesses have no guarantee of leave at all. In my case, I took two weeks off fully, then came back part time for the next four, and was back fully at 6 weeks. And that was with a difficult labor ending in a c-section, preeclampsia, and an infection and some minor complications with my postpartum recovery. I ended up with mild PPA/PPD, and while there were a number of things that I think contributed to that, I do believe the lack of recovery time was a factor. I rarely hear maternity leave discussed here. It doesn’t seem to be a concern for many politically, and when it is brought up I mostly just hear “well it was your choice to have a baby.” We may someday have a second child, something we always planned on, but saving up a $6,000 deductible for the hospital bill and figuring out how to take leave from work (I’m currently our main income earner) are stressors that help push that decision further down the road than we ever imagined.
Oh, dear, Brittany. That is so awful. I can’t even imagine. I hope that this is something that can change soon. I’m so sorry!
SAME HERE. I work for a company with three of us. I can take as much or as little time off as I want, and my boss is amazing and helped as much as he could, but if I don’t work, I don’t get paid. I stopped taking new clients a month in advance, took two weeks off when my son was born, then worked reduced hours for four weeks so I would get paid, then back to regular hours by 6 weeks. Plus that $5,500 deductible to deliver. It is insane. It really is. It’s not okay.
Paternity leave is nonexistent. Just THIS YEAR, in 2018, my husband’s company expanded pat leave to five days. Last year, when our son was born it was three days. THREE. I went into labor Monday morning, he was born Tuesday morning, and I got home Wednesday evening. That means hubby was supposed to go back to work the day after I got home from the hospital. We have FOUR CHILDREN. I don’t know how that would even work if I had needed a c-section; he probably would have been docked his sick pay. He took two days of vacation but went back the following week. I depended on other friends and family until my mom could come up to help, but by the third week postpartum it was all me all the time. And I had to make up all of the work I had missed, so there’s nothing like trying to catch up with a two week old. But that was easier than trying to catch up on 6 weeks of work with a 6 week old.
It’s just not okay. It’s not. No wonder PPD rates are through the roof right now.
Wow. Just wow. Why do we not talk about this more? This is awful. Like really awful.
I mean, when you’re self-employed in Canada it’s the same thing–if you don’t work, you don’t get paid. So if you had a family business it would be the same thing I guess. But at least you COULD take the time off. You all really need to start this conversation!
I guess it isn’t fair for me to omit that I do work from home, so I am blessed to never have had to leave my kiddos so early.
Still, it just bothers me that I have to pay thousands of dollars in medical bills to have a baby, then I don’t get paid anything to take time off, and if I didn’t have outside help I would have been caring for FOUR children at four days postpartum.
I think my boss would love to do more, but he genuinely can’t afford it when there are only three of us and I was already representing nearly half of our agency’s clients.
I got paid nothing, because stay at home moms get paid nothing, had to not only take care if 4 kids by myself, but take care of my husband who was seriously ill and hospitalized and out of work with no pay for 3 months.
Tried getting temporary food stamps and was denied.
We had no choice but to max out or credit cards, which we are still paying for and struggling with.
Actually, I don’t there’s any amount of guaranteed leave here – not even 2 weeks. Some full time positions will be eligible for 6 weeks of paid leave, or 12 weeks unpaid, but most are not, and many people I know have to use vacation days to take time off.
Also, just in my experience and in my friends, employers generally just let you go (unless you have enough vacation days saved up) rather than hold your position, whether they make others pick up the slack or not.
It really is sad that many third-world countries have better maternal leave plans than the US!
Wow. That’s unbelievable. I wonder why people haven’t made this more of an issue? That’s why I thought writing this post and letting more Americans see how it works elsewhere may give people some ideas that there are other ways to do things that honestly aren’t that disruptive.
I think no one knows how to change it. We just keep getting more depressed and more anxious, and apparently no one has done the math to realize that mat/pat leave would probably cost LESS than all of the fallout of no leave.
Two weeks paid leave is not true at all. They don’t have to give you any paid leave. I have birthed six babies. With each and every one of them, I had to cover my own expenses in full if I wanted any time off work. After one of my babies, I had to return to work ONE WEEK after having him! My husband (now ex-husband) wasn’t working and we were struggling to stay afloat. If we didn’t want to lose our house, I had to have money to pay for it. It was the WORST THING EVER!! I absolutely hated every second! My boss tried to send me home several times but I didn’t leave. I cried constantly and I was a total mess for months! With some of my other babies, I took money out of my 401K so that I could stay home with them for 2 months and still afford to do it.
Oh, my gosh, Debbie. That’s awful. This makes me so sad.
I forgot to tell you that I live in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA. I also pumped at work for a year after having babies and it was really hard. One job that I had, I pumped in a bathroom with about 20 stalls and toilets flushing all around me. Try to get comfortable in there and get milk out… It was hell! Most other places gave me a little office to pump in, but it was still hard to do that for so long. I was sore all the time. I would have LOVED being able to stay home with my little ones!!! It’s so hard to be away from them when the only thing you want to do it be home holding them in your arms, kissing them, and snuggling them. I wanted to feed them, talk to them, sing to them, and just be with them. I wanted to be there when they rolled over, crawled for the first time, took their first steps, etc. I missed some of those things because I was at work. Also, I wasn’t very focused on my job when my mind and heart were on my wishes to be home…
This seriously makes me sad. Everybody, regardless of political party, needs to get this on their party’s platform!
Here in the US You are supposed to get 5 weeks and now it is male or female. My buddy just got 5 weeks off when his daughter was born last Novmeber. There are other ways to get more time but that pends your employer and insurance and other odd circumstanes. The US is behind the rest of the world in many areas. Without being political -Here in the US the issue is money driven and lack of human compassion. Of course thats just one mans opinion. I like the mat thing. Certainly seems like a nice concept.
I wonder if it’s different for different states? Some people are saying 2, some 6 and you’re saying 5. I know a lot more things are done at the state level in the U.S. than at the provincial level in Canada. Here it’s all national.
Yes, it does vary by state. Federally it is 12 weeks unpaid for those working at companies with more than 50 employees. If less than 50 employees, zero guaranteed. But a handful of states do have their own policies. Phil’s state must have a 5 week law. Mine has nothing, so only the federal act applies.
Yes!!! I live in California, and I love our maternity and paternity leave here. It’s 4 weeks before due date for mama and 12 weeks after… Most of that is paid at a rate of about 70% of usual income. Then moms can take up to seven months off legally but not all paid (depends on your employer). BUT what I really love is that dads get up to 12 weeks of paternity leave that they can take at any point during the child’s first year of life (this is also true with adoptions and ill family members you want to care for). I believe only 6 weeks are paid, but my husband always gets very close to his usual salary for those weeks, so we just save a little bit each month that I’m pregnant and we have the most amazing staycations! I think it has really helped me stay in an excellent mental space throughout the postpartum stage, and I probably would have been emotionally up and down a bit had my husband gone right back to work!
Wow, that sounds quite different from the rest of the U.S. I totally hear what you’re saying about enjoying your staycations with your husband, too! We had a great time doing day trips with Keith when Katie was a newborn and Rebecca was a toddler!
In the company I work for, maternity leave is treated as short term disability. I got 6 weeks paid then extended my leave another 6 weeks using FMLA (unpaid). I did not want to return to work full time and my position could not be turned into part time so I was planning on leaving after my maternity leave was up -barring any unforeseen circumstances. They hired another person to take my place before I even left for maternity leave. Legally they can do that, but I was still a little bummed because I didn’t want to assume everything would work out fine and I wouldn’t need my job anymore. We thought we could make it on my husband’s income but we really needed my leave to find out for sure. They ended up offering me part time work while I was on my maternity leave so at the end of my 12 weeks I started back working part time (it’s actually a pretty sweet deal). I’m happy and my team is happy.
I would like to see more companies offering in-office childcare for babies or job sharing options . I LOVE my job, working and the company I work for and I’m happy to have the chance to still contribute AND take care of my baby.
Even 12 weeks sounds so short though! In Canada, they’re not legally allowed to give your job to someone else. I think they have to keep a job that’s at the same pay and at the same level for you. Most people just return to the exact same job, because a temp took their job for that time.
Job sharing options sound really sweet.
Three of the six women who work for me had babies in the last few months. They just work from home on their own schedules. I think we need more online jobs! 🙂
I hate that maternity leave has to be covered under short term disability. It’s not a disability, its the most natural thing in the world.
Christine that reminds me of how in Britain they say “I fell pregnant”… like as though you “fell ill”? Sounds like an unfortunate, inconvenient accident rather than a joyful blessing!
