Can sex be hot and holy at the same time?
Every Monday I like to post a reader question and take a stab at answering it, and this week’s is all about our attitudes towards sex–and what we think God thinks about sex.
I received this really fascinating question earlier this year:
I need your help to correct my thinking patterns! I have been doing your 31 Days book and have been reaping benefits already. I am trying very hard to embrace my sexuality and learn that it is good to receive pleasure from my husband. But then, God brought some scripture to mind that seems to…not contradict…but I don’t understand how to embrace my sexuality, while still be this meek and quiet woman of God.
Titus 2:3-5
Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.To be sexual, I have to release control, not be self-controlled. To be sexual, it seems too desirous, not reverent. To be sexual and to receive pleasure without tensing up and worrying about whether or not I’m being a good little Christ follower…I feel like I have to temporarily forget all I know about who Christ wants me to be. I know I’m missing something. I want to think correctly, but I don’t know how.
Wow.
I thought about how to answer this–how to do a big defense of sex that is both hot and holy.
But the more I looked at it, the more I realized that wasn’t the problem. It wasn’t that she didn’t understand sex; it was that she didn’t understand God. And I think many of my readers are in that same boat.
So let’s look at some theology today (and don’t worry–I promise this won’t be boring!).
Being self-controlled doesn’t mean being in control. It means not letting sin control you.
The Bible talks a lot about control, but I think we misunderstand what is meant by the term “self-control”. We think of someone who is always aware of their surroundings; who is always proper; who isn’t carried away by emotion or passion, but instead is calm and logical.
We think that to be self-controlled means to be in control.
But it doesn’t.
Who is supposed to be in control of our lives? It certainly isn’t US. It’s God. That’s what it means to walk in the Spirit–that God is in control.
When the Bible talks about self-control, it’s not asking us to be in control; it’s asking us to not let other things be in control.
Here’s another verse on self-control from the same chapter above:
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age–(Titus 2:11-12)
So to be self-controlled is to say no to ungodliness and worldly passions–or the passions that consume us and take us away from God.
Here’s another way to look at the same thing, from Ephesians 5:18:
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,
So instead of letting wine control us, we’re to let the Spirit control us. That is what being self-controlled means–that we live a life led by the Spirit. To try to be in control by ourselves is actually the opposite of what God wants, and He has another term for that: living by the flesh. Romans 7 and 8 are great chapters for seeing the difference between the two–Romans 7 is all effort; Romans 8 is all life by the Spirit.
And so let’s look at some opposites today–what words and phrases characterize a life led by the Spirit vs. what it means to live a life led by the Flesh. Obviously this is the “grace vs. works” dilemma, but I don’t want to use those words, because most of us are used to that debate. I want, instead, to look at new phrases that would fall under each category, and see how this impacts our view of God–and ultimately our view of sex.
Does the way we think of God impact how we think of sex? You betcha! Click To TweetLife in the Spirit
- Passion
- Knowing God
- Pursuing God
- Having God’s Vision
- Living in the Moment
- In Awe at the Beauty of all of Creation–even our bodies
- Worship and Intimacy
- Gazing Up at God
- Purity as a Matter of the Heart
- Being Missional Matters
- “He’s not a tame lion, you know”
- Faith is Messy
- Valuing Extravagant Love
- Love is over all
Life in the Flesh
- Effort
- Understanding God
- Pleasing God
- Making Detailed Plans
- Being Constantly Disciplined
- Taking Satisfaction in Doing Things God’s Way
- Orderly and Understandable
- Looking Down to the Tasks at Hand
- Purity as a Matter of the Body
- Being Proper Matters
- God wants us to follow specific rules
- Faith is Quantifiable
- Valuing Being Right
- Truth is over all
If I could sum it up, I would do so with John 10:10:
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
Here’s the clincher: when we believe that the thing that God wants for us most is discipline, we will miss out on great sex. But we will also miss out on intimacy with God!
I am not saying that the things in column 2 are wrong, by the way. Truth is good (Jesus, after all, is the Way, the Truth, and the Life). Discipline is good. Pleasing God is certainly good.
