I find it very difficult to blog properly about emotional abuse.
Every Wednesday on this blog for almost ten years I’ve talked marriage. And today I want to look at the darker side of some marriages.
I’m very passionate about helping women see the truth about the destruction that emotional abuse causes. I’m a firm believer that much of the crisis of abuse in the church comes because people misunderstand what marital submission means, and then say that she should stay in an abusive marriage because he is the leader.
But at the same time, I don’t think abuse is the actual problem.
Similarly, I’m very passionate about stopping sexual assault. I believe that sexual assault is one of the worst kinds of crimes, because it hits at the very centre of our identity.
But I also don’t think sexual assault is the problem.
I think sin is the problem.
We live in a world where pride and selfishness reign. Because of that, it is hardly surprising that many women are victims of sexual assault, and many wives are victims of emotional abuse. Indeed, that was one of the results of the fall–“your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” One of the curses that women endure, and that Jesus came to reverse, was that evil men would often dominate and hurt women.
But it is not only men who sin. Women sin, too.
When I was homeschooling my girls we read Uncle Tom’s Cabin together, the classic novel about American slavery. I expected it to be caricature of southern life. Instead I was blown away by what was probably one of the top 10 novels I have ever read. What made it so powerful, though, was that not all good characters were black and not all bad characters were white. Some white characters were good; some could have been good, but they were just too weak; and some were downright evil. The evil was not all the same, either. Some were outwardly abusive, and some were just simply mean and entitled. It was the same with the depiction of the African American characters. Some were selfish. Some were lazy. And some were the absolute best depiction of real grace I have ever read.
In other words, it was just like real life.
The problem, you see, was not racism itself or the quest to dominate. The problem was sin.
Sin comes in all forms, and people will sin in different ways. No one group is perfect while another group is all bad.
That’s why I don’t want to pick sides on this blog, unless that side is simply standing with Jesus
I want to see marriages transformed, and the only way that happens is when the individuals in the marriage are transformed to look like Jesus.
Because I want to see marriages transformed, I naturally end up talking about abuse issues. That makes some people uncomfortable, especially people who are big proponents of men having absolute authority in marriage. (And I have a big post coming up next week that will challenge some of these people!).
And yet I also get criticized by the feminist camp, especially when I say that women sometimes claim abuse just to get out of an unhappy marriage. I know many families where abuse was present; and I know many families where women claimed abuse and tore their families apart for selfish reasons. Both things can be true at the same time–women can be abused, and women can improperly claim abuse–because the root problem is not abuse. It is sin.
And so with that HUGE preamble, I want to talk about something else I see: women can also be the perpetrators of emotional abuse.
I believe that emotional abuse is a worse problem for women in the church than for men, because many misinterpret Scripture to support husbands emotionally abusing their wives. Add to that the fact that most men are physically stronger than most women, and that most women are at a financial disadvantage in their marriages, and abuse in general is a more acute problem for wives than for husbands.
Nevertheless, that does not mean that men are never victims of emotional abuse. Many men are living in marriages where they are constantly criticized and yelled at; where their wives throw things and swear profanity at them; where women deny sex for years on end, and tell men they have no recourse. And for these individual men, those marriages are torture indeed.
I don’t think the church has adequately addressed this at all. When a woman goes to a counsellor and explains symptoms of what is obviously emotional abuse, some counsellors will recognize this (though not all will) and will endeavour to help her. We have a big awareness of what abuse against women looks like. When men go in and describe the same symptoms, though, in general they are not given the same level of help. They are told they need to love their wives more as Christ loves the church; that they need to learn to communicate better; that they need to learn to forgive.
We simply don’t know how to help men whose wives are narcissistic or evil.
Then there’s the issue of withholding sex for years on end.
I want to say something else controversial today. Though I know of men who are victims of verbal abuse in marriage, what I have seen more commonly, largely because of what I write and speak about, are men who are victims of emotional abuse because their wives have completely cut them off emotionally and sexually.
At one of the marriage conferences my husband and I spoke at, we were approached by a man who had been married for 25 years. When their last child was born, ten years ago, his wife came to him and told him that now the sexual side of their marriage was over, and he would have to get used to it. I hear from men who earn all the income in the marriage, who help around the house as much as they can, who volunteer in church–but whose wives won’t even sleep in the same bedroom, won’t talk to them about anything important, and haven’t had sex in years. The men have tried seeing pastors and counsellors, but the wives refuse to go. This is simply not acceptable.