The other thing I will add is you have to be keen here in the US sometimes to get the time. If you know the law you can get the 5 weeks if your employer doesnt offer it. It is a law. However there are a gizilion stories about folks who got nothing. When my first was born my wife got the then 4 week leave. I dropped my little guy off at a womans house at 4 weeks. Grace was mortified. On baby’s number 2 and 3 she found out about the states law that had been in place for child #1 and got even more time for the others. So like I said you have to be keen. It is sad becuase the bottom line is some people just dont have that way about them. So people/employers take adavntage of people. Sad. Really grateful for what we were able to do as a couple with our children.
Yes. Federal And States can be different. It can also vary with your job and your employer. Government and state emoloyees can follow different protocols as well as the private sector Depending on where you live. It really is a crazy system. Like I said you have to learn how to work the system. Each circumstance can yeild different result if you know how to work it. That’s what I know about it
I have been extremely blessed as a mother. Because of my husband’s job and schedule we decided before we had kids that I would stay home with them (which was always my dream growing up). I have a massive amount of respect for any woman who needs to go back to work so soon after having a baby. My sister is a teacher and she has planned two of her three pregnancies successfully around the school year so she would be off with her newborn for the summer because she would only get 6 weeks paid leave otherwise. Teachers can use their sick days to extend that a bit but when you have children those sick days are extremely valuable for when those children get sick and you need to stay home with them.
Along with lack of maternity leave, I think an awful lot of women struggle with breastfeeding because of the need to pump at work and the lack of support from their employers, time and private space to do it. My sister had to do it in her classroom, during her planning period and her lunch period. When was she supposed to plan and eat lunch you ask? Good question.
I think there is just a general lack of understanding surrounding motherhood, both from employers and some mothers themselves. You are absolutely right, Sheila. Babies need their moms. And moms need their babies. In my honest opinion the first year of a baby’s life should be spent with very limited separation from its mother. No separation really if at all possible. The very nature of breastfeeding tells me that God didn’t design the mother and child relationship with separation in mind (especially when following an on-demand schedule). I know not all women can or choose to breastfeed and I am not making ANY judgements about that. Two of my sisters struggled greatly with supply issues and wanted nothing more than to be able to nurse their babies. But the fact remains that God did design the breastfeeding relationship to bond the mother and child. And I believe bottle feedings also establish that bond.
Totally agree, Samantha. And Canada does have higher rates of breastfeeding that the U.S. has. I wonder how much of it has to do with our maternity leave policy?
Now, I do want to say that you get 57% of your income up to a certain maximum. I don’t know what that is, but I’m guessing that the maximum would be set slightly below the average income, so maybe around $40,000 a year? So if you’re making $60,000, you don’t get 57% of that.
And you do only get 57%. So some families can’t live on that, and they go back to work sooner. But most women that I know do take the full year.
What probably floors me the most though is when a woman can’t wait to get back to work after having a baby. I don’t want to come across as judgmental here, but l think Lydia brought up a great point. I think women have been trained to believe that they will go crazy being cooped up with their child all day long and that their child benefits from being with other people because it will help them to not be so clingy and to be more social and confident.
I know. I’m a huge advocate for parents caring for their babies/toddlers. I think that’s far better for everyone!
I hope that with the internet the workplace changes enough that more people can work part-time from home. I’m doing my part and employing 6 people that way! We need more flexibility when we have small kids.
Samantha-same! I can understand women who are the main provider needing to go back to work but to be anxious to get back and away from the baby they just had?! I can’t fathom that.
And as a homeschooling mom I get really frustrated with the comments at back to school time when people ask me if I’m ready to send the kids to school. Then, when I say I homeschool, they pity me. I’m not disparaging public school here-homeschooling is a calling and it’s not for everyone-but i CHOOSE to homeschool?! Don’t feel sorry for me. I want my kids with me.
We just had such a riot homeschooling. Totally fun years! Wouldn’t have missed it for the world.
I don’t know about you but I was not trained to go back to work, it was a necessity and for many, that’s their reality until it can change. Having children is an opportunity to adjust your perspective and expectations.
I was not trained to think that way either. I actually knew from a very young age that I wanted to stay home to raise my children. My mother was a stay at home mom to 8 children. And I have been very blessed that I have been able to choose to stay home with my kids. Would we bring in more money if I worked. Maybe, but probably not much because of childcare expenses.
But here is the other side of that reality. I had a prenatal appointment the other day and the nurse asked me what I did for work. I said I was a stay at home mom. She commented that that was the job she came to work every day just to escape. I don’t know if she was just making a joke, but I have heard the same thing from other women too. There was a military wife that I knew at one point who wanted to go back to substitute teaching, not because they needed it financially but just because she wanted a break from her baby. And that is exactly what she told me. Her baby wasn’t even a year old yet. And the money she would be bringing in would pretty much just cover the childcare. I don’t want to come off as judgemental, but I just cannot for the life of me understand that mindset. Especially since I was a substitute for a few years before I had my kids and I know what that particular job is like. Anyone who would choose a classroom full of other people’s students and kids over their own baby when they don’t have to and the pay will ONLY cover daycare is totally nuts.
So there are women out there who have that mindset. That a job is better than having to be cooped up with your kid all day. And it is sad. It’s also sad that there are women out there who would love to stay home but can’t. I wish motherhood and fatherhood were valued as much as they should be by the world as a whole.
I think the lack of community is part of the reason many moms need to get back to work. They are lonely with only little ones around. I also think society has put so much emphasis on providing monetarily that providing a “home” is looked down upon.
Yes I agree with you Erin. If we still lived in a time when people lived in communities it would be only on you to care for your kids. Your mom and grandmother and friends and sisters etc everyone would be around and help. You would still do washing and laundry but someone who loved / cared for both you and your baby would help. And if you did get sick surrounding birth (more than the average) other people would help take care of you and family. Now you do everything yourself. It is lonely. And it’s not always easy to get out and about if you don’t have a vehicle. So people work so that for a short time someone else takes care of their kid and they can have some non lonely interaction. I don’t agree with it and wish communities were still a thing. I wish I could stay home with my boys. It kills me to be taking care of 20-30 rude and sometimes violent other people’s kids and not be home with mine. But I sometimes need to leave my kids with their dad to escape in the evenings. And when I was home after my second in the winter with no car, crappy transit and a baby who screamed all. The. Time. I gave up going out. So I was effectively a hermit with no people dropping by, no one helping out, no parents who seemed to care. A raging case of either ppd or sad because it was winter. I was lonely. I was a terrible parent. I would happily get out of the house every evening. I sucked. As a human being. My lowest low. No community, no support, no love. And two littles depending on me. I agree. It’s a lack of community. Leaves mamas seeking other conversation. And to not be lonely. It’s not right. It’s society.
The weekly benefit rate is 55% of the claimant’s average weekly insurable earnings up to a maximum amount
Maximum ei benefit paid is $547 a week for 12 month leave for someone with the maximum annual ei premium rate (paycheck deduction- employee portion) $858.22 on the insurable earning of $51,700.
If you choose extended (18 month leave) ei benefit paid is at 33%. Max of $328 week. If eligible for Family Supplement this amount could be increased.
Right–but that’s only if they’re contributing into the system, right? Like it’s their “insurable” earnings, so it doesn’t apply to self-employed people who aren’t paying into the system?
Just added an update to the post that I thought I’d post here, too: I decided to check the numbers so we’d have something concrete to talk about (imagine that?). Anyway, in Canada, the employee contributes 1.63% of their income, and the employer contributes 2.28%. So the employer basically pays a tax of 2.28% on each employee’s pay. The maximum employer contribution is $1,170, and the maximum employee contribution is $836, but that’s only if the employee makes $52000 or more. If they make less, it’s not that much. So while it is a tax on employers, it’s not like it’s 20% or even 10%.
Question: Don’t you already have payroll deductions for unemployment insurance? I mean, how does unemployment work in the U.S.? Because our mat leave is just done through the unemployment insurance system, and that 2.28% employer contribution covers ALL unemployment insurance, not just mat leave.
Just wondering how unemployment insurance is handled in the U.S.
Unemployment is REALLY complicated here. Again, it all varies by state, and employer.
In my area, as far as I understand it, you can’t receive unemployment if you are let go for disciplinary reasons, or your personal inability to complete the job (injury, medical, etc). But we’re what’s called a “Right to Work” state. Within those policies, an employer does not have to have cause to terminate someone, so they don’t have to report why someone is being let go and the burdon of proof is on the individualto say there was to cause. (Does that make sense? It barely makes sense to me, even describing it.)
So essentially, you can get unemployment if your company was big enough to be required to offer it, and they are doing something like lay-offs.
