I can’t use #metoo.
I have never been sexually harrassed at work. I have never been sexually assaulted. I was groped on public transportation several times while in Tunisia, and I have been flashed, but really nothing compared to what so many women have been sharing.
And so, after commenting on Harvey Weinstein I’ve been silent for a while because I don’t want to take away from their stories, and I think others have more standing to write on this (I really love Mary DeMuth’s take, for instance).
But there is one aspect that I’d like to talk about today for Wifey Wednesday, and that’s how men and women can see “flirting” and this crisis very differently.
Let me tell you a story.
When my girls were 13 and 15, we were taking a walk around our neighbourhood one day when a van full of guys pulled up just behind us and started whistling. I whipped around with rather a snarly mother bear face, and when they saw my face and realized how old I was (I guess other parts of my anatomy from behind didn’t look 40) they freaked and took off. I was told afterwards that I should have been flattered that guys mistook me for a teenager but that’s not the way I felt at the time. I felt seriously offended and scared on behalf of my girls (a van full of teenage boys pulls up and opens the side door? Really?).
I tried to explain to a guy recently that most women don’t find whistling at them in public to be a compliment. Instead we tend to find it threatening.
Why? Because when you whistle, you’re saying, “I notice what you look like.” You’re reducing us merely to objects that you can admire. And you’re not afraid to let us know that. And if you simply think of us as objects, then what else may you do to us?
It may not be as threatening when we’re in groups, but when we’re alone? Definitely scary. Definitely degrading. Definitely intimidating. He just didn’t believe me.
I wrote a while back in a post trying to explain to men the emotional toll it takes on women to always have a rape prevention strategy at the foremost of our minds. When we walk in parking garages, we’re taught to have our phones on, ready to speed dial 911. We scan for multiple exits. When I was a teenager going home at night in downtown Toronto, I knew to choose the subway car with the driver in it, to sit under the camera on the platform, to walk on the side of the street where the corner stores were open, so I could duck in if I had to.
We are constantly vigilant.
And you know what?
It gets tiring.
It gets tiring always watching movies where women are half-naked, because that’s what sells. It gets tiring always having to be on the alert in case something bad happens. It gets tiring as a teenager listening to stories of your friends who have been sexually abused when there’s nothing you can do to help them, and sitting in a Bible study on healing as an adult and listening to everyone’s stories of middle aged men who used to fondle them when they were kids and uncles who forced them to perform oral sex and a boyfriend who date raped them.
It gets tiring.
It gets tiring hearing in church that if you serve on a praise team you shouldn’t wear a skirt in case men lust after your legs while they’re supposed to be worshipping. It gets tiring hearing that men can’t control themselves on a beach, and so women are responsible for their thoughts.
It gets tiring if you’re out in a public place, and a guy grabs your butt, thinking it’s funny. It gets tiring when older men make comments about how good you’re looking, when you weren’t dressing to try to attract attention to anything at all.
And then it gets even more tiring if we are at work, just trying to do a good job, and sexual harrassment starts.
A good friend of mine is currently being sexually harrassed at her job, and it’s making her miserable and stressed. It’s causing her husband stress (and now she’s afraid he may end up in jail for punching the guy out!). It’s causing conflict with her boss. She’s the one bearing all the pain when her co-worker is the one who is causing it. It is all wrong.
And it is very, very tiring.
That’s why, I think, the Harvey Weinstein scandal did not stay the Harvey Weinstein scandal, and so many others are falling as well. Women are simply tired. And so there was this groundswell saying, “enough is enough!” (Reminds me of this post I wrote railing against the “boys will be boys” mentality).
What I’ve been noticing on social media, though, is that there’s beginning to be a divide in the reaction to the scandal.
Women feel angry, tired, and invigorated all at the same time, while many men (not all, but many) seem to think it’s gone too far. Are men not allowed to be men anymore? Are they supposed to be emasculated?
I just want to take a minute and say something to both men and women.
Men, your relationships with women would be greatly enhanced if you listened and understood that sexualizing women only puts distance between you.
(What I am about to say does not apply to all men–certainly not my husband or sons-in-law, and certainly not most of the male commenters on this blog, who are trying so hard to run after Jesus and love their wives. But I have seen some Christian men on Twitter push back on the scandal, and it is to those thinking like that that I write).
Yes, there are some women who climb the ladder by sleeping around, and some women obviously like the attention and dress provocatively. And, yes, you appreciate a woman’s body, and you feel like you were hard-wired for that.
But just because some women seem to want to be sexualized does not mean that all women do. And just because you appreciate a woman’s body does not mean that you should reduce her to that. God wants you to treat women like they are whole people. There’s a big difference between saying, “you look very nice today”, and “that dress makes your butt look great” (with hand motions).
This is not about protecting women, either. When I was being groped in Tunisia, I was on a missions team with a bunch of men who said nothing and did nothing to help. That made me really angry. There are times we definitely need your protection.
But do you know what we need and want anymore? Simply your respect.
What grieves me far more than the groping is believing that the male gender sees me primarily in sexual terms, and doesn’t really care about what I think. That’s very difficult psychologically to handle.
Certainly you may appreciate a woman’s body. But you do not need to mention that to her. You do not need to dwell on it. You can simply start talking to her about normal things and treat her like a person. That will help immensely. Be part of the solution to this cultural crisis, not part of the problem.
To the women: Please don’t think all men are perverts.
Every morning I turn on the news right now to see which other celebrity has fallen overnight. There are almost too many to count now (and soon it will start happening in wider Christendom. Just wait).
The temptation we women face now is to give up on men. I have heard so many women say, “none of this would be happening if women were in charge.” I understand the sentiment, but we all have issues. They’re simply different issues. Let’s not give in to the idea that women are superior than men. We are all made in the image of God.
It is so disheartening to see the extent of the problem. It is wonderful that it is coming to light, but there is part of me that is getting angry. Seriously? That many men treat women like that? A sitting U.S. Senator thinks it’s okay to grab a woman’s buttocks while her husband is taking a picture of them? He thinks that’s funny? He thinks it’s funny to pretend to grab a sleeping woman’s breasts?
And we hear of all of these media people masturbating in front of subordinates, and thinking that it’s okay because the women obviously were coming on to them. Really?
I know it’s tiring. And if you can honestly type #metoo, I would imagine it’s even more tiring. When people start doubting the stories and calling women liars, when you’ve been there, too–I’m sure it physically hurts.
How can you trust anyone now?
But, please, don’t give up.
We’re at a watershed moment as a church and as a culture right now. God is bringing things to light and bringing judgment on people who need it. But shining light has the propensity to make things look even more common than they actually are, because we are only looking at the light. We aren’t seeing all the other people who have been quietly going about their business, not doing anything wrong.
Our culture is realizing that sexualizing women is wrong. We are finally truly reckoning with it. That’s good.
But for this movement to do the most good it must be about both genders coming together to find ways to mutually respect each other.
For the #metoo movement to be most effective, it must be about promoting mutual respect.Click To TweetIt must not be about the genders separating themselves to protect themselves. It should not be a men vs. women thing. It should simply be a humanity thing.
It feels almost intoxicating to nurse anger sometimes, but reject the impulse. Yes, keep conversations going. Tell your stories, loudly and widely. Work for positive change and do not compromise on the idea that objectifying women is always wrong.