And when the men seek help, it is assumed that the men have somehow caused this. Were they mean to their wives? Did they ask for all sorts of weird things in bed? Did they pressure her too much? It must be his fault!
I do believe that we should examine ourselves and be sure that we aren’t in the wrong. I do believe that we are to take the plank out of our own eye before we deal with the speck of dust in someone else’s eye.
But I also believe that some actions rise so much to the level of abuse that to ask someone what they did to cause it is incredibly hurtful.
When a woman has been physically slapped and punched around, we now know enough (at least I sure hope we do) not to ask what she did to cause it. But when a man has been so cut off from from emotional intimacy that he is completely rejected sexually by his wife, we tend to blame him. We don’t recognize how hurtful this blame is.
Certainly there may be good reasons why a wife may withhold sex: physical pain; emotional turmoil; abuse in the marriage; chronic pornography use. In many cases leaving the marriage bed is setting up a good boundary while important sin issues are dealt with! But absent these things, there really is no excuse.
It’s incumbent on a woman who is withholding sex to get help, even if she has very good reasons for having a difficult time with sexual intimacy. After all, many abusive men have things in their pasts that have led to them growing up to be abusive–but they are still abusive. And they still need to stop–or at least get help now so that they can move towards a healthy sexual relationship soon.
I think the reason we don’t recognize how hurtful withholding sex is is because we make the same mistake our culture, rap music, and porn make. We think of sex as only physical.
In July I wrote a post on why it is wrong for a husband to demand sexual favours of his wife–because it denies that sex is also an emotional and spiritual connection, makes it only about the physical, and thus says, “You are not really worth truly knowing.” You are only worth using.
When we demand something sexually we do this. But when we withhold sex altogether we do it, too. We tell our spouse, “you are not worth truly knowing.” And cuts at the very core. That’s why I think it’s emotionally abusive.
Is withholding sex in your marriage for years on end abusive? I think it is.Click To Tweet(Now, as soon as I say this, I know that people will get upset at me, and say that it’s nowhere near as bad as being physically assaulted or being constantly yelled at and manipulated or stalked. That’s okay. I think we can say that something is abusive but simultaneously say that other forms of abuse may be worse. But just because it may not be as bad as something else does not mean that it is not wrong, in and of itself).
When someone is being emotionally abusive, you can’t love them enough into stopping.
In fact, “loving” them like that often just enables the behaviour. It makes life very comfortable for them. And people only change when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of change. If we want people to change, then staying the same must have consequences.
Hear me very clearly on this one: Jesus does not want people stuck in pain and not growing. Jesus wants people to look like Him.
When our “loving” is allowing our spouse to live an unfulfilled, empty life where they are depriving themselves of intimacy, then we are likely not loving well.
To love someone is to want the best for them. That is why I tell women whose husbands are being abusive that they must draw boundaries and confront. And that is why I would like today to tell the men the same thing: your marriage will not get better and your wife will not be healed and look more like Christ until you draw boundaries and confront her inability to be vulnerable and intimate.
That can be done in a kind way. It can be done (and should be done) with the help of a third party counsellor who understands the danger of walling yourself off from intimacy. It can be done without rejecting her as a person.
But I think that we have a real problem helping men in abusive relationships, because we don’t give them any recourse.
I’m not sure exactly what we should do, only that we simply must do something. So can we talk about it today?
What should a husband do if he is being constantly belittled, insulted, or called names? What should he do if his wife has withheld sex for months or years? How can we address this better as a church community? Let’s talk in the comments!
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 25 years and happily married for 20! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 8 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
Another question to add: what if you see a wife acting this way towards her husband? How do you talk about it? Especially if she / they seem to be in denial?
That’s a great question. I know I’ve seen women just criticize constantly. And yet it feels so rude to tell a friend, “I’m concerned about what I see in your marriage.” Yet I think that the discomfort that we feel is likely worth it. Maybe that’s part of the sacrifice that we make to God when we do the right thing?
This is my dad. He is only ever loving and gentle to my mom, but my mom has had huge expectations over the years of him basically being a mini god… which no man is. She doesn’t raise her voice at him, but just as loudly communicates her disgust for him. Quiet cutting remarks, instantly shrugging him off whenever he touches her, etc. All the while smiling at others and acting like she’s a spiritual fountain. I’m quite positive their sex life–which she already considers a necessary evil–is close to non-existent. I feel so badly for my dad!!