But these things must all be done in the light of column 1. We cannot truly pursue God without also wanting to please Him; but many people are trying to please God without actually pursuing Him. They’re trying to live a life of rules without any relationship at all.
Do you see the distinction?
That’s why when you see verses like the ones this woman quoted that would naturally fall under column 2, we must read them in the light of column 1. It’s not that they don’t matter; it’s just that they must be viewed through the lens of an extravagant love for God and God’s extravagant love for us.
My heart is hurting today because I truly believe that this is the root of so many marriage problems–a profound misunderstanding of God. We think that what God wants is for us to be proper and right. But what God wants is for us to be totally sold out for Jesus! And that’s going to be scary, and it’s going to be a leap of faith, and it’s going to mean you’re not in control. But boy is it fun!
Now let’s get back to sex for a moment. Think about a few of those words from column 1:
Passion. Revelling in the Moment. In Awe at the Beauty of Creation. Intimacy.
You know what that sounds like to me?
An orgasm.
Seriously. If God made sex partly to reflect his relationship with us, then that orgasm is the height of being out of control; of being truly intimate; of becoming one with someone else; of revelling in relationship. That’s the picture of what our life with Christ is to be!
Too many Christian traditions have focused so much on living a life of rules that we’ve missed the boat. We’ve focused on trying to understand God and trying to be the one denomination that is totally “right” that we’ve missed how to KNOW God.
And if you don’t understand how to have real intimacy with God, it’s very unlikely that you’ll be able to let go enough to have great sex with your husband.
Hot and Holy Sex
In The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, I have a whole chapter on how God made sex to be both hot and holy–and how being “hot” is actually very pure in God’s eyes! If this just doesn’t compute for you, please pick up the book. Don’t let yourself be stuck without really understanding how stupendous God wants sex to be in your marriage.
Check out the book here.
I’ve written before about how being a control freak won’t work in the bedroom, but it goes so much further than that today: The way we view intimacy with God and the way we view intimacy with our husbands is so inextricably linked.
God isn’t understandable. Jesus isn’t a tame lion, as C.S. Lewis said. He doesn’t want us living a nice, orderly life with rules. He wants us taking that leap of faith and walking out on the water! He wants us knowing His vision, but not necessarily His plans. He wants trust, and faith, and intimacy, not rules and discipline and head knowledge.
The Pharisees had the rules and discipline and head knowledge, and Jesus came to show them they were wrong. And yet we have replaced our own version of it, especially within marriage, with demands for authority and rules and discipline and gentleness in a way the Bible never intended.
Let me end with an Old Testament story that speaks to this.
The ark of the covenant (the most holy piece of furniture that lived in the temple, where God’s spirit literally dwelt before Jesus came and gave us the Holy Spirit) had been captured, and wasn’t in Jerusalem anymore. David decided to bring it back to the temple, and he did so with great fanfare–parades and worship.
Here’s 2 Samuel 6:13-16, talking about what happened when David’s wife Michal saw this:
When those who were carrying the ark of the Lord had taken six steps, he sacrificed a bull and a fattened calf. Wearing a linen ephod, David was dancing before the Lord with all his might, while he and all Israel were bringing up the ark of the Lord with shouts and the sound of trumpets.
As the ark of the Lord was entering the City of David, Michal daughter of Saul watched from a window. And when she saw King David leaping and dancing before the Lord, she despised him in her heart.
Afterwards David had a talk with his wife, and he said this (verses 21 and 22):
David said to Michal, “It was before the Lord, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the Lord’s people Israel—I will celebrate before the Lord. I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes.
To follow God is not dignified.
And marriage–the act of marriage–is not dignified.
And that’s okay.
Let me suggest that if you can’t be undignified before God in worship (at least in private), then you will have a very hard time being undignified with your husband.
So let’s get a different view of God. It’s not about being right. It’s not about understanding everything. It’s not about being proper. It’s about living a life in the Spirit, and that’s not controllable.
Let me know in the comments: Do you get what I’m saying? Have you struggled with this in your church or your marriage? How did you resolve it?