Samantha, california is called an “at will employment” state. You can technically be fired for any reason or none at all. California is not a “right to work” state but we still do not need a reason to fire someone. Many people are surprised to learn that in this state that is seen as a bastion of progressive politics.
There is no such thing as unemployment insurance in the US that covers health insurance. Well unless you pay for it yourself. Unemployment benefits covers pay only. Unemployment benefits are based on how much you get paid And you do have to pay in a certain amount to collect and it can vary by state. I think the piece that you are missing is the understanding that in the US childbirth is covered under health insurance not unemployment. So if you are unemployed you can either do what’s called a cobra off your existing plan from your previous employer or you do Obama trump care /our federal program that we now have and you pay direct out-of-pocket then theres a tax subsidy you can get on your health insurance premium based on your income. Its a mess. They’re all types of programs to get in to based on your income to get insurance for free or severely discounted and all varies by county state – just a mess. What I want to know is who pays all the holiday time all you other countries get. I find it fascinating folks from other countries go on holiday for a month at a time – just not too common in the US. I am grateful for the time that get but I Earned it. Through my employers and in my case job negotiations. I probably end up getting about a month off but no way can I take a full months in one shot. That is what we call retirement lol
Hi Phil! You only get 2 weeks vacation at most jobs when you’re starting. It’s not actual paid vacation; it’s just 4% of your pay is in vacation pay, and you get that each year as a benefit, but then you can take 2 weeks off, if that makes sense.
Jobs may offer you more time off, but it’s not required. Only 2 weeks is required. I don’t know what other countries do. I know that David, who is in the military, gets more vacation time than Connor, who worked in the private sector.
And I don’t think we’ve ever gone on holiday for a month at a time! Three weeks, yes, but that’s also with me working in our RV, and with Keith only working half time in general.
I think the big difference is health care, in that it’s not tied to employment at all in Canada, so it’s just not a deciding factor for any of us. That’s likely a huge chunk of the difference. I can’t imagine having to save up $6000 to have a baby.
It so confusing to explain – so when you take maternity leave the employer keeps paying you as if you still wotk there and then the employer gets tax benefits for paying you. So in essance the federal govt is paying your leave time through a federally backed fund. Which I could be corrected on some of my specifics but believe in the case of materity is now considered health care. Thats the gist of it. My facts may be off a bit
Phil, unemployment insurance does not cover childbirth or any other birth-related health care expense in Canada. Those expenses are covered by our provincial health plans.
Maternity leave is not a health care expense. It’s a leave of absence to care for a baby, and therefore, the mother/parent needs to draw from unemployment insurance to cover their lost wages.
I’m an American, and while I am very left-leaning, I think that compassionate parental leave policies are just common sense. Babies do best when they’re with their parents, and new parents do best when they’re with their babies. And society does better as a whole when children and families are healthy.
There’s a parental leave bill being debated in Congress right now that would fund leave through a payroll tax, similar to Canada’s. I called my elected officials to express my support.
OKAY PEOPLE HERE’S A CONCRETE ANSWER! DO WHAT CHRISTINE DID AND CALL YOUR OFFICIALS TO SUPPORT THE POLICY!
I will be having #1 at the end of November. My “maternity leave” is up to 12 weeks off with my short-term disability insurance that I’ve been paying into through my employer. It is doctor-driven, so if my doctor says I’m ready to go back after 6 weeks, the insurance turns off. It will be 60% of my pay. The insurance begins after you’ve been off for 8 days so it could be about 8 weeks total, but still.
My employer does not have to follow the FMLA, which allows for up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave throughout the course of a year with the promise of your job back (but the loss of any ability to accrue paid time off or seniority during that time). My husband could take that time off, but there would be no paycheck coming in from him if he did so (and only 60% for me). You can bet I’m worried about having to go back after 6 weeks!
Thankfully, my employer is amazing and will (should) allow me to work from home some days and take baby girl into work with me the other days. There’s no way I’m putting her in daycare or someone else’s care after such short of a time! Also thankfully, I will have about 4 additional weeks of paid time off that I can use.
I would love, love, love to stay home. That may happen eventually, but my husband watched his dad work three jobs and spend very little time with him and his brothers because his mom was a SAHM and his dad was worried about finances. I don’t want him to have that burden, because I see how it has affected his parents’ relationship.
Oh, wow. That’s really rough! I’m glad you have a good employer, though.
I honestly can’t picture going back to work at 6 weeks or even 10 weeks. I don’t know how you all do it. I really don’t.
I understand your husband’s point of view too, though. I hope you can find a way to stay at home one day!
I fully agree that our system and norms in the US are not family friendly at all. On a personal level, when my first was born, I was determined to stay home with him for the full 12 weeks allowed. But, I only had 4 weeks of paid time accrued. So the last 2 mos were completely unpaid and I had to write checks for my insurance premiums. This started us off with extra credit card debt that took a long time for us to pay off. And then, we had to pay ridiculous amounts for daycare and health expenses. It made our transition to parenthood all the more stressful. Professionally, I am a hospital social worker and I work with families who have babies with major medical issues. Many of the babies are hospitalized for months or are unable to go to daycare because of their health. These families are in very difficult positions. Many moms have to quit jobs they would have otherwise returned to if given more time. Others figure out ways to work while their baby is still in the ICU or is at home with a relative. Very few can get a home nurse. 2-income families and single moms struggle the most. We do the best we can to help but much of it is a system issue.
Wow. That’s so tough! I remember when our son was in the ICU. I can’t imagine not being able to be there because I had to go back to work. Oh, dear.
In Canada you CAN receive EI Special Benefits if you are self-employed. This is for Mat, Pat, Illness, Family Caregiver and Compassionate only.
It is incorrect to keep saying you are not eligible.
But don’t you have to be contributing into the system, though? Otherwise where is the money coming from? I know my cousin wasn’t eligible, and Keith’s work colleagues aren’t eligible. Unless it’s something that’s come through in the last year or two?
I also know it’s different in Quebec (like most things are different in Quebec) and they’re more generous…
No, not new. Most self-employed just don’t look into it.
Yes, you need to contribute. It is not a have your cake & eat it too situation.
Someone who is self-employed has the option to register with the Canada Employment Insurance Commission. Payments are based on earning and quite low for the benefits and security you receive.
You have to wait one year from registration before you can submit a claim.
Okay, that’s fine–but they still do need to contribute into the system. So that’s great. If someone wants the option, they can contribute into the system. I know when I was on my husband’s payroll we chose not to have me eligible for EI, even though we could have done it, because we knew I’d never use it. Similarly, I don’t do it now because I know I’d never use it, either. But if you know you’ll be having a bunch of kids in the future, it definitely is worth looking into.
Rita, I just looked into it more and talked to Rebecca, and she’s going to sign up for it now! So is Connor (he’s going to be self-employed starting in September). I’m so glad that I blogged about this today because I never would have known. So thank you so much!
Yes and this aspect is relatively new. Last 5 years I think. My cousin is a midwife and looked into it for herself after she finished her schooling. She only wants to have 2 kids I think and she decided to take the no pay for her year off. They did a bunch of calculations and decided that for two maternity leaves it wasn’t worth it to pay into it continually over her working life. It didn’t fiscally add up long run for her / them so she opted to be careful and just save her pennies so to speak and take her leaves unpaid. She’s lucky she’s financially able to do so though. Many aren’t.
I do think that this system (like many including healthcare) needs an overhaul. And a quick political aside is for the 2 main parties that exist in what is supposed to be the UNITED states of America need to get off their political platforms and work on this stuff together. There are many things not working (like the fact I’ll likely have to pay thousands from our income tax return for not having health insurance this year-even tho I paid my own medical bills out of pocket…)
When we had our first baby 18 years ago I worked until she was born basically. At that time I was temping for a temp agency. That was perfect! Then I quit and was a stay at home mom. And we sacrificed for that. There were things we went without for sure. I’ve gone on to stay home with all 4 of my kids and homeschool them also. It was never easy financially. My husband does not make a lot and the majority of the time hedidn’t even have sick pay. So if he was sick we didn’t get paid. But we survived and I don’t regret a minute of it.
I know there are women who just can’t. Then there are some who “can’t”. In my opinion of you want to work, own it!!! Say you prefer to work.
Yes! And there were a few good things to come out of the ACA. Not many but there were a few (breastpumps got covered, children can stay on their parents’ insurance until 25) but the worst thing is that stupid penalty. The government has no right to punish people who can’t afford health insurance on their own or choose not to have it for whatever reason.
Very few married mothers actually NEED to work. They might THINK that they need to, but they probably don’t. They want a recent-model car, and they want a big TV, and they want all sorts of luxuries, and then they decide that they “need” to work.