That’s so sad! And what makes it just as sad is portraying the idea that she is this saint. That’s quite common with abusers. No one else would believe it because on the outside they look perfect. And that makes it even harder for the person enduring the abuse.
This describes my marriage almost exactly. I’ve tried being as considerate as I can be, doing unto her as I would have her do unto me, reliably providing a living, and being firm in my commitment to the marriage covenant, even though she has abandoned it. Sheila is right. I have made it comfortable for her. So how do I make it uncomfortable? What do I do? What do I say? How do I say it?
BCMan just left a great comment with step-by-step instructions, and I’d recommend reading that! It’s great.
And I’m so, so sorry that you’re going through this. This is not what God wants for marriage, it really isn’t.
Paul at The Generous Husband blog and The Curmudgeonly Librarian has a series of blog posts about confronting wives who deny sex. It is similar to the list that BCMan put up on this blog, but I’ve seen at least 6 blog post about this on their blogs. They describe a list of steps one can take and they have entire blog posts dedicated to each step.
I believe their steps are biblically sounds and entirely reasonable, but they sound very difficult to implement. For you, unfortunately.
Same here!! So sorry. Absolutely dont know how to love and not enable. Sooo hard.
Thank you, Sheila! This is something that hits very close to home in my extended family, and it absolutely needs to be talked about. What I’ve seen is basically two sided abuse (physical and emotional) in which both husband and wife are guilty and each feels that the other’s sin excuses his/her own. Such a sad thing to see. I am very proud of my husband, who continues to address the problem and speak the truth in love.
That’s so tough! It’s amazing how we can cement these horrible behaviour patterns to one another. That must take courage for your husband to stand up!
Thank you for speaking on this! I’ve noticed this for years in my extended family as well, both my husband’s side of the family and my own. It is sad and frustrating to see.
I have been thinking about this topic lately! When i look at the marriages around me, I have seen this quite frequently. 🙁 It is a huge sin issue that I do not think christians are dealing with. I think a control issue is many times at the core of why spouses emotionally abuse. From those i can see around me who treat their spouse in a controlling way, (telling them what they can and can’t do, being manipulative, witholding sex) it is typically the stronger personality of the two who are being controlling and a person who grew up never feeling like they were good enough. Christians really need to examine their hearts in this area, esp if you have either of those 2 traits. It is plain out wrong.. We can not control another person. And It needs to be talked about more so that people deal with it and it doesnt continue for years! Thanks Sheila!
http://www.jewelsonpurpose.com
I’m going thru this now and I’ve gone from someone who had confidence and self esteem to someone who feels worthless,dumb,unattractive ,and so on this past weekend was are 18th anniversary she went to the bar for her friends n day and got so drunk she blacked out I did what a spouse should do and took care of her she took her wedding ring off at the bar and lied about it when trying to talk to her about what had happened all she could do was insult me ,call me names and tell me how I’m no good then don’t even get me a card for are anniversary I felt real great
I was in an abusive marriage for 24 years. I lived with harsh relentless criticism and tolerated verbal abuse on a regular basis.
I’m happy to report that our marriage has been free from abuse for the past three years. I’m 100% certain it will continue “abuse-free”.
My advice to men in abusive relationships. You are in your current situation (to a large part) because the first few times your wife engaged in abusive behaviour, she got her way. She received positive reinforcement for her negative behaviour. By accepting unacceptable behaviour, the unacceptable behaviour became acceptable.
Don’t expect your wife to change. First, you must to change yourself and your response to her behaviour. Instead of positive reinforcement, provide negative reinforcement for her bad behaviour.
Sheila wisely advises “draw boundaries and confront”. Here’s the step by step implementation plan I used effectively to end my wife’s abusive behaviour in six weeks:
• Get clear on your boundaries. What is the specific behaviour you will no longer accept or tolerate? Write it down (don’t skip this). I wrote “I will no longer tolerate demeaning or belittling speech”.
• What are the exact words you’ll use when confronting that behaviour? Write them down. I wrote “you have a right to feel frustrated or angry; you don’t have a right to demean or belittle me”
• What will be the negative consequence if she continues her behaviour? Think of an action you can take immediately that will clearly show that you no longer tolerate her old behaviour. My action was to end the discussion immediately and leave the room.