But at the same time, remember that there are far more good men out there than there are bad men.
My friend who is being sexually harrassed is having almost all her emotional energy stolen by one man right now. He is poisoning everything. But there are so many other men in her life who are not like that. There are even so many men that she works with who are not like that. Let’s denounce the evil without denouncing the entire gender.
We have covered for sexual harrassment for far too long. We have sat by and laughed uncomfortably when someone made a sexual joke, because we didn’t know what else to do. We have put up with whistling and inappropriate touching because we didn’t want to be rude or make a scene. It’s okay to say “stop”. It’s okay to say “no”.
But, please, let’s not paint all men with the same brush.
Let’s stand firm against the objectification and harrassment of women, both in and out of the church. But then let’s remember that God made us in His image; male and female He created them. We are all sacred and special. And never, ever give up on men. Pray that God will show you wonderful men who do respect and honour women. Pray that those men will be emboldened to speak out.
And, even if you are tired, please, please do not give in to bitterness. This can be a healing moment in our culture or a polarizing one. I pray, for the sake of our culture, that we will all, men and women together, make it a healing one.
What do you think? Are you feeling tired right now? What’s the best way to make this a healing moment in our culture (and in our churches)? Let’s talk in the comments!
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 25 years and happily married for 20! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 8 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
Men and women were not meant to work closely like they do in the modern world. It causes lots and lots of problems. Women should be at home.
Frankly, I disagree strongly that women don’t like to be objects. They begin as girls and try to long past it when it’s effective due to their age, clinging to with a death grip. Dressing in sluttier ways each year and flaunting it daily.
You vote the boys prom king who are alpha and treat you like objects. You want every advantage it you- from not having to swat the bugs, to expecting to be in the life boats first, to expecting men to take gunfire for you in a theater (all from your own site).
You want equality you say, while wanting to hold onto your advantages in every way. Only wanting equality where men have the advantages.
Frankly, we aren’t buying it. If you want to be treated like women, be women. Be chaste, be modest, be lovers of your own husbands and love the Lord. If you are going to act like men, force your way into men’s spheres, spit all over men’s respect, duties and the things that make men honorable and be in men’s spheres and take over men’s roles don’t be shocked when you are treated like men.
If you want to be women, be women. But not this cross dressing, brass, unladylike thing women are.
You can try to engineer God’s creation the way you like, but he already gave His ways. When you get outside them don’t be surprised if you don’t get the results you thought you’d get.
Oh, Bob, I wish you hadn’t brought God into your argument.
Do you realize that you are simply pushing people who are seeking away from Jesus?
By the way, Paul had many co-workers who were women. He travelled with Priscilla and Aquila. He called Junia his fellow apostle. Jesus met alone with the Samaritan woman, going against all convention, because he valued her as a person.
I’m sorry you can’t do the same thing. I’m sorry you are so angry.
But please hear me on this: You are not showing Christian love, and you are not following in the footsteps of Jesus or Paul right now. You are acting like an angry Harvey Weinstein.
Women are valued for their giftings in Scripture, including teaching (Priscilla was the main teacher in that duo). It is not “acting like men” to simply want to use our gifts.
Do you think that Jesus is happy with your comment? Do you think that Jesus is happy with this division? Or do you think that what Jesus wants is for both the sexes to respect and value each other? Which do you think best emphasizes the gospel?
I think Jesus and Paul gave very clear directions, which most women ignore daily (as do men). I think you ignore a great many of those teachings simply because to you your feminist ideals are more important to you than your christian faith. You prove this almost daily. You are not a warrior for Christ but a warrior for social justice.
As for me and the women around me, they are very happy with the way I treat them. Do I have a way to prove this to you? No, do I care. Not a bit. Because I hold Jesus & Paul’s teaching as the utmost importance in my life and my Lord’s opinion and not yours is all that matters to me.
As you, or at least your daughters and their children will find out in the coming years is that women never had it better than under christian patriarchy. The coming days ruled by the secular world and the teaching of Islam is going to be absolutely brutal to women. It already is but the momentum it’s gaining is truly frightening.
Bob, Jesus is about the ministry of reconciliation. Christian patriarchy is about exerting power over others.
Jesus called us to be servants of others, not abusers of others. Grabbing power using Scripture is no more Christian than holding slaves by using Scripture.
Actually, women have it very, very good in western society right now because our society is starting to recognize that women are people, too, and are taking our concerns seriously. Christians were on the forefront of the anti-slavery movement; I am very grieved that Christians such as you have been fighting against the movement to free women from sexual harrassment and abuse. Jesus would have been on the forefront of it; instead, you are blaming women for speaking up, saying that we were happier when we were controlled.
I don’t want to be happy, Bob. I don’t even want to be safe (at least not as my main priority). What I want is for Jesus’ will to reign on this earth. And that will only happen when people who call themselves Christians recognize that they may have a false view of Jesus–a view that makes Jesus into someone who wants them to take and exert power, rather than someone who wants them to go out and make disciples through compassion and showing the ministry of reconciliation.
That is what we are called to do. I would appreciate it if you would show some compassion for women victims of sexual abuse who will be reading this, rather than blaming women for leaving the home.
Thank you.
[Editor’s note: Comment has been deleted and commenter has been banned. As soon as people accuse me of being a tool of Satan and being a false prophet, I really don’t read any further. So I don’t even know what the rest of the comment said. If you want your comments to show up on blogs, it’s likely best to be, well, POLITE.
Also, at some point I just decide that people’s comments bring too much harm to the witness of Christ than help, and I am unwilling to continue a debate with a man who calls himself a Christian and yet has no compassion for women who are harrassed, and indeed blames them for it. That will not lead people to Christ, and the fact that he doesn’t seem to care grieves me terribly.]
I’m surprised so many of his comments made it through. I found them painful to read, and harmful to women and men.
Susanna, I know that’s a fine line to draw. I usually let people through the first time, and maybe even the second, but if they persist I ban it, or if they insult a commenter other than me I delete it.
I know they can be difficult to read, but sometimes it’s helpful to let at least a few through, because otherwise I think a lot of people wouldn’t believe that this is actually an issue.
When I speak up, for instance, that we really need to stop talking about how every man lusts and can’t help it, I often have readers saying things like, “but people don’t actually believe that, do they?” And so when comments come through, at least I can say “yes, this really is a problem.”
I have a young girl that I know, for instance, who is dating a guy right now who truly believes that women are lesser than men. But she didn’t know that about him until recently because he is such a great Christian who reads his Bible and worships. Women and girls need to know that this attitude is out there so we can be prepared.
Unfortunately, many women DO know that because they’ve been hurt. And I am so sorry for that. But I hope that they also understand that not everyone has had these horrendous experiences, and many people really are still in the dark that this stuff happens this frequently (and that the reason it happens is because people believe things like Bob does). So we need to shine light on this attitude and call it out, rather than just erasing it from the discussion, or I don’t know if we do ourselves any favours.
But I am sorry if it hurt those who have already been hurt. It’s all just one big ugly mess, isn’t it?
Wow. That was awful! Did he really say “Get back in the home because you were better off than you realize under Christian patriarchy”? I am nauseated reading that. I can only imagine how that would sound to a woman. Disgusting.