This goes double for Christians. If they actually believed what the Bible says, they would be willing to let God decide what they actually need, and trust Him to provide it.
Actually this isn’t true. I had to return to work because my husband was working 2 jobs and broke his ankle so now he can’t do one of them (it’s a custodial job). Also I’m continuing to work so that my child can have benefits (he just started his desk job and they won’t kick in until Sept.). And so we can afford to save for a down payment on a small house for our growing family one day. So yes, in our house it’s definitely a need.
Daniel, I find this a really problematic and shame-filled comment, to tell you the truth. What you’re essentially saying is that if people don’t have enough money, it’s because they aren’t trusting God.
Um, no. Maybe God has different plans for different people.
I was told over and over again that the reason that my son wasn’t recovering from his congenital heart defect was because I wasn’t trusting God enough. Let’s stop with that. It just makes people feel awful. Let’s instead point people to something that can honestly help them, okay? Some people live in very, very difficult circumstances, and I think listening to their stories here is better than making blanket judgments that make others feel less-than.
God never promised us a bed of roses. He never promised us a life free from the ailments and infirmities of ordinary life. He DID promise to supply all our needs, one way or another.
But there is a catch. We MUST put God first in our lives, or all bets are off. If your needs are not being met, then either you’re not not putting God first, or else you don’t understand what your needs actually are. Having your son healed is NOT a need–it’s a want. And it might be a want that conflicts with God’s will.
And yes, if people truly don’t have enough money, it’s because they don’t trust God enough–witness George Muller, and untold thousands of people like him. What part of “seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you” do you not understand?
I’m just going to say, this is sounding a lot like that story:
A man is trapped in a flood. The waters are rising, and it’s clear he’s in trouble. He prays to God, “God! rescue me from the waters!” A neighbour drives by and says, “Hop in, let’s get out of here!” and the man replies, “I’m waiting for God to rescue me, I have faith that he will.” The neighbour drives off.
The waters continue to rise. He goes to the roof of his house, which is the only place that is safe. He prays, “God! Rescue me from the waters!” Soon later, some people in a boat cruise by and say, “Jump in! we’ve got room!” and the man replies: “I’m waiting for God to provide. I have faith He will rescue me.”
He prays again: “God! Rescue me from these rising waters!” A helicopter flies by and offers to lower a ladder to lift him up to safety. Again, the man replies, “I’m waiting for God to save me. I have faith he will answer my prayers.”
The man drowns. He gets to heaven and says to God: “I prayed to you three times! Why didn’t you rescue me?”
God says, “I sent you a truck, a boat, and a helicopter! What more could you want?”
I think you’re providing an oversimplified, hyper-spiritualized idea of what God’s provision means. Many people in the Bible had professions–Aquilla and Priscilla, who were apostles, were tent-makers. Did they not have enough faith? Obviously that was not the case.
Let’s not be quick to say someone’s hurting is because they’re not spiritual enough, and recognize the truck, boat, and helicopter when we see them.
Who are you? The Lord does provide; sometimes that provision comes through being a Proverbs 31 woman who works to meet the needs of her family.
We have faith and wisdom. It’s not one solution for every situation and most aren’t going back to work to acquire “luxuries”.
Daniel
Interesting literal interpretation of the Bible used to degrade others. I picked this one out. Imagine if this was literal?
I, the LORD, love justice.
I hate robbery and wrongdoing.
I will faithfully reward my people for their suffering
and make an everlasting covenant with them (Isaiah 61:8).
I am a christian. My husband and I both have jobs and we also both service as the worship leaders at our church. We are barely scraping by now and I am 7 months pregnant. With what we make now we cannot afford for one of us to quit our job and we can also not afford to pay for daycare. Let me assure you. We have no luxuries. We have slashed our expenses to the bones. That being said, we have complete and utter faith in God that he will provide just what we need to get by once the baby comes. Whatever that my look like. But please dont make general statement about marriage couples who are expecting. There are a lot of marriage women that need to work. And it’s not because of lack of faith or materialism.
My husband is in the least-hireable demographic. I almost worked myself and my unborn baby to death when I was pregnant because he was being passed over for job after job, and was unemployed.
With us, going back to work meant that we didn’t need to choose between food and rent, but could afford both. With my income, we were also able to save some money so we had a down payment available when baby #2 came along and we outgrew our 1 bedroom/1 bath apartment. We choose to start our family a bit earlier than our friends (by “early”, I mean at age 28 instead of early 30s), and I don’t regret it at all, esp. since I had issues with multiple miscarriages. The trade-off was that my husband was still a medical resident, and he didn’t start his “real” job until our 2nd child came along.
Thanks to our parental leaves (which I’ll describe in another comment), things worked out well.
Ugh!! I’m reading this sitting at my desk on my first day back to work. I left a 9 week old baby with my mom and it’s so hard!!! Luckily I have grandparents around with flexible schedules right now (and my husband’s mom isn’t working so she’ll be watching him full time in a bit.) since I had to return to work early. I wasn’t planning on returning if we could afford things on my husband’s income, but he started a job the week I had our baby so I had to plan on working until at least September when his benefits kicked in so that our child could have benefits (we’re still both on our parents’ luckily!) And then he broke his ankle and we lost 3.5 weeks of income 🙁 so now I’m not sure how long I have to work to build our savings back up. I hate it! I miss my baby!
Also, I think I saw people say this already but nationally we aren’t guaranteed ANY paid leave. Some states or businesses will implement a good policy, but on a national level we are only guaranteed 12 weeks of unpaid leave (and that’s for everything in that year – maternity needs, unexpected doctors appointments, etc.). And, they are only required to keep a similiar position to your previous one for you. And even that only applies to businesses with more than 50 employees. I think the 2 weeks figure comes from people in jobs with benefits who use their 2 weeks of paid time off for that money. I work for a business who doesn’t meet the 50 employees standard, but they gave me 12 weeks unpaid and pro-rated my PTO so I could use as much of it as I needed for income. I used almost all of it so we could survive while I didn’t work, so now I don’t have anything for the rest of the year. Luckily the one good thing we have is that employers are required to provide a pumping space for you that isn’t a bathroom.
Oh, wow, Heather, I’m so sorry you’re away from your baby! But hooray for grandparents. They can be such a blessing.
I can’t believe that you aren’t guaranteed any paid leave at all. That’s so weird. (Although our paid leave is only paid out at 57% of our income, but still). I hope you make it through the day!
They are such a blessing! We spent the past 3 weeks on a grandparents’ house right after the broken ankle and they were such a big help!
And yes, it’s not right. There needs to be a change. Even 50% is better than nothing! And thank you I hope I make it too! My mom is sending baby pictures, which is helping! 🙂
A subject near and dear to my heart. When I had my first child and found out that maternity leave was 12 weeks, I said, “Who made these rules?”
But once I knew the timeframe I was working with, I made sure all of my children were sleeping through the night before I returned to work. It made me realize the impossible was possible. It reinforced my determination and I was a better employee because I was rested. My co-workers were often surprised that I had young children because I was not stressed out.
FMLA is supposed to be a concession but I think its not well thought out because though your job is guaranteed you’re not necessarily being paid and everyone knows that you need money when you have children.
I would like to see better maternity leave policies in this country especially for the younger generation, but until that time we work with what we have. If I can do it (successfully) others can also.
How in the world were they sleeping through the night? Teach me your ways!
It’s been such a long time I don’t remember. It was a combination of evening walks, feeding and self soothing. I got into a routine and they did too. I was more practical than emotional, perhaps a bit detached – that’s how a lot of it got done.
I do not think it is the governments job to pay for health insurance or any kind of leave. If the free market were allowed to function, health insurance prices would be competitive and we could purchase policies that would fit our personal needs. Government has no business telling a business what benefits to offer. Again, let the free market work. As a small business owner, if I did not have to pay so much in taxes for my employees, I could pay them more. If employees did not have to pay so much in taxes for a never ending list of benefits, they/we could use that income to save for maternity leave or purchase insurance policies to allow for our needs.
Lisa, I think asking employees to self-fund for a year of income for maternity leave is very difficult. A woman’s prime age to have a baby is in her 20s.
Considering that in Canada, together the employee and the employer only contribute 4% towards EI (not just mat leave, but all EI in general), then in order to offer her the same benefits, without the government pool, a company and an employee would have to be putting in those contributions for 14 years to equal what she gets through our system. That’s simply not possible at the age that women are giving birth. If it was a benefit people collected in their late 40s or early 50s, after they had had time to save, then I’d agree. Self-funding is likely better. But this is different.
And considering that society benefits so much first by children (because our fertility rate is declining and below replacement) and then by children who are bonded with parents, it seems a no-brainer to me.