• What are the exact words you’ll use to communicate the negative consequence? Write them down. I wrote “stop now or I’m ending this discussion and leaving the room”.
• What is the new behaviour you want her to exhibit and the reward for exhibiting the desired behaviour? I chose resuming the discussion in an environment of mutual respect and working on the resolving the underlying issue that she was angry about.
• What are the exact words you’ll use to communicate the desired behaviour? Write them down. I wrote “I’ll be glad to resume the discussion in a mutually respectful manner and work to resolve what you’re angry about”.
• Anticipate how she will likely react. What are her “go to” strategies she has used in the past when you’ve attempted to stand up and confront her? Does she:
o Deny her behaviour is abusive?
o Justify or rationalize her behaviour? “I do x only because you do y. If you stopped doing y, I wouldn’t have to do x” or “this is the only way I can get you to listen to me”.
o Deflect and play victim? “I do x but you do y which is so much worse. In fact, you’re the one who should apologize to me”
• Ignore completely whatever she says in her attempt to derail you and restore the status quo. Responding to her specific derailment attempt takes the spotlight off her bad behaviour … and she wins.
• Firmly repeat what you said and start implementing the negative consequence.
• Practice practice practice your lines until you’ve memorized them and can say them without getting flustered in the heat of the moment.
Execute your new plan.
You may see an escalation in abusive behaviour as she attempts to restore the status quo. STAND FIRM.
After the third implementation within a 6 week period, the verbal abuse stopped completely because it was no longer effective. The new habit of mutually respectful discussion proved more effective.
Sorry for the long comment. Hope this helps.
That’s GREAT, BCMan! That’s such a good, practical example of what I mean by implementing boundaries. And I believe that what you’re saying is exactly right–people tend to be abusive because it helps them. The first few times they did it it worked, and it becomes the new normal. So we have to disrupt the “normal”!
I also really agree with you about not participating in the verbal dance about how you caused it and you did this and you did that. No. We talk when you’re ready to do so calmly.
And if you have children, it is much healthier for a child to see a parent react this way than for a parent to allow yelling and belittling to continue.
I feel that I ought to offer some encouragement to the guys who try this and find that it doesn’t work, and there will be some. I know because I am one of them. After nearly four decades of enduring all of the behavior in your article and more I finally discovered that my wife suffers from a personality disorder. Evidently, she would rather not be married to me than to respond to my efforts. She says that boundaries are abusive. If you try this and it doesn’t work seek out a Christian therapist who can help you. I found a trauma therapist who has helped me understand not only why this was happening to me but why I put up with it far so long.
Very true, Steve! Many abusive people–men and women both–do have personality disorders. Often narcissism, but others as well. And then there really is very little that you can do.
I’m glad you’re willing to tackle things like this that go under the radar of so many. The people that don’t seem to have a voice really need one!
Shiela…I’ve been reading your blog for a few years now and this latest post is hands down the most poignant and articulate one of all time. (OK…so the 3 part series on Do Not Deprive was pulitzer worthy too) Absolute top shelf stuff. And aside from where it hits and speaks into my life I’m struck by how open ended you left it…which clearly communicates that you don’t even know some of the answers to these questions. So bravo.
To me there seems to be several different tracks of abuse in this post. In some cases and marriages they could be interconnected….the emotional…verbal…and intimacy. And while BCman has offered some very helpful insights and recommendations to his and perhaps others challenges…they do not speak to my specific situation. My wife is not verbally or emotionally abusive (in that same way) as has been expressed in this piece. so I’d like to ask a few follow up questions of you.
Like any marriage mine has seen its fair share of challenges…but since the onset…the honeymoon to be exact…its been very clear that my wife has significant issues around intimacy. Both emotional and physical. We have been married for 18 years…the last four have been void of almost ANY physical contact and most of our marriage it has been sexless.
We have been in counseling for just over 2 years and made some really good progress on some major relational issues…ones that our counselor, (and I think rightly so) says must be fixed before addressing intimacy issues. But I have come to the point where I think its time to finally address my wife complete and unchanging will to ignore this huge wall that hangs between us.