Real Christian men lead in the home by showing Christ-like love to their wives and children, not by shoving misinterpreted Bible verses down everybody’s throat.
This article is so well written. It calls sexual harassment the sin it is. It inspires people to do something practical and achievable to deal with the issue, while at the same time reminding women (even women that have been hurt) not to hate all men since most men “are not like that.”
So sad that one of “those men” would try to mar all that with his comments.
Just please know, my sisters in Christ, that he does not speak for me or any Christian men I know.
So, what, you treat women (your fellow humans) with respect, but ONLY if they conform to your (arbitrary) standards of femininity? That doesn’t seem very respectful to me. That’s not loving your neighbor, not as you ought to be. As a Christian, you ought to treat everyone with loving respect, regardless of their gender or how they dress or act or anything else. I don’t think God accepts excuses like “well, she was wearing pants, so she was clearly a cross dresser” as a good enough reason to not follow the golden rule.
Hey Sheila. Was wondering when you were going to dive into the #metoo topic. I was thinking about this myself recently and how wonderful it is actually. That women are standing up and people are listening. I do carry negative notion that this will not end as you pray for. I do beleive some healing will occur but some other new issue will be created. Recently our Sunday school teacher was talking and he brought up the “Our world is worse today than it was when we were growing up”. Or “The world is worse today than it ever has been”! Yeah? Have you read the Bible lately? We live in a wolrd of information and more awareness than ever. If you think this stuff wasnt happening before it is only cuz you couldn’t read about it. (Or you didn’t read the Bible). Unfortunately the response from people as to how we handle this new found public outcry will be the issue. I beleive that unfortunately some legal garbage or some famous person or even some victim will deliver a wrong message and the fearful will glum on to it and all of us will have to deal with a new issue. Sorry to be pesamistic Sheila. Its just the sad truth. People are mostly fearful and react in such a way (especially ti sex topics) that it really seems like we are loosing the war. I certainly see the latest round of uncovering as an opportunity. I like you pray for a positive outcome and growth for people.
Yes, Phil, exactly.
I’m not actually one who thinks the world is getting worse. Maybe in some ways, but my mother was born in the middle of World War II, before the tide had turned. Germany had taken over Europe. The Allies had been beaten back out of Asia. Things looked very bleak.
When the concentration camps were found at the end of the war–somehow I think that is worse than what we are going through now.
There ARE, on the other hand, places in the world where things are the worst they have ever been–places like North Korea, for instance, that have their own concentration camps. But the world as a whole? There is less starvation, less poverty, and less disease. There is less slavery (though there is still far too much, especially sexual slavery of children).
I’m not saying things aren’t bad or that there aren’t crises. But look at the American Civil War. Look at the people held in slavery then. Human nature is human nature. It is simply bad.
There are times when God’s Spirit moves and brings a revival, and I do believe that the church (and attitudes like Bob’s, above) are being shaken right now. I think that’s a good thing.
Maybe it will not turn out wonderfully, but God has always used a strong, faithful remnant. And a strong, faithful remnant that lives in authenticity and truth rather than in legalism and prejudice will always be a force for tremendous good. I pray that this is what we are becoming!
It is so refreshing to hear someone else say that the world wasn’t necessarily a better place in the past. That doesn’t mean I believe that the world is getting better. But human nature is human nature, as you’ve said. And there are plenty of stories of not-so-nice human behavior in my family history alone for me to romanticize the past (plus any study of history — honest history — will show us much that is awful in mankind. I believe many of the terrible things people point to today as evidence that the world is getting worse were happening in the past. They just weren’t openly spoken of, recorded, or as easily shared so it is easy for people today to convince themselves they didn’t happen. It is true that tools / technology today can give us power to more easily harm larger numbers of people (both physically and emotionally) today than before, but I am sure that had those tools been available in the past people would have used them. It is nice and tempting to think people in the past were so much nicer, but I don’t believe it is true. And the sharing of what is happening in today’s world can have a positive side if we use it to draw attention to problems so we can do something about them.
This the first time I have been to this site. I find it very interesting and satisfying. I am a Christian man who works a civilian job as well as serve my country as a reservists. Lately the Air Force has taken a large leap into preventing sexual assault and through their Green Dot training and is trying to show men, young and old, that woman in the military are co equal and that what use to be accepted and swept under the rug is no longer tolerated. I first went in in 1979 and came back years later to finish my commitment. The whole culture had changed and great progress has been made in making sure woman are treated as soldiers and not sex objects or less than equal to men. Many of the comments I have read here will help me understand how woman feel when men objectify them as sex objects and not people. Yes I have been guilty of that too but feel God has opened my eyes and is changing my heart as well for many years. I have learned much just from one morning of reading. Thanks!
I’m so glad, Tim! And thank you so much for your service. Seriously.
Not disagreeing with your comment, but as I’m really passionate about ending modern slavery I wanted to say- slavery is actually worse today than it ever was before.
In 1860 there were 3,953,760 slaves in the US, 25,000,000 worldwide. Today there are only approximately 60,000 slaves in the US. But worldwide there were 45,800,000 slaves 2016, a %30 higher number than in 2014. That’s almost double the amount in 1860, and every year the number rises. There are 3,287 people kidnapped, sold, or forced into slavery every day. In Libya there is a slave market which is just making news now.
I don’t want to change the subject from the blog post, or say your comment was wrong! Just saw an opportunity to raise awareness, and decided to take it up.
And I’m glad you did, Rachel! Thank you. It is important to be aware of this.
Once I had a minor health issue because of which I had to stop eating sugar (and some other things) for a while. At first I thought: no big deal. Several days into the diet, I was absolutely shocked how much sugary stuff I had been eating for years. It is quite funny because it was me doing it, I was very present at these occasions of me eating sweet things, and still, somehow I had managed to believe I had not really been doing it, or much less.
Similar thing happened when I was quitting erotic online content and masturbation. I was shocked how much energy I need to learn to channel into useful things, how much frustration and sulking I am capable of and need to overcome, how many thoughts I need to push away, how far away I am from the person I thought I was “with minor exceptions”.
Many people often do this: compartmentalize, and push aside the things they did they don’t like to remember, and stick to an image of themselves they like more. Most people want to be good, but sometimes peer pressure, alcohol, trauma, frustration, etc., can lead us to do unforgivable things.
What is happening now is shining a light on many of these hidden things. That’s good, because shining a light on such things makes it harder for people to compartmentalize, forces them to see and think about the things they are not proud of, and thus pushes them to become better. I think we can see it not as a reason for conflict, but as an overall improvement.
Yes, Dean, exactly! Thank you. I think that’s a very helpful way of looking at it.
And I’m so glad that you quit porn! That’s wonderful.
Dean, you write some good things here. Thank you. The one thing I would change: no sin is unforgivable. The horror we feel in the face of sin can produce shame, denial, selective amnesia, etc. But, thanks be to God, Jesus has taken on all sin and offers everyone forgiveness. We can look sin square in the face, call it what it is (as you have done here) and lift high the cross where Jesus paid for all sin. Some sins may seem unforgivable to me, but not to our Savior.