I’d love to chat about this more, because I really believe that THIS is the root of so many problems. Let’s help each other!
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 25 years and happily married for 20! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 8 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
This is something I struggle with, because I was the proverbial wild child growing up. It took me a long time to realize that I could have sex that was physically awesome and emotionally intimate at the same time. That it was OK to use what I had learned about my body and how a mans body without feeling “sluty”, or able to separate certain act/positions/etc without seeing other people. I’ve made progress, but still not completely there yet, and this helps.
I’m so glad, Monica!
I wonder how did Apostle Paul embrace his sexuality. He was never married. Did he eventually become too spiritual and holy that he didn’t think about sex at all. Your thoughts? Thanks!
Okay, I’ve just thought of another dichotomy! (Seriously, I was driving home from Ottawa last night after visiting my daughters, and I was thinking of all these dichotomies for column 1 and column 2. It was fun!) But I thought of another one in the shower just now (sorry if that was TMI).
Creativity vs. Tradition
It’s not that tradition is bad; Indeed, I’m a “traditionalist” in Gary Thomas’ Sacred Pathways description of the ways we all like to relate to God. I love liturgy.
But tradition for the sake of tradition is dead. And so often we focus on “the way things should be done” that we leave God out of the equation.
I think the creativity vs. tradition thing could explain a LOT about our sex lives, too, don’t you? 🙂
Can you all think of other dichotomies? Just leave them in the comments! This could make for an interesting discussion.
Thanks for this great article, Sheila. I especially like your list of dichotomies. What comes to mind to me is the whole faith v works issue which is so similar to your passion (spiritual) v effort (flesh) dichotomy. My hope is that your readers will truly be able to have the faith that leads to unbridled, unafraid passion in a godly marriage that leaves not a trace of guilt.
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Amen! It really is a faith vs. works, grace vs. deeds, etc. etc. It’s effort vs. acceptance. I want people to catch that glimpse–that doing the right things IS good, but it has to be for a bigger purpose. And when we can catch that–there’s so much FREEDOM!
I struggle with this in church. My church is so dignified it drives me crazy. I know I’m a passionate person and sometimes I just want to let go like David did, but then I get caught up in worrying about what others would think.
Great correlations in this post – many don’t know God and it results in warped theology and practice.
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Thanks, Nylse! I know worship at church is such a contentious topic, and so difficult! I’m more of a free-form worshiper (if that’s a term)–I like getting more into it. But I totally understand people who are more sedate. That may just be a personality issue and personal preference.
But if we’re sedate when we’re just alone with God–if we can never really let our guard down–that’s a problem. Sigh. And I think that’s a lot of what we have–this emphasis on being proper. It reminds me of Miranda Lambert’s song My Momma’s Broken Heart, for any country fans!
I love this Sheila! To be honest as I was reading column 2 and I was thinking “but these are all awesome things!” 🙂 and I was so glad to see how you have explained it. That when we do the things in column 2 in light of column 1, then that’s LIFE! For many years I lived on Column 2 – serving God, doing my best without truly understanding the depths of His love. Once I came to understand His great love (still learning!), I realized I was not supposed to toss out the discipline, focus, order and many of the things you’ve highlighted, but do them as a result of love, not to earn it. When love is the driver, it changes everything!
I am so blessed to see how all these works in to marriage, Sheila! I have not seen it explained so well..I am challenged in all sorts of ways! Thank you!
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Thank YOU for your comment, Ngina! I’m glad it blessed you. And, yes, Column 2 in light of column 1 IS life. Abundant life. But so much of the time we miss out on that because we forget about the life-GIVER. And, amazingly, that affects our sex lives.
I don’t think people realize how much our spirituality and our sexuality are linked. It’s because they’re both about intimacy, I believe, and they’re both about that deep desire for intimacy that God created us with. Because of this, if we can’t be truly intimate with God, we’re going to have a hard time being intimate with anybody else. We can’t let our guards down.
Perhaps if the church realized how connected the two are we’d do a better job of talking about sexuality.
