Today I’m beginning a 3-part series on how we should reframe the messages that we give young people about sex and Christian modesty.
As a Christian sex blogger I get so many emails from women who grew up in the church whose marriages were really hampered by shame that never should have been theirs, and I think we simply need to take a good look at what we’re actually saying, and then figure out how to say it differently.
Heads up: I’m about to challenge the Christian modesty message: the one that says that women need to dress very modestly, because unless they do, they will encourage lustful thoughts on the part of guys and lead them into sin.
I think that’s a dangerous way to frame it–dangerous to girls, and dangerous to guys, too.
But before I do that, I need to point something out. Let’s look at a pendulum, with “Girls can cause guys to lust and so must cover up” on one side, and “Girls can wear whatever they want and guys should deal with it” on the other. The problem is that when you argue against the first premise, people think you’re arguing FOR the second. So if you’re not arguing A, you must be arguing Z. But what if you’re actually arguing M?
I’ve written before that modesty DOES matter, and I do believe that. So please don’t accuse me of saying Z when I’m really saying M!
Okay, now with that intro, here goes! I’m going to deal first with how the Christian Modesty Message errs, and then look at how we can reframe it so that we’re still honouring God, respecting ourselves, and respecting each other.
How the Christian Modesty Message Got Off Base
The Christian modesty movement gets its starting premise from this statement by Jesus:
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matt. 5:28)
(NIV)
So lust is a really big deal! And if that’s true, then women should do what they can to reduce the chances of lust, right?
Well, let’s take a look at this for a moment. Why did Jesus say this? Basically, in those days if a Pharisee saw a woman coming down the street, they would avert their eyes and walk to the other side of the street. Women were seen as temptresses, as evil, as shameful.
And Jesus put the burden right back on the Pharisees: “It’s not her fault if you lust. Lust is YOUR problem.”
Jesus was trying to remove shame from women and replace it with righteous sorrow for sin. That’s a good thing.
And yet what have we done?
The typical Christian modesty message places the burden back on the girl again by making rules for how women should dress.
I’ve sat through events aimed at preteen girls which told them how many inches below the clavicle their shirts can be. I’ve been at homeschooling track meetings where girls were given measurements about what they should wear when running, and I’ve seen some families requiring their daughters to run the 1 km race in a long “Little House on the Prairie” skirt. And I wonder: What does this do to the girls?
I asked that question on Facebook last week, and one woman wrote this:
I grew up covering my body and its curves to help men not sin. We had to wear skirts and dresses to the ankle (at least that’s what we preferred: that allowed to to play Little House on the Prairie and hide my unshaven legs.) sleeves couldn’t be shorter then four inches off the shoulder. The neck line had to fit two fingers from the pit of the throat. Anything that cut deeper into the chest was immodest and “oh my gosh! Fix your shirt!” Nothing could be tight so as draw attention to the chest or hips. We weren’t even allowed to wear smooth fitting skirts-they all had to have enough gathering at the top to just flow over the body and not stick to it. How ridiculous we must have looked to others when we played homeschool baseball or basketball on the driveway. At fourteen my mother accused me of looking at my father with a sexual eye and told me that all men only want “one thing:sex” and that it was on their minds all the time. The way I dressed would help them not to sin.
I know that is an extreme example, but I have seen it in real life. And I think even when Christian modesty isn’t enforced to that extreme, it still has some negative repercussions, like these:
Legalistic Standards for Christian Modesty Teach Girls Their Bodies Are Dangerous
If your body can cause someone to sin, then your body is a source of shame. It’s something dangerous, lust-inducing, almost sinful, in and of itself. If the mere sight of your curves can cause someone else to err, then your curves must somehow be bad.
I know this is not the intention when people teach modesty. I’ve heard of the “secret keeper” approach which says that what you have is lovely, but it’s just yours, and it isn’t to be shared, and I think that approach can work. But often it’s laced with the message that if you don’t keep the secret, you lead others into sin.