I’m as fiscally conservative as it comes normally. And I don’t believe that Canada’s health care system should be a model for the United States, either. I do think there is plenty of problems with fully public health care. I think Social Security and CPP (our version of your Social Security) are untenable and will be broke by the time we need them. But this is diferent. A woman needing to go back to work 2 weeks after giving birth, or 4 weeks after giving birth, is just inhumane.
With my first, I took the full 12 weeks under FMLA. The first six weeks were covered under short term disability at 60% of my salary (but I’m in sales so salary was only 70% of my regular pay to begin with, commissions and bonuses you lose entirely). It was financially very difficult but I was glad to get every minute I could. I also took a demotion when I got back to work to have a less time-intensive position (I was working 60-80 hours a week beforehand). I was extremely lucky and blessed to have my mom volunteer daycare services – knowing my baby was with family making healthy bonds was huge for my sanity. We had crunched the numbers a hundred ways and there was just no way to make ends meet without my salary. Going back to work was extremely painful, and even though I pumped and made it to the one year mark I had major supply issues and it was hugely stressful.
Not to be debbie downer, but I don’t think the challenge is really a practical one. I honestly think our culture just doesn’t really like kids. Kids are “your choice, your problem” and generally if you take any child under 5 in public people give you dirty looks. Also, we seem to not really like women who are not sexually interesting and available, which new moms are not (again, looking at culture not reality). Finally, there is a strong subculture that sort of opposes women working in the first place so there’s reticence to support anything that makes working easier.
Unless we deal with the attitudes of:
• I am only going to support MY kids
• Women with small children (or generally) should not work
• Children are a deliberate planned decision, not a natural part of life
• Our society doesn’t need more people so there is no need for policy involvement
…we just won’t get the groundswell of support needed and it will be luck of the draw based on geography and company ethics.
For the record, I think all these attitudes are very illogical…
Oh, that’s really sad, Sarah. I’m glad that you had your parents! All I can say is that I think Canada is far more anti-child than the U.S. You guys have a higher fertility rate, and in general, the United States is more child friendly than Europe or anywhere else, too. So I just would think that this would be possible, given that everywhere else has this. I wonder if it’s really more about protecting businesses from having to pay more payroll taxes? I wonder if that’s the big thing? But like I said, the business contribution is 2% of an employee’s income, and that covers ALL unemployment insurance, not just maternity leave, and you already have payroll deductions for unemployment. I think there is an efficient way to do this that isn’t too expensive.
I absolutely hope you are right and I would love to see a good solution. It just baffles me that we are the only country that can’t get ANYTHING together for parental leave.
It’s funny, because on Facebook I’m being accused of being a Marxist, which is actually quite hilarious to anyone who knows me.
But to me, this is like the child labour fight in the 1800s, or the fight for a 40-hour work week. It really is inhumane to make a woman go back to work at 2 weeks, or 4 weeks, or whatever the number of weeks is in each state. It really is. And I’m just saying that Canada has figured out a way to do it that really isn’t that onerous on businesses or individuals. So there’s hope!
It especially irks me that a lot of politicians in the US talk a big talk about being pro-life and supporting family values, but they can’t get it together enough for a small, concrete policy change that would benefit families. If we want women to stop having abortions, for example, we shouldn’t make it more difficult for women to care for their babies. And what’s more of a family value than the belief that babies should be cared for by their parents?
I would like to see stronger parental leave policies here. I am kind of disheartened that the comments here have a vibe of “the only reason for a mom of young children to work is because she has to.” People have very different relationships to being a parent, women have very different relationships to mothering, and not everyone’s experience is the same. Not everyone has to do the same exact thing (mom staying at home) for families to thrive. But parents certainly should be able to be with their very young children without loss of job or support.
I agree with you. It’s a choice not always borne of necessity. There are many ways to be a mother, a good one at that. I can testify to that. But I don’t know that it’s a right – so for me, I assume it’s not a right and work with what I have.
Perhaps Canada and 97% of the rest of the world has governments that can tax citizens and use that money efficiently without wasting it, but the USA has a track record wasting money with unnecessary bureaucracy. Therefore I am absolutely against federally mandated paid maternity/paternity leave, especially in the form of another tax. However, we as individuals do have options. Choose to live on a balanced budget for the household, always saving a portion of what you make (i.e. Emergency fund). Find a job that pays better than minimum wage, and if you don’t have the skills for more than that, develop them. If your employer doesn’t pay what you are worth, find a better employer. If paid family leave is that important to you, find an employer who offers it. Moms can also choose to stay home with their little ones. Yes, it will be a big sacrifice, but absolutely worth it. If money is still an issue, develop your own small business that you can mold around your life and needs. Part of what made America so great is the fact that we didn’t sit around and wait for the government to do it for us. We did it for ourselves. We need to come back to that mentality.
Kathleen, why do you think your bureaucracy is so much more inefficient? I’m just really curious, because I wouldn’t think that Canada is a bastion of efficiency. But this does seem to be managed without too many problems.
I also am a big proponent of doing things yourself. I’d add one more thing to your list–move somewhere cheaper. Even if it means moving away from family. Some cities/states are just impossible to live in, and there are often better choices where there are still job opportunities available, and housing is much cheaper.
I do, however, think that this is also an issue of compassion. I didn’t need the mat leave for Katie. We were able to get by on Keith’s pay (even though he was making far less than the average salary at the time and we were living in downtown Toronto). We made a lot of sacrifices.
But I also know that not everyone has that chance. Some people do not have the extended family that we did. Some people do not have the income and education that we did. And for those women, who don’t have the help, I think it is an important issue that we do need to consider. Making someone go back to work when the baby is 2 weeks old, if she has no other income, really is inhumane. It just is. I wasn’t even able to walk for 6 weeks after Rebecca was born because I tore so badly. I honestly don’t know what women in that situation do. Yes, people should save more money, but given that the ideal age for having a baby is very young, and given that not everyone has extended family, and given that babies are good for society–well, I think this is one area where we can be compassionate.
Sheila – Karen can speak for herself but here is why many Americans don’t want government in their health care. It takes away free trade. Free trade is what makes our economy tick. When you take away free trade things cost more – particularly when it is government driven. Efficiency is down and service is slower and you loose control etc.. This also creates more taxes…there is a host more reasons but those are primary ones. The beauty of our Country is we can go tell the government to go pound sand. Makes me proud actually lol….Its our democracy Shiela. We love our freedom of choice. Often money has a ton to do with it. As for our govt internals well…thats a whole other ball game. Some guy will vote on a Bill for Health care reform if you include his Bill that gives him less restrictions on coal mining. So he really wasn’t for health care he just wanted his coal mining. Then they fight over it and It creates a bunch of internal fighting and that is what we call checks and balances LOL. I feel Like I am giving an 8th grade Social Studies Class here….lol. Anyway Sheila – I just wanted to say that you really blew it up today and I had a bunch of fun today..I wish your blog was this fun everyday….Although the issue at hand is quite serious. The impact a mother has on her child is so BIG and it really is sad that much of our world is not in tune with that. I am glad for Canadian folk….sounds nice…all I can say in Gest and Seriousness is this. People love our country…even in it’s current state….I love my Country and I am Proud. (most of the time lol) And you Canucks love coming here…. But I heard from one of my fellow Canadian colleagues that you guys don’t even consider Vancouver part of Canada anymore and Quebec is it’s own Country. Or is it the other way around? I have prayer for women who have to work and want to be with their babies. May God Bless you and your baby. May you find that way where ever you live. Amen
Bahahaha, I can’t think of many developed countries less interested in free trade, especially under your current govt.
Kathleen, I do tend to believe that a lot of people could make it work if they truly wanted it and were willing to make sacrifices. My parents raised 8 children on one income and we didn’t live in excess but we never wanted for anything. My parents were incredible with their money and I respect them greatly for making sacrifices for us and making it work. And when all of us got to working age, we all got part-time jobs and started saving for our own cars and college while maintaining good grades in school. We all worked through college as well.
I do believe something more should be done for mothers who need to work though. I will freely admit that I don’t know what exactly that should be, but I think much more value should be placed on mothers caring for their newborns firsthand even if they have to go back to work when they are a bit older. I do think our country should be smart about it though.
I had the option of 12 weeks but only 6 were paid and i had to use all my vacation first. My first was in the hospital for 6 days and my husband took time to be with which left him 3 days with ud before he went back to work. At 12 weeks i went back but only to work a 2 notice and resigned. With my 2nd I was part-time and back at 6weeks. My husband couldn’t take any time so he left me exhausted with a 4 yr and a newborn on day 4! America’s maternity leave def stinks!