I feel many people have been taught that worship must be quiet, and reserved to be reverent. And although I believe the things of God ARE holy and to be respected and revered – never to be taken lightly or flippantly. Biblical examples of Worship and Praise to God involve more than sitting quietly with our hands folded. Your classic example of David shows that. There are many, many scriptures that speak of clapping our hands, raising our hands, lifting our voice, shouting to God, praising him involves our whole being. Football is a huge sport here in the US. People give themselves wholeheartedly to the sport. Loyal fans decorate their houses in team colors, wear clothing to identify with their team, pay lots of money to attend games, paint their faces, wave flags, signs, whoop, holler and yell till they are hoarse, sit in traffic for a long time, plan their day, weekend and even weddings around football schedules. If only everyone would worship God and be devoted at that level (ok so painting your face might get weird LOL) but if we would plan our lives, our actions around Him and give ourselves totally to him in the same manner – what a difference it would make in our lives and in our nation.
Wow this is good stuff! I love all the comments, especially what Ngina said. It saddens me to think that some women actually feel guilty about sex with their husbands. I have my own struggles in the bedroom, but guilt is definitely not one of them. Ladies, the marriage bed is undefiled! Why would God create sex and orgasms if He was going to dump guilt on is for experiencing them? No! Guilt and condemnation comes from Satan, and he is the one robbing you of intimacy and freedom and LIFE and a marriage that reflects Christ to the world. I say each time any thought of guilt comes into your mind about sex with your husband, bring it captive to the obedience of Christ.
Absolutely! So good.
Sheila,
Another great article. Passed it on to my wife, as I do with many of your articles. She struggles with control in the bedroom and being a “good girl.” Always nice when she relaxes and goes with the flow.
On a different note, my 17 year old daughter was telling my wife and I about a girl she follows on YouTube. Her name is Katie. Can you guess her last name? Funny, I told her I follow her mom.
Keep the good stuff coming.
Thanks,
Erik Z.
Aw, that’s great, Erik! And I’ll pass your good wishes onto Katie. Today’s a bad day for her because it’s a week since her bus accident and she has to take the same bus tonight after her night class. So she’s a little freaked out!
OK, question, if you get totally carried away in how good the physical feels so that you can respond you are no longer focused on your husband and it just becomes about a physical sensation. How do you balance that?
Are you talking about that you just focus on what feels good for you and you aren’t thinking about him? Are you talking mentally?
I HAVE to be intentionally focused on what I’m doing physically. And I’m not going to share all the intimate details…but it’s what works for both of us and keeps me from accidental triggers of abuse.
What I found is that I talked to him about it. I asked him. And his answered surprised me. And gave me the freedom to let go and enjoy the experience.
Women (from what I’ve read) are a LOT more mental about this than men (although that changes as they get older I’m learning)…
The only way I can think about balancing it is to talk with your husband.
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I would agree with the lady who said talk to your husband about it. I think you have to focus on the physical in order to let go and enjoy it. When my hubby and I talked, he said, “When it comes to sex, you have to be a little bit selfish, and that’s ok.” He told me this because our struggle had become the fact that I had been making it all about him. And it became a chore, not something I was desiring at all. But he, like most men, wanted me to not just be a “willing” wife, but also be a “wanting” wife. So shifting my focus back to ME has been the best thing for HIM! And us.
Yep! Great advice.
“Let me suggest that if you can’t be undignified before God in worship (at least in private), then you will have a very hard time being undignified with your husband.”
So true. And something I struggle with a lot. I have a huge fear of intimacy and vulnerability, with anyone. I have a longing to join a church and become part of a real community, to get to know other believers and experience some of the Acts 2 fellowship that we are supposed to be all about. I’ve had small tastes of that at times and its been amazing, but then I get scared and run away from it. I feel like I’m always guarded and unable to let go and be myself, even at home. In my marriage its more emotionally that I stay pretty guarded. Sex itself isn’t something I struggle with. But it feels purely physical. I’ve never experienced the emotional/spiritual intimacy through sex, because I won’t let myself go there. But you are right, I’m the same way even when its just me and God. I don’t think I know how to worship.
So, I know all this. But what I don’t know is how to overcome it.