Thank you Sheila. It has been so discouraging. If I wasn’t married to a wonderful man who makes me believe in wonderful men, it would be hard not to give up on men as a whole.
Re: the idea from previous commenter(s) that women are asking for it and shouldn’t be in the workplace:
So when I was 14 and sexually harassed/groped, I should have been doing a better job of being a worker at home? I am a homemaker and love my husband and family well. Almost all of my sexual harassment and groping stories are from before I was an adult. I looked older than my age, which I had no control over, but I didn’t wear makeup, etc, until I was an adult. I wasn’t dressed provocatively. My parents were protective and I was never in questionable types of places. What was it that i should have done differently?
Excellent question, Megan! I love it.
Women are NOT to blame for men groping them. Men are to blame for groping women. And until all of us stop laying the blame at women nothing will ever improve.
(And I am sorry for what happened to you when you were 14. That’s such a hard age to have that occur, too! But I’m glad you have an excellent husband. 🙂 )
The way I see it, women dressing modestly and acting in a self respecting manner is a bit like wearing a seatbelt in the car.
If a drunk driver hits your car, you can still die wearing a seatbelt. If you decided no to wear a seatbelt, your injuries are still the fault of the drunk driver.
Dressing and acting with self respect is wise, but it will not stop all sexual assault. Not dressing or acting with self respect is not a ‘reason’ for someone else not to respect you!
Sexual assault is NEVER ok! I pray that men will realise that acting in a Godly way, even if a woman is dressed/acting provocatively is the ONLY RIGHT thing to do. Having the attitude that women are only worthy of your respect if they respect themselves is not the way Jesus sees people!
That’s really well put! I totally agree.
Ditto. My story is very similar.
Sheila-
I have had two experiences of dealing with sexual harrassment and unfortunately, it happened at church. I learned the hard way that not all guys who come to the Singles class are there for the right reason. I pretty much had thought all men, even Christian men, were like this. I have finally met a man who treats me with respect, is honorable, is passionate about his relationship with the Lord. He’s fun to talk to, he’s smart, but he has never crossed the line. I know that many women think there aren’t any decent guys out there, but they are out there. They are harder to find, but they are out there. Sometimes we have to wait and let God put that person in our path. I am never in any fear when I am around him that he will try something, and I think that’s what attracted me to him from the start, that I was safe being around him.
That’s wonderful, Amy! And there ARE wonderful guys out there.
The sad truth, that we’re slowly starting to realize, is that potential abusers and perverts gravitate to churches because they are so trusting and it’s a great place to meet women. They can learn to say all the right things and they can groom people to prey on. The incidence of abuse is actually quite high in churches (just watch the #churchtoo hashtag on Twitter). And it’s because of the dual culture of trusting anyone who comes in and often devaluing women’s perspectives and stories.
But this doesn’t mean that CHRISTIAN men are bad! It truly doesn’t. It just means that women have to be wise, and not assume that every guy who is in a church is a good guy or has a good perspective on women. People can quote Scripture (like Bob does, for instance) and still have this belief that women are to blame if they are harrassed. And that is dangerous. So, yes, women have to be on their guard and be wise. But that does not mean that we should give up on guys, because I’ve found an awesome guy, my sons-in-law are awesome guys, and I know so many awesome, awesome guys who truly are men of God!
Sheila, I just wanted to say – being groped and flashed IS sexual harassment and in my opinion it counts as assault. Some women have been through more severe forms of it, but it doesn’t make your experience any less valid. Thankful for your voice.
Yes, I guess you’re right! I just feel like there’s a huge difference between enduring it in the workplace like my friend is and being stuck on public transit for 5 minutes. Still traumatic, but it just doesn’t feel the same level, and I know there are so many who have gone through so much worse than me. But you are right that these things are bad, too.
Sheila,
Keep up the great work! And thank you for tackling the hard subjects and shutting down the “impolite” commenters.
You made excellent points in your blog. I believe Jesus WOULD have stood up and loved the hurting women. We need to do the same.
Thank you for showing and acting like Jesus to a hardened and evil world. God bless you!!
I think it all boils down to self-control . People (male and female) who lack it can truly act like animals. Our society has allowed our morals and values to degrade tremendously, we have reverted back to so many behaviors that should have long been left behind. When we don’t teach our kids right from wrong and we reward every behavior not just the good and we don’t set an example for them they learn that the “grey” area is acceptable. They learn by watching and if no one takes a stand and no one stops things that are “bad” they continue these behaviors they have seen. I am not a feminist by any means but I want me girls to be safe. There is a line that no man should ever cross with a female unless they are married (in my opinion) and if what you say or do to a woman without her consent cannot be said or done in front of your mom or grandmother without shame then it shouldn’t be done. I have heard countless jokes and comments that went way beyond what I wanted to hear from anyone but I learned early to put my hand up and say stop, I don’t want to hear it, I will not be a willing participant to your sick thoughts and I will not listen to garbage. I cannot tell you how many times I have had patients and co-workers say things they shouldn’t and one in particular actively pursue me on multiple occasions and I had to remind him over and over that this was not something I would be a willing participant in and finally he got the message and apologized and has a great respect for me and my capabilities now but even though I knew that was wrong and I was not interested I do not consider that sexual harassment. I think sexual harassment comes in many different ways and none are excusable or should be tolerated or taking without standing up for ourselves, I see a clear difference in something said or suggested and actually physically touching someone. Words are one thing but when it becomes physical I think it should be punishable on some level. Pretending to touch someone and making crude gestures are animalistic and in poor taste but you haven’t actually laid hands on someone. I think that’s a line that is clear and when crossed should be handled. It’s sad that this is where our society is right now but with so much anger and violence and warped images being fed to our youth it’s unlikely to get much better.
I’ve been debating about whether to add my name and story to the #Me Too campaign. But since it’s the prevailing wisdom that women rarely sexually harrass men or cross over their personal boundaries, it would probably be discounted.
Back when I was 20 years old, a woman who was an acquaintance of mine at the school we were attending (and about the same age), out of the blue, walked up to me and kissed me without my permission or consent. I was stunned to say the least because we barely knew each other and had no absolutely no emotional or romantic connection. After she kissed me, she told me matter-of-factly that the reason that she did it was because I “looked like a prior boyfriend that she used to have”. That was it — that was the only reason given.
I’d really like to know whether I was sexually assaulted or not? I was not traumatized by it but I was taken by surprise and definitely felt like she rode over my boundaries. Does someone have to be emotionally affected or scarred in order to establish whether bonafide sexual harrassment occurred?
Interestingly enough, I have several examples of women harrassing me or riding over my personal boundaries but no examples of homosexual men doing the same.
I’ll bet that you could find some readers out there (women included) who would conclude that I wasn’t sexually harrassed because I was a man and because I was bigger, stronger and presumed more emotionally resilient than the woman who acosted me.
Ed, that was definitely sexual harrassment. Most definitely. And, no, your reaction to it does not determine whether or not it was harrassment. It definitely was.
And women can definitely be predators–just look at all the female teachers who have molested students. It is very sad, too.
Joseph was sexually harrassed by Potifer’s wife! Women can, most certainly, prey on men!
Great example! So true. And she used her power to do it, too.