I truly don’t know how you did that. And it looks from your name that you’re a nurse. So were you working shift work, too? Oh, dear. I can’t imagine that with a newborn that’s not sleeping!
I work at a church, so when I got pregnant I was hoping to learn that we had at least a minimal paid maternity leave policy. (You would think a church would be supportive of a new family and first-time parents!) I was extremely disappointed to learn that I will only get the my accrued sick/vacation days as paid leave- a total of three weeks. I am allowed to take more time after the three weeks, but if I don’t work, I don’t get paid. I am paid a minimal salary to begin with, and my husband is a student, so we can’t afford to take unpaid time. I am due in January and praying every day that God will intervene, because I don’t know what we’ll do otherwise. I am fortunate that I’ll be able to bring the baby to work with me, but bringing a 3-week-old baby to an office is not ideal, especially since most moms and babies are still figuring out their routine until at least 10-12 weeks!
Oh, dear, Robin! That’s too bad. I agree that churches should at least be doing more.
But honestly, this is one of the problems with not having it done through an insurance system like EI. If you expect the employer to do it, it’s just too expensive. But if you spread the cost over the entire population, it only costs the employer 2.28% (though again, that’s for ALL of EI, not just mat leave), and the employer can get someone to fill in while you’re away just at the normal cost of hiring someone.
What the studies have found in Canada is that it seriously helps productivity, so it isn’t a drain on the economy. Mothers who come to work too early (or who bring babies to work) simply aren’t as productive as the temps who fill in. And when a mom comes back to work after a year, then she’s rested and she’s bonded and it’s far less stressful, and she isn’t trying to pump all the time.
But expecting a company that only has 2-3 employees to pay for mat leave? Well, that’s really hard, because essentially they’d have to pay for you to be off, plus pay for anther employee to replace you. That’s just too expensive. Instead of paying the 2.28%, they’d end up paying 200%.
The best way to do it is to pool the cost over the populace.
I have always been opposed to extending parental leave, because it seemed like it was placing a much greater burden on the employer (to pay when you are not working) or on colleagues (to cover the work that still needs to get done), but I have never had it explained to me like this. Your post has completely changed my perspective! I can see how it is very possible to accomplish as well as a benefit to society rather than a burden. Thank you for sharing!
I’m glad, Ellen! I really do think that societies need to do this right!
I am currently 7 month pregnant and I will have no paid time off after I have the baby. I have been at this company for 4 years and I started the year with 13 days paid time off. I unfortunately had to use all of those days because I had severe morning sickness. I even had to be hospitalized once because I got so sick. No clue how my husband and I will be able to afford any time off after the baby because it will not be paid
Oh, I’m so sorry, Courtney! I’m so sorry.
Something Sheila didn’t describe beyond a passing mention is “paternity” leave here in Canada. In sum: parental leave can be split between spouses, so that in many cases, at least in the military where I used to work, if both parents are working, you’ll see each of them take six months off. In my case, having a stay-at-home wife, I was allowed to take 9 nine months off when our most recent child was born.
Strictly speaking, I am not sure that this is a very successful idea from a social policy perspective (in the sense of appreciably raising the fertility rate, which I presume would be the goal), and I don’t even *pretend* that fathers “need” as much time off as mothers, but it was a benefit that was available, so I took it, and it was pretty awesome – basically a nine-month vacation with my family.
Yes, all of my son-in-law’s friends have been telling David about that! I hope he takes that 9 months, too!
Makes me thankful I live in New Zealand. We get lots of different support for having kids. I know in Holland the government also provides in home help after having a baby. Someone comes in to help out with housework or whatever you need help with.
With regards to mothers not needing but choosing to go back to work I think a big reason for that is the isolation. Mothers can get really isolated and it’s not natural or healthy. I think this is behind the high post natal depression rates.
I tend to believe that a new mother is only as isolated as she wants to be. Staying at home with your child after they are born and beyond that does not equal isolation. You can invite other people over, you can go visit other people, go out to lunch with friends, stay involved in your church. And you don’t even need to drop your baby off with a sitter for any of that. Take your child with you. In fact, I wish more jobs allowed new mothers to bring their baby into work with them if at all possible. Or to work from home at least part of the time. I think one of the biggest disservices our modern society has done to the mother and baby relationship is to treat the baby like it ties the mother down in a negative way. I have witnessed 3 of my sisters going back to work out of necessity after having a child. If anything, I think THAT contributes to postpartum depression more than getting to stay at home with your baby does. All of my sisters dreaded going back to work and leaving their baby. And I can only imagine it was on their mind constantly during their time off. I watched them all cry about it. All I had to think about was staying at home with my kids by myself when my husband went back to work. And because of his schedule I was by myself with them for 2-3 days at a time. And I thrived. I obviously loved it when my husband came home but I fully embraced motherhood and I never once suffered from any kind of depression. None. And I rarely left the house when he was gone and I truly loved every minute of just hanging out with my kids. I was not isolated. I was fully immersed in motherhood and totally focused on the new person who needed and wanted to be with me. I wasn’t thinking about myself or what I wish I could be doing rather than changing diapers and breastfeeding. I was thinking about the beautiful bond I was forming by doing all of those tasks.
I had a great time with my kids, too! And my husband was on call a lot for 36 hours straight, so we really were alone. And it was fine. I had a lot of friends, and I went to playgroup everyday. We had an outing each and every day, and I saw people everyday. But I really loved being home. It was honestly such a blessing.
Sheila, I absolutely love it when you talk about staying home with your kids and the blessing that it was. I have heard way too many women talk about being at home with their kids like they were isolated in Siberia or something. And some who don’t even stay at home assume that this is what it would be like. And it discourages and annoys me. Where did this bleak opinion of being a stay at home mom or just plain being at home with your kids come from? Why aren’t more moms and parents in general content to just enjoy those glorious years where your children actually WANT to hang out with you and play with you? Quite frankly it is a lot of work but it is also like enjoying a second childhood with them. I get to roll around on the floor with them, give them pony rides, play with dolls and toy dinosaurs, and play on playground equipment without anyone judging me because hey, it’s for the kids. I’d rather be doing that than hanging out with adults all day. I am so incredibly blessed. And I love that you were too! God Bless you, Sheila!
I’ve stayed at home with my kids too and wouldn’t want it any other way. I know from women who have had post natal depression that feeling isolated was a big part of that. One woman from Indonesia who had it said post natal depression didn’t exist in the community she came from. My Chinese neighbours also comment about how much stronger the community is over there and I know their extended families are much more involved. I also went to playgroups, church etc and enjoyed being with my kids but still felt isolated. I’m not outgoing and don’t make friends easily but I did my best. Saying a mother is as iolated as she chooses to be is complete nonsense. Your own experience does not discount some one else’s just because it’s different
So here is my point. Some mothers need to go back to work out of necessity. And they are caring for their children the best way they possibly can. And they are superheroes in my opinion for soldiering on when all they want to do is be with their babies. But when you have a choice, I can’t understand choosing a career over the joy of seeing and holding your child all day long. Motherhood, the way God designed it, is one of the most natural, healthy, and miraculous experiences possible on this earth. It is not isolation.
Preach! 🙌
Samantha, I totally agree. I feel for the mothers who want to be home with their babies and can’t be, due to whatever reason. I think society has stuffed up royally by making home/family duties into ‘lesser’ work, and making staying at home something to be ashamed of.
I see so many young mothers who are so resentful of their children because they are no longer out doing ‘proper’ work, and as such, they are also not putting their best effort into their home making/child raising. I truly believe that a change in perspective is what is needed, for these individual women, and society in general!
In regards to the topic of parental leave, especially maternity leave, I do think that it is severely under valued by *most* western societies around the world, but apparently especially by America! My hat goes off to those mothers who struggle through and make the best of a bad situation! You guys are super heroes!
My husband and I are crunching our budget to figure this out now. We would like to start a family, but the child care piece gives us pause. Neither of us believe in day care and nannies in NYC on the cheap side are $500 per week. We surely don’t have that kind of money.
NY recently passed a Paid family leave act which would allow me to be off for 8 weeks and receive 50 something % of my pay. Then short term disability can kick in for 6 weeks which again is a percent of my salary. I know it’s a blessing to get some pay for 14 weeks but it still causes us stress. I’d like to stay home for 6 months but it’s not possible. My husband has to re- do his degree and both our salaries are needed to pay his tuition and my student loans. We considered moving but the college he attends was the only one willing to accept 45 of his credits from his university inFrance.
That sounds so tough! I hope you can figure out a good solution.