This so me too! I hope you can share some of your breakthroughs in the near future :(.
This is a subject I have debated many times. And it is not a subject that gets preached from the pulpit…. although I think if the media/radio/etc exploits it, we should preach what God desired for sex and the beauty and value thereof. Then the amount of people having sexual relationships out of marriage would be less.
Intamacy/ spiritual orgasim was not a problem, but when it comes to the physical act with my husband, it is a different type of worship to reach levels of that intimacy.
As I’ve searched for solutions, I find the world gives advice that works to stimulate & feed the carnal nature.
I would like to know – how to stimulate the desire to have sex without feeding the carnal/ fleshly/ lust/ vulgarity …
It’s as if I am either worshipping my husband or self.; but how to gel worshipping God in the act.
To the ladies who commented re not reaching the intimacy/ the secret place, I would just like to encourage you that it starts with the heart & wanting to.
Then speak to God, praise Him, pour your Love on Him and the Holy Spirit will lead you…
This was brilliant. I keep wanting to repost bits and pieces, but it’s all so good! Totally sharing on my Marriage Moments facebook page. God bless your ministry!
Hi Sheila, I’ve been following your blog for about 2 years now – my mom referred me ? I really loved this because although letting go is not something I really struggle with, I lead a church with my husband and I know this advice will be so helpful for a lot of our ladies. I’m quite young (23), and so when it comes to counseling I rely heavily on the Spirit and God’s Word because I’m lacking in experience. So I’ll be keeping this post handy for reference when any questions like this pop up ?
Thank you so much for your honest, Godly, wise and funny posts! You’re impacting more lives than you know x
Great article Sheila! It really gave me a lot to think about. My husband isn’t a Christian, my first thought was, “how can we experience the spiritual and emotional intimacy”? But I think I can be doing much more in intimacy with God and, therefore, how intimate I am with my husband. All I can do is I can do….. with God at the helm.
PS How was Katie last night?
Katie did really well, actually, Lisa! I was talking to her on the phone while she was busing home, and she was feeling good. Thanks so much for asking!
That’s great to hear!
I think this is a problem in many Christian churches that is not just showing up in our marriages, but also in how we raise our kids, how we relate to our wider church family, how we do life. Often we say that it is all about relationship but then we live like it’s all about the rules. We raise our kids to obey, but God never said we should teach them to obey. (He told us to love Him with all our hearts and minds and strength and to teach this diligently to our kids DEUT 6) We equal purity with boring. (When in reality it means giving our heart fully to God) We think holiness is neat and tidy. (But the work in the temple was a bloody, fatty, aromatic bbq 🙂 We care more about being right then being righteous. (Which means we were all wrong and yet are accepted through the sacrifice of Jesus) If we would just get how much God desires to have our heart, if we would just understand how much God loves us. if we would just live like we actually believe that it was all paid for with a precious price. it’s a scary thought to live like that. It’s not predictable or tidy. But it is so so chock full of blessing and overcoming and victory and passion and love and losing yourself.
Love this! (“But the work in the temple was a bloody, fatty, aromatic bbq” – your comments are always so funny!)
Shelia I want to thank you for this article that I stumbled upon today. I have found in my own life that to understand orgasms and sex, being holy, is just to sit back and look where they came from. God made the body, so is it not safe to say that he made the orgasms and the parts of the body that produce them.
I often think about how people in general view God’s love. I started to view God’s love as one straight line above the world that everyone is trying to achieve. But that is really not the case at all. Now I know that God’s love is like to parallel lines, when you are at your highest in life he is right there and when you are at your lows in life he is right there. So people should understand that God’s love is like NO other love in this world and there is nothing that can separate us from it.
Thanks again for your post,
Rob
That’s beautiful, Rob! Thank you!
Oh and my favorite definition of self control:
It’s choosing one thing so fully that all other options are irrelevant. (Sounds pretty passionate to me)
I believe sex with your spouse is supposed to reflect the passion, abandon, nakedness, and knowing we are to have with God, which is why idolatry and adultery are so closely related.
You are right, many of us not only have wrong views of sex, but also wrong views of God. I love your side by side list. Dead on!!