And this blog post of yours hit me right in the heart. You articulated so many things that express EXACTLY what is present in my marriage and how it impacts me. The fact that she has walled herself off to any kind of intimacy with me at ALL. And that it REALLY does communicate to me…that I am not worth truly knowing. And no amount of selflessness, love and dying to myself will ever make her change. She did suffer abuse in college and simply refuses to address it.
So my question is…how do I “push” her…without “pushing her away”? How do I speak out about the reality of our marriage without her feeling like I am rejecting her as a person? Or making her feel like she “is not enough”? I totally believe that our marriage will simply live at this plateau until she allows herself to become vulnerable and transparent and to really address this struggle.
SO…MY QUESTIONS. What kind of boundaries or lines in the sand can be drawn (similar to BCmans for verbal abuse) that could address “intimacy abuse”? What action steps can I take to communicate to her that this just isn’t OK anymore?
Ultimately I know she will not change unless the Holy Spirit softens her heart. Nothing I do will ever change her.
How could you make a sexless marriage work for 18 years?!
How did you cope man? Porn?
testosterone inhibiting drugs?
Do you have a naturally low drive that helped?
What could you have possible done to stay sane through this? Or im guessing you didnt stay sane…that somehow issues crept into your marriage…like afteraffects?
Im really curious…what kind of issues are you tackling with the consellor atm?
What makes it impossible to tackle this intimacy issue alo g side the other issues?
Nat,
One word.
Jesus.
Good answer!!! The best thing we can rely on!
Sheila this is a very good topic and I think not enough is said about husband abuse by wives. I confess that for many years I was guilty of verbally and emotionally abusing my husband. I never cut sex off, but I yelled and used emotional histrionics to manipulate. I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, and came to Jesus at age 19. It took many years of the Holy Spirit speaking to me, sometimes very firmly, and of counselling with a Christian counsellor, as well as reading books by Christians, to see what I was doing and then to change. I wanted to change, but it came slowly. My husband was very patient and loving, but there were times when he said, “I really can’t take this anymore.” I thank God for all He has done to heal and change me and to heal our marriage. Thank you, Sheila for daring to broach a subject that may not be accepted very well in this day and age of hyper awareness of women being victims [and often rightly so]
Oh, thank you so much for sharing your story! And I’m so glad that your husband hung in there and helped you see the truth.
My best friend was so verbally and emotionally abusive to her husband, that it completely wrecked him for months. They eventually divorced, which I was glad for because she wasn’t willing to give up alcohol and stop her abusive behavior. She’s not doing this in her new relationship. It’s very discouraging to me to watch this.
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That’s so sad. But it’s especially sad when someone is so mean to their first spouse, and then is quite kind to the next. It’s a dynamic I’ve seen a lot. And I do think it has to do with the fact that some people will put up with terrible behaviour, and others just won’t. So it changes how people act.
can I ask you a question, without trying to sound like a jerk?
How do you stay “best friends” with a person like that, where that kind of behavior is obvious? Have you spoken to them about it? If you did, and they didn’t change, how do you stay best friends with them? Or maybe you did, and I’m reading too much into that.
I mean, I’ve had some male friends (and a few female friends, but its mostly male), or at least those I’ve tried to be friends with, whose behavior at some point had me just avoid them, and we stopped being friends/acquiantences all together.
Behaviors ranged from language/cursing issues, to the way they treated not only women but just other people (rudeness, unkindness), to too much drinking (I’m a lightweight, and after I found out I can turn into a mean drunk, I never touch the stuff anymore) to even smoking (can’t take the stench) and political views (being obnoxious about it).
I admit I’ve chickened out more often than not in saying something to get them to address these issues, but for the most part I just stopped trying to be friends or associated with people like this, and we just dropped away from each other. For the most part, I think this was best, but for some of these people, I really regret doing it, because for other than these types of issues, I really liked them otherwise (some people just can’t stop smoking or drinking, for example, being addicted to those).
Or maybe I’m reading too much into your comment.
This is a problem that is near and dear to my heart.
Please, for the sake of men in abusive marriages, keep writing about it.
They need to know they are not alone.
Ok, so question: I’m in an essentially sexless marriage (less than 6-8 times a year, last 3 years, nothing), for 25 years. But I wouldn’t describe my wife as anything close to whats in this article. Sure, she can be critical at times, but I wouldn’t say anything out of the ordinary. She’s also a perfectionist, but again, not badly so. Truthfully, I wouldn’t describe her in the terms of this article.