In New Zealand, where I live new parent can up to year’s parental leave. It can be used for mum, dad or split between both parents. Some parents get I think 16 weeks paid leave. The job is also held open for a year and you have to made a choice near the of the parental about whether you are returning to work or not. Some mums do go back to work and some mums don’t got back to work. Some families have a stay at home dad.
In Sweden we have 390 days with 80 % of your salary (up to certain levels, if you have a very high income you get less than 80 %) and 90 days where you get 20 USD/day. Parental leave from work is allowed for 18 months or as long as you still have insurance days to claim. You are not obliged to use up any insurance days at all during the first year, even if most do.
We also have heavily subsidized daycare. Daycare centers accept children over 1 year, so you can’t put your child in childcare before that if you don’t hire a private nanny (but very few, if any, do).
I was home for 9 months with each child and my husband an additional 9 months with each. Our oldest started daycare at three, the second was only two, which felt a bit early, but we had run out of money.
I definitely think parental leave is an investment for a society and thus should be tax based just as schools. It is cruel to both women and babies to be separated too early. Up to three years of age ideally should be spent with a parent as caregiver if possible. Some children need even more time than that (like special needs children). We have high taxes in Sweden but also more equal opportunities than most countries. We are all partial to our own system as it is what we are used to, but I do prefer Sweden’s way in this regard. But even here a lot of mothers start saying that their children need more stimulation at one than they can provide. A way of not feeling guilty for going back to work is my guess as a one year old clearly does not need daycare to thrive.
That’s interesting what you said about how day cares generally don’t take babies under a year of age. I would say the same is pretty much true in Canada. While some specialized ones may, in general, it’s just not common for people to put their babies in day care when they’re younger than a year old. It’s pretty much normal for babies to spend the first year of life with at least one of their parents at home. I think that’s a very good way of doing it!
I worked at a daycare briefly while in college and they took babies at 6 weeks. I quit the daycare within two weeks. I was constantly chastised for holding the newborns too much. They believed in letting the newborns cry it out. There’s no way in the world it’s humane to let a 6 week old baby cry it out. I broke down and cried. This is why I’m passionately against daycare. I know this isn’t all daycares, but it’s constantly in my mind.
So sad! Poor babies!
Oh, my goodness. That hurts my heart so much! How awful.
“It is cruel to both women and babies to be separated too early. Up to three years of age ideally should be spent with a parent as caregiver if possible.”
THIS. Babies need their moms. And moms (SHOULD) need their babies. I wish more than anything people would have a better respect for and understanding of the crucial bonding that occurs in those early years. For both the child and the mother.
There’s several problems in the US regarding children, childcare, and family leave. I’ll do my best to keep politics out of it (I’m very political myself and follow everything back to its legal and political source, but anyway.)
It depends not only on your state but also your company. I worked in a very unforgiving retail corporation that cares nothing at all about its employees and while I was greatly blessed to have an area manager who was a father to three and did everything in his power to make my life easier (including allowing me to break dress code,) I almost worked myself and my unborn baby to death while pregnant and ended up with an emergency C-section.
We’re barely scraping by now, with my husband swinging from job to job, but I knew from the beginning that no matter what, I was going to stay home with the baby. I’ve tried multiple from-home gigs, with each being a flop, but I haven’t given up yet – because there is nothing more important than my tiny son. I’ve gotten a *lot* of grief for it, too, especially from the in-laws, but still… there is nothing more important than my baby.
A lot of the problem is cultural. Women who have children (planned or not) are sneered at as “breeders.” Individuals may have differing opinions – and admittedly I can’t walk through a store without being accosted at least once for someone to coo over my cutie – but objectively, people don’t see babies as important. I used to watch “parenting jokes” videos until I got so sick I couldn’t stand it. They were all jokes about how hard and horrible and nasty parenting is, and how hopeless, and everyone is doomed to fail, and children are little monsters and babies are evil, etc. Working in retail where I couldn’t speak my mind to customers, I got patronizing comments, sneering comments, and some outright unbelievable (“Oh, you’re pregnant, I thought you were just fat. ” At almost eight months pregnant.)
So before it will be addressed in government, we need a nation-wide attitude shift *towards* children and babies and mothers. Otherwise… there won’t be much point, sad to say.
This has been very enlightening – and not in a good way 🙁 I’m from the UK and our maternity policy is excellent. Pregnant women are entitled to a year off work. It’s a requirement for organisations to allow this – if they fail to do so, they’re breaking the law. Once you’ve worked at your organisation for a certain period (I think it’s under a year), you receive statutory maternity pay – 6 weeks of 90% salary/full pay (whichever is higher) and then 33 weeks of £145 a week. The last 3 months or so are unpaid. However, most companies then top this up with company maternity pay – for example my last job gave you around 4.5 months of full pay.
Some companies require you to repay the company element if you don’t return to work after your maternity period, but others don’t.
Its actually compulsory to stay off work for 2 weeks after your baby is born.
I’ve got two children and have just returned (to a new job) when my son was 11 months, a few weeks ago. It’s been a fantastic benefit to me and my family – particularly as I’m currently the main breadwinner while my husband starts up his own business.
In the UK, mother’s are entitled to 52 weeks maternity leave: 2 weeks off work is compulsory and 4 weeks if it’s a manual job. 39 weeks of this will be paid: the first 6 weeks at 90% of your weekly income and the next 33 at 90% or a fixed rate set by the government whichever is lower. Everyone is entitled to the leave no matter how long they’ve worked there or how much they earn; you’re entitled to pay if you’ve worked there for 26 weeks by the time you’re 15 weeks pregnant. If your baby is stillborn after 24 weeks you’re still entitled to the full leave and pay. There is also maternity allowance for people who have just stopped work or are self-employed. Fathers also get 2 weeks paid paternity leave. There is now also a scheme for shared parental leave and pay where the parents can split 50 weeks leave and 39 weeks pay between them.
Personally we found this brilliant. After taking maternity leave I didn’t return to work but the option was always there and most people here could not have afforded childcare for an infant on their salary. Having the 2 weeks from the date of the child’s birth with my husband around too was also vital to my sanity.
Wow, that’s even more generous than we have! I think the only thing we have that maybe you don’t is that either parent can take the leave, though if fathers take it it’s only 35 weeks instead of 52.
This issue is one that I wish we Americans would get on board with the rest of the world! We have long term disability to cover lengthy illnesses and the like (also at a percentage of income, I believe); setting up a similar program for the first year postpartum should not be that difficult! Like other commenters, I feel that children aren’t valued by our society at large. By the church, yes, but that seems to be it.
I am fortunate that I was able to stay home with my child (besides a desire to do so, realizing that my entire salary would go to childcare expenses was the final straw for my decision not to return), and will be home until she is school age. That being said, I realize that there is also some resentment towards stay at home moms re-entering the workforce, and I do not look forward to dealing with that in the future!
I think, and this is just my opinion not something I have researched, that the six-week guideline here in the US for mothers to go back to work is based more on the readiness and healing of the mother’s body than on the needs of the baby. If the doctor says you’re “cleared to return to work” then companies are not going to pay for you not to work. It’s all about the almighty dollar. Not compassion, not child development, just good ol’ money. Until we prioritize people over profit I’m not sure things will change.
Reading these comments about how short mat leave is in the States is making me freak out internally. I’ve been reading a bunch of books lately on the importance of secure attachement between Baby and parents. A child who doesn’t have steady, secure attachement to their primary caregiver is at risk for all kinds of mental illnesses when they get older (depression, anxiety and ADHD are some of the things the books have mentioned). If a baby can have the undivided attention of Mom or Dad, their brain grows healthier. Mat and pat leave make for a happier and healthier society in general.
Parental leave in New Zealand (aimed at Employers)
Employees may be entitled to 22 weeks of government-funded parental leave payments. Employees who’ve worked for you for six months (for an average of at least 10 hours a week) are also entitled to take up to 26 weeks of unpaid parental leave.
They can take up to 12 months if they’ve worked for at least 10 hours a week for a year or more. Workers who have worked for you for less than six months may also be entitled to parental leave, in certain situations.
Hi Sheila,
Please provide the source, for your statement that ” why so many governments are trying financial incentives right now to get people to have children”.
In the US, FLMA is fair program. It applies to paternity leave & adoption as well as a whole host of other reasons why someone may need an LOA. It is not discriminating.
FLMA is only applicable to business with 50 or more employees, as 50 FTE
threshold is used for many regulatory mandates in the US.
As Melissa pointed out, the small business she worked for offered a LOA policy without being mandated to do so. Many small, mom & pop, family run, home based businesses, can not afford to subsidize programs such as FLMA, hence the 50 FTE threshold.