No, that was absolutely 100% sexual harassment! If not outright assault. Anytime someone selfishly rides roughshod over someone else’s boundaries, that’s harassment. That’s the only requirement, and your experiences meets that requirement. She did something she had no right to do without asking first, so it counts even if it didn’t leave you emotionally scarred. I mean, I don’t think I’ve been emotionally scarred by every single instance of harassment I’ve had to deal with in my life thus far, but it still counts. Just because I wasn’t hurt by all of it doesn’t excuse it.
I disagree the culture has come to a realization that sexualizing women is wrong. It’s plastered all over the news because the mainstream media knows it generates interest from the viewing public…and that equals more ad revenue.
Besides, a lot of women do a good job sexualizing themselves by their dress and conduct, in general. As long as premarital sex and hook up sites like Tinder continue to be popular, I think the “Me too” movement is going to be nothing but a fad similar to the war on drugs. We still have a drug problem, and will continue to have a sexualization problem until a heart and mind transformation takes place all over the country.
I also think it speaks volumes about the woman who brings up ***alleged*** charges of a sexual violation that happened years ago. Without corroborating evidence, it’s only her opinion she was assaulted, even if she really was. Why should an unprovable allegation be a newsworthy event, much less cause someone to lose their job? It seems to me the women making these assertions have bigger problems of discontentment and resentment of things that allegedly happened long ago than the ones being accused.
The Bible says [more than once] by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established. If there’s only one, then that person bears witness of themselves…but if that’s the case, then their testimony is not true (John. 5:31). In other words, they become false witnesses.
I hear what you’re saying, Chris, and I know many have made similar arguments, but I don’t think the lone woman accuser of the lone man with no evidence is really what we’re seeing right now.
What we’re seeing in most cases is that there are plenty of victims for each perpetrator, most who don’t know each other yet have eerily similar stories. And what if there’s a photograph? Even when there are photos or multiple victims, they’re still being dismissed.
Take the case of Al Franken, for instance. The one woman who said that he grabbed her butt told her husband, father, and sister right then, and posted it on Facebook back in 2010. There’s historic evidence of it, including Facebook comment threads. Others have photos of what he did. It’s very common that women don’t speak up right at the time to authorities because they feel ashamed or initimidated.
In fact, in cases of sexual abuse of children or teenagers, for instance, it is extremely RARE for these things to be disclosed right away. So the fact that we’re shaming women who are coming forward afterwards isn’t really fair. The normal thing is to wait because of the psychological damage that is done.
I agree that it’s much better if people come forward faster, but if the people who do come forward now are told that they are likely lying, or why should I believe you because you waited so long, then why would others come forward? If we want people to come forward faster, then we have to show people that they will be treated well. That isn’t necessarily what we’re doing. Remember, too, that it is virtually impossible to offer corroborating evidence about something that happened in secret and left no marks. How do you corroborate the fact that a guy flashed you? That a guy asked you to do something inappropriate? Unless you routinely tape all conversations, how do you corroborate that? That is the nature of sexual assault and violence; it is very hard to corroborate beyond a woman’s testimony.
Take the case of gymnast coach Nassar, who pleaded guilty today. Even though he pleaded guilty, Twitter is still full of people lambasting these girls for not coming forward sooner. They were YOUNG GIRLS. And they were being told that they wouldn’t have a place on the team if they stood up and said something. And even though he is obviously guilty, we are still shaming the girls.
This simply has to stop. He did a horrible thing. Many men in power have done horrible things to women and girls. As far as I can see, not one of the high profile people named can really be called a false accusation (and many people have far more than one accuser). So I think we should stop shaming people who are just coming forward now and instead apologize to them for creating the culture where they didn’t feel safe to come forward UNTIL now.
Chris, one of the most maddening comment is “Why didn’t you speak up earlier?”
Assault or violation of a person causes trauma and trauma causes a whole host of issues. Couple that with the fact most women are trained to not speak up, have probably already experienced trauma earlier and a culture that generally ignores the victim, it’s not a surprise they don’t speak up when it happens.
I didn’t until I was almost 40. Because I didn’t feel safe until then.
Don’t speak about something you don’t know. Get educated. My husband thought that for years. Once he realized what was really going on, he was overtaken by grief. Now he’s just angry.
We don’t make this stuff up. There’s no glory in it. We get to live with this pain the rest of our lives.
Have some grace please.
Thank you for adding your voice to this subject. I’m so glad that the tipping point has finally been reached, and victims everywhere are speaking up against those who have abused their power. I’ve been disheartened at times when people are not willing to oppose a person they don’t want to be accused; it’s so much more comfortable when the perpetrators are people we dislike…over there…who aren’t really like us anyway. But we have to wake up and realize that it’s a problem in many organizations, including our own places of work, our own political parties, our own churches even. Only when we let the light shine into this darkness can the deeds be seen and addressed with God’s justice and mercy.
I totally agree! Just because someone seems to stand up for the same causes we do does not mean they should be supported. Democrats are now saying they were wrong for supporting Clinton in the 1990s; I completely agree. But this goes beyond party. If we put party or cause before God and justice, then we are in big trouble and really have no moral authority left. If our causes, churches, and politics are right, then they are big enough to stand on their own, without needing tainted people defending them.
I think it’s important to start talking with men what it means to be a man. That it isn’t not about being some sexual animal who can’t control himself but someone who treats all women with respect, no matter who she is or what she is wearing. I think that is so important. I also feel like the #metoo campaign is missing something important and that’s the lack of talk about porn. Being a porn addict who is on a road to freedoms I can’t understand why these people don’t talk about it. Porn today often depicts women being forced to have sex and often they are shown as liking it in the end. And it is often work related and school related. What does that do to men’s mind when they watch this? They will start thinking that all women are like that and that they actually “like” what men do to them. If people don’t talk about this , this will only generate new men who will think that these things are ok. So at the same time as this movement is good it has to go further than this. It must help prevent creating new people like this. I don’t say all men become like that. I never done anything like that even if I been addicted to porn. I have a moral code and through Gods grace He is helping me be free but what about all young men who don’t have it? Who hasn’t anyone to talk about these things? And the women who also watch porn and start to think this is normal. Let me give you an example: a couple of years ago there were five youths who raped a girl in a town here in my country. When the police asked the youths living in this neighborhood what they thought about all this, they answered that she wasn’t raped. She was “gangbanged”! A clear reference to porn. These boys and girls didn’t see this as rape but as a porn scene. So this needs to be talked about
Oh, that is such an EXCELLENT point! I was talking to the friend I mentioned in the article this morning–the one who is being sexually harrassed. And I said to her, “You know why that guy thinks he can talk to you like that? Because he probably goes home and watches porn for 4 hours every night. And he doesn’t even realize that what he’s saying is simply evil. If you watch women being constantly degraded and treated like trash, you will think of women that way.”
We need to stop the scourge of porn from spreading, and that includes steering girls away from it, too!