But sexually: its just total indifference. I constant hear from her:
– Its just not that important to me.
– Its not like you’ll die without it
– I’m just not interested in oral sex for you (but I like it for me)
– I’m just not interested in lingerie
– I’m just not interested in manual sex for you or for me
– I’m just not interested in positions other than missionary or me on top
– I’m not the touchy, lovey-dovey type
– Once every other month should be enough for you.
– This is just the way I am, so deal with it.
ETC.
And she’s not mean about it, really. Just states it matter of factly. Every once in a while I get the “thats just the way men are” sighs and putdowns, but really, its not done in a mean way.
In every other aspect of our lives, she’s great. Really. Loves the kids, other people, friends, the church, etc. Works hard. She is kind to me in every other aspect.
Am I being emotionally abused? I’m not sure. I feel lonely, sure, and rejected. And my self-worth is in the toilet, but is that a result of the lack of sex/rejection/lonliness? She doesn’t put me down, so I don’t think that.
Is it possible to be emotionally abused from one bad aspect of your life?
Hi John,
I’m so glad you saw this post, because I was thinking of your previous comments as I wrote it.
I am so sorry that your marriage is like this. Truly.
I’d say this about your self-esteem issue: she may not say anything mean, but she is rejecting you as a person. She is essentially saying to you, “you are not worth knowing”, since sex is really a deep, intimate knowing of each other. That cuts to the core, and will likely continue to cut to the core. Yes, you can run after God and base your worth in Jesus, which is so important, but in a marriage relationship, this is not what God intends. He put you together to ALSO feel intimacy and love from each other.
So the question becomes: what is the most loving way to treat your wife right now? And I don’t think that enabling her to keep on as if nothing is the problem is the most loving thing, because she is walling herself off from intimacy (and usually when someone rejects sex they are also pulling away from God and not being intimate with Him either). They also usually have an issue with trust with God, even if they look like perfect Christians. They may keep themselves busy, but they’re walling themselves off.
So can you see a counsellor and talk to church leadership and ask for some help in this? Can you tell your wife that you will no longer pretend with family that there is nothing wrong? And can you express this in a way where you’re saying, “I deeply love you and I want so much more for you and for us, and this has to stop”? I think getting a good male friend or mentor to walk with you through this is likely important, too. It sounds like she has such deep seated issues that need to be dealt with and that God wants to deal with in her, but right now she doesn’t have to because her life is great. I do hope that helps!
We went just went thru 9 months of counseling with one of our pastors and his wife. The first 2 months were both of us going thru one-on-one, individual inventories of biblical marriage/roles/etc. After that, I insisted that we approach this issue, and suggested we use “Intimacy Ignited”. Needless to say, it was a battle going thru it. Battling over frequency – she’d insist that its wrong to “make” her do it more then she feels like/needs to (ie, once a month at most). Spent about a month battling that. Romance (thats not who she is), giving, affection, etc. Quite frankly, she baffled the pastor and his wife, since she insists there’s no abuse in her past.
But, she seemed to relent. I also realized that theres a bunch I need to work on, and am making a genuine effort to do so, and also to be very patient in the process. We made love once a month for 3 months, twice in the 4th – but I’ve come to realize thats only because she had surgery, because it would put her out of action for a few months. But here we are 4 months later, and we only have done it once, and again I’m hearing things like:
– Its going to be a long while before we get back to “normal”. Except she’s back to work full time, church full time, just about everything else full time. But not sex, which we’ve argued about a bit. I’d point out how much improvement she’s had in so many areas except this one – “That’s different”.
– Affection and romance is still just about nil from her (I’ve been improving my affection and romance despite it)
-the times we have had, I’m still doing all the “work” – lots of foreplay (including oral) for her, almost nothing for me (“bump and grind”, kissing, back rubbing)
-We’re also going thru “Cherish” by Gary Thomas – which has a pointed chapter about you can’t cherish your spouse if you aren’t actively trying to meet their sexual needs. But I’m starting to hear things like “being content” and once/twice a month being enough in our discussions. To which I say, being content is a christian attitude – to a point. And I won’t be content with what we had in the past.
Still, I will say things are better. I hear a lot of good things, talk, and attitudes from her in our discussions and talks. But no action. So I’m hoping things will get better. We have “maintenance” meetings with our counselors now (we were doing twice a week before), so I’m hoping to bring it up next time.