A difficult but fair question still stands – Whether a pregnancy was a choice or “an accident, not a choice” why should I as a person without children have to cover for an extended paid pregnancy leave greater than FLMA ? To just state it is necessary does not justify it in my minds, as I am already paying taxes that fund schooling and various federal & state grants for programs that fund college for next generations education.
In the US those with children already pay less taxes than those of us without children. I currently work approximately 4 months of the year, just to pay taxes. So I get to keep & decide what happens with my wages for 8 months of the year. There is no way I would support being mandated to paying more taxes to support a program I would never be eligible for. FLMA has my full support, but a clearly discriminating extended paid maternity leave, beyond FLMA, not paying for it.
Many governments have financial incentives for kids–Quebec, for instance, has paid for children for years, as do many Scandinavian countries. I don’t have time to Google it, but you can try!
I think it’s a cultural attitude that comes from our capitalist roots. As in, profits before people. And if it doesn’t hurt (or look like it hurts), you’re not working hard enough! Where I come from (Seattle), a women taking a year off after childbirth is viewed as pretty indulgent honestly. Thank you for explaining how Canada’s maternity leave system works! I had no idea! I just ASSumed that everybody’s tax dollars paid for a long maternity leave for every mother. I am glad you are spreading knowledge. I think that is a good first step in combating our negative cultural attitude toward maternity leave. I agree with what others have said – I am sure our sky high rates of PPD would be helped by giving mothers more time off work after having a baby.
My husband and I took our kids to the local park on Saturday and we met a woman there with two of her grandchildren. I told her I stayed at home with the kids and she said good for you. And she said that when she had her kids she decided to go back to work when they were still little because she felt like she should. She said if she could do it over she wouldn’t have gone back because while they thought they needed the money at the time they really could have gone without it. She said that people tend to be focused on getting things that they want rather than just getting what they need. She really wished she could have had those years with her kids instead. I thought, “wow!” What a conversation to have with all stranger when Sheila just had a post about this kind of stuff! I know the post was primarily about maternity leave, but I also think a deeper issue is that our country and the rest of the world needs to get back to valuing stay at home moms for how much they actually contribute to society. It shouldn’t be viewed as a punishment to have to stay home with your kids and to sacrifice the possibility of a career. And a stay at home mom shouldn’t be looked at as somehow being oppressed or less accomplished because she doesn’t have a paying job. To me, stay at home moms are the backbone of a healthy functioning society. Why can’t it be praised as the ideal that it should be without certain women getting all bent out of shape and calling people sexist and oppressive just for seeing the truth in the matter?
What happens if you have another baby in that 18 month window? My two oldest kids were 18 months apart. Would you get to have mat leave for the second one too?
You would have to have worked for 600 hours I think between the two babies. So you’d have to go back to work when the baby was a year old, and then work for 600 hours, which is roughly 15 weeks. If you’ve done that, then you’d be eligible for another year I think.
Sheila, I’m so glad you addressed this topic!
Like you, we were living in Toronto while my husband was doing his medical residency when our oldest was born almost 19 years ago. I was self-employed, so I had someone take over my practice and took an unpaid leave for 5 months, but my husband was able to take a paid paternity leave for 3 months after that, which gave me a chance to land a good contract job (contracts, including filling in for mat leaves, are a good way to keep working in between babies). There is simply no way that I would have been able to return to work earlier. My baby didn’t sleep well and nursed constantly. It was hard enough to leave her at 8 months, and I was lucky enough to find a daycare across the street from my office. The paternity leave was wonderful for my husband, who really got a chance to bond with our daughter and learn what was involved with her care.
I took 11 months with our 2nd baby, and 14 months with our 3rd. I found that by the time my babies were around a year, they became more active, less focused on being held by me all the time and more ready to explore and socialize. My younger 2 also transitioned straight onto whole milk in a cup, since they had been nursing and never really figured out how to take a bottle.
The combination of periods of working alternating with periods at home worked for us. Each new mat leave gave me some time with the older kids, and a chance to get adjusted. I kept up my professional skills, and actually gained some new ones by being forced to take contracts in new areas. I also had some real time with each baby, and to see what life at home with children was like. It was far easier to leave a toddler than it would have been to leave a small baby. I was also better rested and ready to go back to work, esp. with baby #2 and baby #3. Physically, it took me about 6 weeks to even get to the point where I could walk normally after baby #3, so I can’t imagine how I would have returned to work quickly.
My sense is that the really nasty “mommy wars” between working moms and stay-at-home moms were less intense, because many of us had periods of time where we were both.
You are right about the coverage issue – covering a leave of 10 weeks is difficult, covering a leave of one year is easier because you can actually find someone to do a one year contract.
Hi Cynthia! Thanks for chiming in. I couldn’t walk after baby #1, either, for about 6 weeks, and even after that it was touch and go for a few months. I just can’t imagine having to return to work. I can’t imagine it. To me, this really is a humanity issue, on par with the 40 hour work week. It really is!
And I think you’re right about the “mommy wars” too. Because pretty much everyone in Canada does take that year off, we do have shared experiences. And a lot of women go back part time as well. It really is quite different.
I agree that it’s best when employers provide paid leave to their employees when a child is born. I believe that as the foundation of society, we should try to support the family unit in every way possible. I’m from the states, and my twins were born when I was a teacher. I was put on bed rest 2 months before the end of the school year, which meant my sick days and FMLA (12 weeks legal minimum of unpaid leave) started before the babies were born! Fortunately that time ran into summer vacation, and I ultimately decided not to return to work, but I’d they had been born in the middle of the school year, I don’t think I could been have physically recovered to go back. Plus we had to pay the entire cost of our insurance plan during that time, so it was a double whammy. God was so faithful to us and had allowed us to save money in anticipation of this season. It wasn’t easy but we made it through! My husband’s current employer pays for paternity leave, which is so awesome! As a matter of public policy, I think the question comes down to whose job is it to regulate maternity and paternity leave: the government or the employee/employer? As a small business owner myself, I dream of being able to offer generous paid leave, but I wouldn’t be able to afford to at the moment. I love that so many companies in the US are taking the initiative to support families even though they don’t have a legal obligation.
Hi Lauren! I think what you said at the end is exactly the issue–as a small business owner, you just can’t afford to offer it. And that’s the thing–it really is one of those things that is absolutely too expensive to offer from the employer’s point of view. That’s why I really like the way Canada and other countries do it. We just pool it over the whole working population, so it isn’t onerous on anyone. Otherwise people working for small or medium sized businesses would never be able to get it, and that really is the majority of the population!
I think one of the tricks to implementing something like that here is: who covers the health insurance costs during parental leave? You’re talking about the relatively low EI tax in Canada, and it does seem reasonable. But in the US, most health insurance is still employer-provided; if the employer had to continue covering their portion of the health insurance premium for their employee on leave, plus that the temporary replacement, it would act as another (non-trivial) tax. (Not to mention the issue of the employee portion of the premium needing to be covered…) But we don’t have great affordable alternatives.
That’s a good question, Katie! But I think the way around that would be to continue to pay the person’s health care costs while they’re on maternity leave, but not to provide health insurance for the person filling in. In Canada, the “mat leave” position doesn’t necessarily get the same benefits as the regular position, because it is only for a time and it is only a contract position, so it doesn’t need to have the same benefits. Maybe that’s a way around it?
I believe the issue in the US links to at least one previous comment: Why should I have to take care of you/your child? If you decided to have children, that’s your problem.
Over the years, I have seen this comment almost word for word on several blogs and articles relating to benefits or assistance for American families. Until this attitude changes to one where families and children are valued, nothing will improve.
I think it really does come down to this, Mandy. I’d agree.
For my first son, I was employed full time and had saved up paid vacation so I used that plus I was given 6 weeks at 60% of my pay, and the remaining 6 weeks were unpaid. So for my oldest, I was able to take 14 weeks off, with 8 weeks having some sort of pay. Although I am VERY grateful, it still didn’t feel long enough and I felt exhausted and sad to go back to work.
For my second son, I was working part time, so I used the remaining three days of paid vacation time from when I was full time, and then took 12 weeks of unpaid leave. I was not at all ready to come back to work, even though I know I was blessed to be going back only part time and to have had a full 12 weeks.
I have had friends who needed to go back to work at 6 weeks and it’s devastating for them. Both times, my coworkers were overjoyed to have me back so they didn’t have to cover for me anymore and there was no slow transition back into work. It was overwhelming, on top of being away from my baby and trying to make sure pumping happened. Our country as a whole seems way too individualist minded, and therefore doesn’t place as much value in families and children. I think family leave is a necessity and I pray one day our country makes it a priority.
Mamas and babies need each other. It makes me ponder new mothers’ mental/emotional health, babies’ mental/emotional health, and how returning to work this early affects both.