So poignant. I think you’ve got something pretty profound there.
Whaoo! this a great one am really blessed. May the Lord increase you in Wisdom.
Absolutely excellent Sheila. I LOVE how you’ve brought fresh revelation of God’s heart & linked it to marriage & sexual intimacy. Thank you.
If you can’t get undignified in worship then you can’t get undignified with your husband.
Girl, that alone is a motivator to buy the book!
This is gold inside and outside of the bedroom. My husband and I have been growing inside the bedroom, and I always wondered if enjoying it so much was a sin. It has also been a learning experience. While we were hardly considered virginal when we wed, we still had to learn this about each other, and things got even more complex after I had our son. I’m enjoying this journey with him and I’m always so surprised to see how uninformed Christians are about what’s allowed and what’s not. Thank you for not allowing us to continue on in ignorance.
I think down-playing aspects of God’s character in order to appeal to a broader audience has something to do with this. God isn’t a fuzzy cloud of good feelings. Nor is he a strict school ma’am or some kind of cosmic police-man. God is frequently described as or associated with storms and fire. He loves us fiercely and jealously. His voice shakes mountains. He holds stars (read giant nuclear reactors) in His hand and has a two edged sword coming out of His mouth in John’s vision. These are not tame, prim and proper images that are used to describe him.
A study of God’s love for us could be fruitful. All the passages in the prophets where God describes His love for us. They are pretty passionate. And God decided to make marriage as a representation of His relationship to us.
Song of Solomon.
Godly women are not always prim and proper. Deborah led the armies of Israel into battle. Jael killed an enemy by putting a tent peg through his head. Moses’s wife saved his life by circumcising their son and touching Moses with the foreskin. That does not sound demure, dignified and quiet to me.
This excellent article by Timothy Keller
http://www.christ2rculture.com/resources/Ministry-Blog/The-Gospel-and-Sex-by-Tim-Keller.pdf
Yes! Marriage is supposed to be a picture of God’s relationship with His bride, and what He asks of us is complete surrender, utter abandon and release of *everything* we are in response to Him. He calls us to hold nothing back, to cling to no vestiges of our own control, but to trust Him enough to *relinquish* control. How can we properly depict that by holding back with our husbands?
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Rachel, I read that three times. That’s really deep.
Honestly, I love getting freaky with my husband. Who else can I do that with? Bring out the toys! Get some variety! The marriage bed is undefiled! Husbands need their wives to want sex and not view it as check mark off a to do list. Keep God in the middle and the sex hot; you won’t end up a statistic.
Lol!!
THANK YOU for this discussion. I’ve been so ready for “church people” to discuss sex. My husband and I have GREAT and HOT sex if I can be so bold 🙂 Before we were married, we were celebate and we talked allot about this. And over time it just keeps getting better. I do have one question: Is it wrong to use profanity with one another during this time? We’ve both prayed about it and we like to use it during this time, but not sure how God would see it. The words are good the way we use them. Any insight you have on this point would be appreciated! 🙂
WOW!!! Very profound and very good!!!! Gives me something to think about and work through for sure!
You have me until undignified. I believe that dignity upholds the marriage union and is what enables us to be submissive and uninhibited with our husbands. Jesus exhibited giving even the woman at the well dignity. Sex can be carnal, lustful, desirous, steamy, noisy, you pick but dignity and sanctity should never go out the window. Sexual intimacy should deepen our bond, never detract from it. Sex isn’t to be self fulfilling but to be mutually fulfilling. We really need to create a culture in the Christian bedroom that professes we understand more than how to have sex, we understand why to have sex.
How we act in private with our husbands will always be different than how we act in public. No one does with their husbands what we do with our girlfriends. Application is important. This was a great explanation of intimacy verses being in public. A swooning man and woman does not look reverent….so we cannot have both apply to our different relationships. We make out with husbands and hug and kiss a girlfriend but we do not do with our girlfriends what we do with our husbands and we should never do that in public….so the application of private life versus public life is a great topic that sometimes we who cam from shallow backgrounds need to see in writing. What does a private life look like?