Also, and probably more important for me: I’ve learned/am learning with better ways to deal with the rejection. I’ve learned that if I cherish her, love on her, work to meet her needs, even if mine aren’t met, I’m happier. So I’m clinging to that. Clinging like a drowning man, but still clinging.
Thanks for talking about this from both sides Sheila.
My paternal grandmother and 2 out of her 3 daughters do this to their husbands. It was awful to watch. I felt so bad for my uncles (not my grandfather so much. He was pretty much a jerk too).
My parents seem to have lost their minds recently. On further reflection, they’ve just built a lot of dysfunctional communication habits. Aka, not doing it. I wouldn’t say it was abuse, exactly. But it’s not good. My sister has flipped out on my parents (my dad particularly) and I’ve told them they are both being really mean and need to stop. We’ve seen a bit of improvement. Though not as much as we would like.
My mom is willing to work on her stuff. My dad stonewalls though. He just refuses to talk about things. He ignores everything he doesn’t want to deal with. Or he deflects and plays the “poor me” card (guilt and blame. Or dragging up the dead cows). He’s extremely critical and just Won’t. Let. Things. Go.
I know his role models were terrible and his personality makes this very hard. 35 years of it more or less working probably doesn’t help. It’s just so frustrating.
Is there anything a grown up child can do? Especially if said grown up child doesn’t have much of a relationship with him (he was never there growing up. Using work to avoid issues). Or should we just pray?
That’s a tough one, Alchemist. I think that just calling him out IN THE MOMENT is the most important thing to do. I’ve had to talk to my daughters about this when they’ve gotten into dysfunctional ways of communicating with each other or with friends. Not nearly as bad as what you’re describing, but the problem is that if you try to bring it up afterwards (“You often talk about things that are in the past, and it just makes it impossible to create good relationships now”), you’ll end up getting into ridiculous conversations about whether or not he actually dredges stuff up.
So the important thing to practice (and it takes practice), is that as soon as he brings something up, you stop him and say, “Dad, you’re talking about something that is over, and I’d prefer to focus on today and what we can do to build a good life today.” And practice that, over and over and over again. And don’t let him get away with anything.
Unfortunately, that may not work because you don’t have much of a relationship with him, and thus likely don’t have many conversations. But I think the one thing I’ve learned is that you have to bring stuff up right when they’re doing it, even though that’s super awkward.
I see a lot of comments from people saying they observe male victims of emotional abuse in their circle (extended family, etc). Be very careful about making judgments! Even within your family of origin, let alone extended family or friends, you may not have all the details. What looks like a male victim may actually have another side. Sometimes abusers (especially narcissists) are VERY GOOD manipulators who excel at making themselves appear to be the victims when they really are the perpetrators. What may, from an outside perspective, be male-directed emotional abuse, may be the wife setting boundaries, making the best of a terrible situation, etc. The husband may talk about ‘his’ side while the wife keeps the more damaging truths to herself. Then the families, children, churches, friends, etc. take sides (and voice opinions!) and end up causing more hurt to the one who is being hurt most. So, please, be very careful about ‘diagnosing’ abuse in other people’s situations (unless you’re their professional counselor).
Thank you so much for starting a conversation on this topic. I would love to see resources on how to talk to our sons about this. There are so many resources for girls on how to deal with an emotionally abusive relationship, but so, so little for young men. We have recently gone through a situation with our teenage son where we believe he was being emotionally abused by a female friend/crush. Trying to help him through this (while they still see one another through extracurricular activities and share many of the same friends) has left us feeling like we’re making up what to do as we go along. I realize this likely isn’t as serious as when this occurs in a marriage, but I do believe our beliefs about and patterns of behavior in relationships start early in life.
W: This is what I’d recommend for my sons:
“What Women Want When They Test Men: How To Decode Female Behavior, Pass A Woman’s Tests, And Attract Women Through Authenticity” By Bruce Bryans
Not written from an explicitly Biblical perspective, but over all Biblically sound. Specifically addresses how to respond to an “abusive” woman.
I have a medical condition that caused some weight gain so my wife went and got a “hot guy” for a 4 year affair. Verbal and emotional abuse was pretty regular. It’s real. I dont even know what healthy boundaries even look like anymore.