Oh, it’s a much worse and far reaching problem than that. How many romcoms and sitcoms have we all seen where the romantic lead relentless pursues a women, refusing to take no for an answer, trying to wear her down until she says yes? It’s an incredibly common trope in TV and movies. It’s almost always presented as being sweet and romantic, although IRL such behavior is very creepy. But regardless, what always happens in the end? Why, he gets the girl, of course! So the message here is that bad behavior gets rewarded. It teaches men that women don’t really know what they want, so if you just push hard enough, long enough, you’ll get what YOU want. What you see in porn is only the logical extension of this trope, but you don’t actually have to watch porn or be a porn addict to have absorbed this toxic message, you could pick it up ANYWHERE. It’s ubiquitous. And it’s not even the media’s fault, they’re just a business selling a product. They don’t sell anything people don’t want to buy. The reason porn (and romcoms, and sitcoms) are they way they are is because that’s what we, the consumers, WANT. The fault is in us, in our very hearts. Until we can root that out of ourselves, there will be no lasting change.
But Blair, this is what happens in real life. I know several women who thought their husbands were not only not great-looking when they first met them, but downright repulsive! And now they’re totally in love with them. This usually does not happen with guys. I know of no guys who thought their wives were initially REPULSIVE and then did a 180. So REALITY teaches guys to persist and to try to turn a no into a yes.
What, does art never reflects life? It’s a two way street. Art reflects life, but at the same time art also influences our perceptions of real life, and our actions. In many ways, it serves to normalize certain behaviors. Which is probably why you don’t know any guys who initially repulsed by their wives who later on came to adore them; I can’t think of any movies with that plotline either, it’s always the other way around. So guys see that, and learn it isn’t normal to pursue a less attractive partner, so they don’t, even if they really like the person.
Very true, Blair. I’m also really uncomfortable with the number of romcoms where the plot is the “bad boy” who is promiscuous and rude and gross until he meets just the right woman, and then he totally changes for her. That’s another really dangerous storyline that we see basically all the time.
Yeah, same. It’s deeply troubling. What’s even worse is the plot that goes “bad boy meets good girl, pursues girl, girl is humiliated by boy until she learns to loosen up and falls for boy in the same end, boy learns nothing.” The best example I can think of at the moment of that is “The Proposal” with Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds, but I’ve also seen it crop up in a lot of Jackie Chan films, which guys are probably more likely to watch than the average romcom. Man, I really hate that movie.
Um, isn’t the proposal the movie where the (female) boss forces the (male) assistant to marry her so she can stay in the country? This doesn’t seem to fit with what you are saying at all…although I hate that movie for it faux ‘girl power’ message, as in, look how progressive we are, with a female in a position of power, even though if the gender roles were flipped, it would no longer be a romantic comedy, it would transform into an uncomfortable to watch drama. I might be thinking of the wrong movie, but that’s what I think of when I think of The Proposal.
Yeah, probably. I’ve only ever watched it once, years ago, so my memory of the plot is somewhat hazy. But I remember very clearly hating it, so I have no desire to watch it again to refresh my memory. But I’ll take your word for it. Mostly I remember the guy treating her like crap for about 90% of the film, but then they inexplicably end up together at the end. Wasn’t she kind of a jerk too? There’s a lot of good reasons to hate that movie, honestly.
Amen to that, Blair! I did think of some other examples of this in the romantic comedy genre, too – Life As We Know It, the Ugly Truth, maybe How To Lose a Guy in Ten Days.
Great article, Sheila! I really appreciate how much you stand up for men and women both. It isn’t, never has been, and never will be a matter of one sex always being bad/the predators and the other being innocent/the victims.
And I loved how you mentioned the fact that there are some women who do want to be sexualized but that not all women do. I do think it is a subject that needs to be discussed more though if we truly want to help both women and men in this area. There are women out there who are making the blatant choice to be objectified and sexualized. And a lot of them are in the media spotlight. I think it is very important for women and men to speak out against the choices that these women are making. I think it’s important for women who don’t want to be sexualized or objectified to separate themselves from these women and the harmful messages they are sending about women and what we want. Because you’re right, Sheila. We don’t all want that. But is it any wonder why there is such confusion among men who claim they have no clue why a woman wouldn’t want to be whistled at? They are literally receiving two different messages from two different “camps” of women. One side wants to be objectified and views lust as a way to have power over and control men. The other simply want to be appreciated, viewed and respected as an entire human being without our looks being the focal point of our existence.
I don’t think we can ignore the fact that some women are making the choice to perpetuate the idea that women are just bodies meant to be sexualized at all hours of the day and in every situation. Not if we truly want to turn the tide and send a clear message about what women with self respect (as well as respect for others) and integrity want.
Not too long ago in history, society had names for women like that.
Society frowned on that type of behavior….it wasn’t lady like.
But the tides have turned and if anyone criticizes such behavior they are accused of sl*t shaming.
Sad state of affairs really.
Women once had respect and integrity. Somehow we let it slip away in the sexual revolution. I would love to see dignity and lady likeness return to the female gender.
We need the help of men. Men need to refuse to let other men get away with such behavior.
Society still does have names for women like that…and I really don’t think those labels are AT ALL helpful, especially if the girl is labelled based on rumours or appearance, and the label becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
All women need love and respect, no matter what choices they have made.. That is Gods grace in action…loving others no matter who they might have been! Look how gently Jesus handled the adulterous woman, or the 5x married (and currently living out of wedlock) woman at the well…’go and sin no more’.
As for ‘women used to have respect and dignity’, I think you are looking at the past with rose coloured glasses.
I do agree that men should be helping by not allowing/encouraging shameful behaviour from other men.
I just want to be clear that I am NOT making excuses for men who objectify, abuse, or harass women because of the message that some women choose to send. Especially Christian men. Any man who is familiar with God, Christ, and the Bible knows how to view and treat a women. Men are still very accountable for their thought and actions regardless the choices of some women. I would just like to see women being held accountable for their actions and the harm they are causing to men and other women too.
Oh, don’t worry about that. Trust me, we are VERY much held accountable already. Disproportionately so, and that’s the problem. Being held responsible for men’s thoughts and actions is pretty much the basis for the entire purity movement and culture, isn’t it? And it unfortunately purity culture isn’t limited to the church, it just goes by a different name elsewhere. Rape culture. I like that name better, it’s much more forthright and to the point. More honest.
Blair, I am not talking about women being held accountable for the lust of men. Women should NEVER be held accountable for the lust/ inappropriate thoughts and actions of the men who make the CHOICE to think and act in that way towards women. That is NOT what I am talking about here at all. I am talking about the women who willingly disrobe, dress and pose provocatively in various forms of media and in every day life. Women who do these things with the INTENTION of getting sexual attention from men. Any and every man. Our brothers, fathers, sons, and husbands. Women who struggle with their own form of lust: lusting after attention and the power (and money) they can gain from that attention. These women are contributing to the oppression and abuse of women by creating a false picture of what a woman is and what she wants. They are everywhere in the media sending the message to men that women do want to be sexual objects. They are responsible for the mixed messages that men are getting (although a truly wise man knows better). And let me be clear, these women are not to be held accountable for the lust of men either. That is man’s responsibility entirely.
The real issue is that in our attempt to rid women of the shame of causing men to lust (which they should have never been made to feel), we are allowing women to act however they want without ever speaking out against it.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that women who intentionally try to get the sexual attention/lust of random men are no better than the men who whistle at, harass, and abuse random women? Men are being harassed and objectified by these women but we don’t acknowledge that at all. And THAT is sad.
Right on the money. Women and men have to work together in order to change the accepted standard. It gives me hope to see high-profile predatory men receiving consequences for their actions. There is a shift happening. Women stood up and said ENOUGH and men in positions of authority over the predators listened and did something instead of trying to sweep it under the rug. In order for this to continue we have to cooperate and mutually respect each other. Not all men are the enemy, not all women are over exaggerating. We can change things. I believe it.
So do I, Melissa! So do I.
I am tired of my husband having friends and co-workers ask him how he got a “hot” wife. They make it seem like we shouldn’t be together because of my appearance.
Sheila writes: ‘Because when you whistle, you’re saying, “I notice what you look like.” You’re reducing us merely to objects that you can admire.’ No, No, NO! That is not what guys are doing. They are saying they find you physically attractive – they are not saying that you are not a human being. I don’t understand why you don’t get that!
There are a lot of reasons women tend to be uncomfortable with this–as other commenters have mentioned in other posts, you don’t know if it’s just a comment, or if the whistler is going to get aggressive if you don’t respond the way he wants you to. And yes, there are exceptions, but your average woman walking doesn’t want to feel like she’s drawing sexual attention. She’s walking outside because she has somewhere to go, not because she wants to be on display, and not because she wants to know that some person is thinking of her sexually. In fact, that’s creepy. Being whistled at can definitely make you feel that men only look at you in a sexual way.
How many women saying they DO NOT like this will it take for a man who does this to realize that they should just stop?
This is all true, Kacey, but my point remains: Sheila is incorrect in saying that a guy is “reducing us merely to objects that you can admire.”
No, I’m not, Thomas. Because that is exactly how we feel. When you whistle, you are commenting on something about us when the only thing you know about us is how we look. Therefore, that is all you can possibly be commenting on. And that is extremely, extremely uncomfortable. So, please, please, please, STOP IT!
So Sheila, if I listen to a female doctor on the radio giving a medical lecture, am I objectifying her mind? After all, that’s the only thing I know about her, is her intellect.
In reply to Thomas Smith – if a female doctor gives a lecture, her purpose is to provide information or discussion. It’s normal to simply think about the topic at hand.
The purpose of a woman walking down the street is to go somewhere, not to attract sexual attention. It is abnormal to assume it’s appropriate to make sexual comments or speak to her in a way other than you would with anyone else when you meet them.
That’s an odd thing to say about “objectifying” someone’s mind, because people don’t usually make a leap from “This person is giving a lecture” to “this person’s sole value is how they give a lecture.” Is this some argument that’s often repeated? Tom Hillson also mentioned it on a different blog post.
This might be one of those moments where it is wiser to keep your mouth closed. Does the stranger NEED to know that you find her physically attractive? Could it possibly cause her harm or fear?
Very good point. Also “physically attractive” means “sexually attractive.” I understand that on one level in adult humans it can be hard to differentiate entirely between sexual attractiveness and more general attractiveness, but there is a line and I think as adults we all know when this has been crossed.
I just do not want to know what is the opinion of any random man concerning my level of sexual attractiveness – whether good, bad, moderate, whatever, I just don’t want to know. Its kind of a privacy issue. Random man is, I suppose, entitled to an opinion within his own head, but I see my sexuality as private and I don’t want private things to be commented on by total strangers.
It doesn’t even matter what you guys are really saying! All that matters is the effect your actions have on women. Overwhelmingly, it’s negative. We don’t care if you were “just trying to give us a compliment,” we still hate it. It doesn’t feel complimentary. If you were really just trying to be “nice,” then you would take it to heart when women ask you to stop doing this, and, you know, maybe actually STOP DOING THE THING WE’VE ASKED YOU TO STOP DOING A MILLION TIMES OVER!!!!!
. . . I swear, this isn’t rocket science. Just stop it already, it isn’t even working. Please. Thanks.
OK, rant over.
I don’t understand the whistle thing.has it ever worked on women? I mean I do it with my wife now that we are married but it’s just for fun but to do it without knowing her? Why feel the need to “compliment “someone in that way? Where does that need to “complimenting” women who you are not in a relationship come from anyways? I understand that it comes down to objectification. Women are seen as objects and when we see a beautiful object we want to say that it is beautiful. In this case the objects can hear and understand so men think they can tell the “objects” this. It’s wrong and the objectification must stop.But there are some “well-meaning” men who seem to think that this is what women like. Is it because our cultures says that men are supposed to “hunt” for a woman so he has to do things to get her attention? He has to pursue her and by saying things, whistlening and etc. then he may get her attention? Can that be a reason? Would it be different if men didn’t learn that they have to pursue a woman first but she actually can pursue him? That he can be he one who is hard to get?
I am only talking about the flirting thing because some men don’t seem to understand when to stop. Maybe if some men didn’t feel the need to “hunt” a woman but instead be good men that women are drawn to then maybe they wouldn’t do these “well-meaning” things.
FreeInChrist, you raise interesting issues. First of all, I’ll say again, it’s not objectification, at least not often. Now, as far as men pursuing women, what if ALL men stopped pursuing women? Watch the sadness, panic, and despair in women worldwide. Watch as women feel what guys feel all the time – lack of attention. That would be wild to watch. It might even be a welcome change for us men. But it will never happen.
I too would welcome such a change. Nothing would please me more than if guys would leave me alone. Then I would be free to live my life without fear. Fear of walking down the street alone, fear of dark parking lots, fear that a smile and a kind word will be misinterpreted as flirtatious, fear that the length of my skirt could be used against me in court as evidence that I really DID want to be raped, etc. You get the idea. I would be more willing to cope with any amount of loneliness in exchange for that freedom that men take so for granted.
So, you say men would welcome this change? As would I, and probably a lot of other women too. We are in agreement. Now all that remains is to make a plan to make it happen. Any ideas?
(I’m only being slightly facetious, lol. But seriously, any ideas?)
But Blair, men are much more likely to be assaulted by other men than women are to be assaulted by men. So why are you so afraid?
OK, let’s pretend for a moment that I believe that statement. What then? That doesn’t change the fact that my chances of being raped or sexually assaulted/harassed are STILL terrifyingly high. It’s an entirely justified and reasonable fear. But you seem think I shouldn’t worry about it just because you imagine someone else has it worse? Even if true, that’s not a good enough reason for me to NOT be afraid. If true, then we BOTH have good reason to fear, and no reason to tell the other not to worry. So I’ll thank you to keep such reassurances to yourself; I’m sure you mean them kindly, but they aren’t especially helpful.
Blair, oh, I don’t disagree with you. Women don’t like it, so guys shouldn’t do it. I just had to point out that, for many guys, they aren’t objectifying women when they do it – they are just pointing out that that particular woman is attractive.
Tom, maybe it would be easier if we called ‘sexual objectification’ by its biblical name ‘lust’. As christians we know lust is a sin but the world thinks lust is fine and to be encouraged but when it has negative consequences they give it a different name so they can condemn something they usually approve of.
Think of the words ‘wolf whistle’ and ‘catcall’ both reduce human beings to animals – which as christians we know human beings are not. You can notice a woman’s beauty and think respectably of her and give glory to God in your heart for all the beauty he has created including that of your fellow humans. When a man/boy or in some cases a woman/girl whistles or calls out something to a complete stranger, they are not giving glory to God for his beautiful creation, they are expressing their lust.
But why? Why do men feel the need to do that? I can’t lie that I have sometimes seen a beautiful woman and thought about saying something nice (not sexual) but analyzing this I realize it is that I somehow think that women need those compliments. Like because I’m a man I should somehow be nice and show her that I as a man find her beautiful. I have never done it but it’s kind of messed up. I have never thought about saying like “nice haircut” to a random dude to make him feel better? Why? We should want to be nice to everyone. English isn’t my first language so sorry if what I say doesn’t make sense but what I want to say is that all of this comes down to equality. We need to treating each other a equals no matter if we are men or women. If I don’t go around telling random dudes nice things because that would be weird then I shouldn’t do it with random women. If Someone has to be be a creep to get attention then that person needs help with his social skills.
When it comes to women pursuing men I think that real equality should lead to that too. Where men aren’t seen as the “hunters” or the ones that has to take the first step but that also women should feel free to do that. I do believe more women feel that freedome but(I can be wrong) I feel that in Christian circles it is still the man that is seen as the “hunter”. The man has to pursue and the women should be a little hard to get. Something that may change now that we focus more on equality
What I find truly disturbing is the fact that labels such as beautiful, ugly, attractive, and repulsive are assigned to the outward appearance of people so casually that most people aren’t even aware that they are doing it. Even people who claim to be offended by such labels. How disgusting is that? Men talk about seeing a “beautiful woman” and wanting to compliment her in a pure way, but if he was really looking at ALL women in a pure way, then wouldn’t he want to compliment and praise all women equally simply because they bear the truly beautiful and captivating image of our creator? That’s not to say that men should go around whistling at ALL women. But if a man is claiming to truly view women as whole human beings and not just sexual objects, then his appreciation for the true beauty and charm of women would extend to EVERY WOMAN and far beyond what the world rates women on. Besides, just because a woman has worldly beauty does not mean that she is a beautiful person on the inside. She could be the ugliest person a man could ever meet, but he would deem her worthy of praise and compliments simply because of her looks.
The same goes for women who judge men in the same way. Why do we judge people in this way?! Why do we judge ourselves this way?! It isn’t the way God looks at his children so how in the world do people think it’s ok to look at and judge other people this way?
Samantha, I can notice a physically beautiful woman from 50 yards away. I generally can’t notice an inwardly-beautiful woman from 50 yards away, or even 5 feet away. So I will notice many, many more physically beautiful women than I will inwardly-beautiful women. That makes sense to you, right?
Now if I notice a woman saying something nice or kind, I will sometimes say something to her about that. Not often, but sometimes. But probably no less than I say something to a physically beautiful woman. In each case I say something quite rarely.
You make a really interesting point Samantha. In Isaiah 53 it says” he hath no form nor comeliness, and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.” Jesus Christ, the Saviour of sinners, the spotless lamb of God had “no beauty”. Humanly speaking from a purely physical point of view he didn’t attract, all his beauty is from his divine character and his great love to his people. When Christ returns, he will gather his church, the bride who is called beautiful in many parts of scripture, and give each redeemed child a glorified body. Glorified doesn’t mean looking like super models, it means holy and free from the effects of the curse. There will be no marriage in heaven, we will all be brothers and sisters so physical attraction will cease. Our concept of beauty then will be something we probably can’t even imagine now. Physical attraction has it’s place now as one small part of God’s gift of marriage to humanity.
Sheila, thanks for weighing in on this subject. I especially appreciate your admonition for women to not give up on men in general, because for every lowlife who sexually abuses women in any way, there are many men who respect women in general, and their wives specifically.
I have a perspective that many men lack in this because I was sexually abused as a boy. I understand the trauma of it, I wasn’t able to tell anyone about it until I was 40. It still hurts and grieves me. And the view of my sexuality that was deformed because of this, sent me down a long and tragic road of homosexuality and promiscuity that God miraculously freed me from.
I do want to make one observation, which ties in with your post “Is that all he ever thinks about?” Because of the bad behavior of many men, and because the church in general does a lousy job of teaching about sex in marriage in a positive way, many women think, or feel, that sex is an “animal” thing and that a man who wants sexual intimacy with his wife is not very spiritual. Sex isn’t rejected per se, but it is way down on the list of things a couple should do together, in many women’s minds. That idea led my wife to limit and then refuse me sexually for a long time. And the sad thing is, because of those evil men, I had doubts about my own spiritual walk because I desired sex.
I think we need to balance the #metoo about abuse with a positive #metoo about Christian couples who have found the blessing that godly sexuality is meant to be. Don’t just raise your hand in #metoo. Help defeat the evil by solid Biblical teaching about sex.
So well said, Bob. I completely agree! The sexual drive is, in its best sense, a drive for intimacy, and that is a good thing. Unfortunately it is so easy to distort. But just because it CAN be distorted does not mean that it IS distorted. And we need to bring it back to beauty.
This post really moved me. I’ve never actually been assaulted or raped, but I’ve experienced the usual stares, creepy hit ons and the overall feeling of needing to always be on alert even at the park in broad daylight, while carrying my knife.
Part of the problem with men not “getting it” or understanding what it’s like for us is really not their fault, I think it’s because women tell OTHER women about these things, stuff they’ve been through or experienced. I can think of things that have happened to the women in my family, but I don’t think that family members like my dad or uncles know but my mom, sisters and aunts do. We feel safer confiding in other women, much like how rape victims want to report to a female police officer.
Only men can teach women the positives of the male sex drive.
Only men can distort them.
Only men can show women that male sexuality is a beautiful gift to be shared as opposed to a tainted, scary, uncontrollable force with a life all it’s own.
I’m looking forward to the change.
After the free gift of salvation through Jesus and God’s incredible love for us, this has to be some of the best good news that I have ever read.
I feel good to be a man, at the same time apologetic for my own misunderstandings and misinterpretations. Finding a balance of where ‘I’ fit in this world is really difficult with so many ‘alternative’ truths being circulated.
This article helps me personally to understand where ‘good’ women are coming from, what they really need. And Sheila puts it brilliantly when she writes, ‘But for this movement to do the most good it must be about both genders coming together to find ways to mutually respect each other. It should simply be a humanity thing.’
Thank you, and may God spread His love out through this great opportunity!
Shalom – Jack
Thomas Smith, what you are really saying is that you can judge a woman’s appearance from 50 yards away, decide whether or not she qualifies as beautiful based on your worldly standards of beauty, and then decide whether or not she is worthy of attention based on your judgement. An awful lot of people do this sort of thing. Some people even claim that there is nothing wrong with simply noticing that a person is attractive. But the ugly truth behind that is that while they are judging that person as worthy of attention, they are simultaneously and often subconsciously judging others around them as unattractive and unworthy of attention.
You clearly didn’t understand what I was trying to say: God doesn’t judge a person based on their outward appearance. That’s not what is important to Him. The heart of a person is what matters (1 Samuel 16:7). So, if we are to become more like God and Christ we MUST put away the worldly way of looking at and judging others. We can’t continue to indulge in the idea that some people are somehow more worthy of love and attention simply because of how they look. People need to stop being so lazy and actually get to know people before they assign the terms beautiful and ugly.