What happens, then, if someone really does sin? Let’s say that you’re date raped, or someone says some derogatory things about your body. You now believe that it is your fault because you’ve grown up thinking that men cannot resist seeing curves, and so if they act inappropriately, it must be because they saw too many of your curves. It puts the burden for sin in the wrong place.
And if women start feeling shameful of their curves, as if their body is the enemy, how in the world are they supposed to start liking their bodies and being comfortable sharing their bodies with their husbands once they get married?
If you’ve been taught from the time you’re small to worry about your body, it’s really difficult to start seeing it as a good thing that can bring you and your husband pleasure. The very fact that he wants pleasure from your body seems somehow twisted already.
When I was a teenager I worked in a Christian bookstore. A woman who had only recently become a Christian worked there part-time. She was 30, single, and drop-dead gorgeous. She could have been a Victoria Secret model. She dressed very fashionably, but also very modestly. No cleavage, lots of turtlenecks (it’s Canada, after all), and nothing too tight. Yet week after week the elders would sit her down and tell her that she needed to dress more modestly because men were lusting after her. Her clothes were not the problem–it was her beauty, and she could do nothing about that. They were calling her beauty sinful. She finally just went to another church.
Legalistic Christian Modesty Teaches Girls that Boys “Only Want One Thing”
The Christian modesty message also says that boys are basically helpless to withstand this onslaught of seeing girls’ curves. All guys, including all older men, will lust if they see you. I’m not sure how that message is supposed to make women like men.
When I was 19 years old I went on a summer missions trip to Tunisia. It was very scarring for me, because every time we were on crowded public transport (which was quite a lot), men would literally feel me up. I could never tell which man it was, because we were jammed into buses, but I’d have hands all over me. When I got back to North America it was about two months before I could look a man in the eyes again. I had tried so hard the whole time I was there to not catch anyone’s attention, and it didn’t work. Men became the enemy.
The typical Christian modesty message does the same thing: it pits girls against boys. But let’s face it: If a guy will fall into lust because he sees a girl with a V-neck T-shirt on (even if there’s no cleavage), what in the world is he going to do if he walks through the mall?
Legalistic Modesty Teaches Girls that THEY Don’t Lust
I’m going to let my daughter explain this one. I think she does it very well:
Legalistic Christian Modesty is Just That: Legalistic
We’re told in 1 Timothy 2:9:
I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
Dressing modestly is important. But notice that the text does not define what decency and propriety is. When we start to define it rigidly, then we are becoming legalistic. What is modest in one culture is not modest in another. There aren’t absolutes. When I was in Kenya, showing cleavage was less offensive than showing bare shoulders (though the children’s home where we were didn’t show either). Things vary by culture. The spirit is important: we all should be modest. How that is lived out, though, is ultimately up to the individual, and should not be imposed, or else you are adding to Scripture.
It’s interesting, but one of my friends pointed out that in the Old Testament, the dress that was criticized was unisex. It was very clear: men should look like men; women should look like women. Women have curves, and I think that’s okay.
Let’s Change the Christian Modesty Message!
1. Point to God, not rules.
Whatever we do, we are to do it to the glory of God. So when we dress, we should be glorifying to God. Teach young people, both guys and girls, to ask themselves that question: am I portraying myself as a child of God? If everybody asked themselves that question, a lot of problems would go away anyway. And having girls dress modestly for the wrong reasons doesn’t glorify God. He cares about the heart, not the outward appearance.
2. Don’t give a double standard.
Dress codes are fine, especially at teenage events, I think. Most schools have dress codes (no spaghetti straps, no low-rise jeans, etc.). But if you have a dress code, it should be focused on both guys and girls, not just girls. So say something like, “Girls, no string bikinis, guys, no speedos. When out of the water, T-shirts should be worn by all at all times.”
3. Allow for beauty
Another woman on Facebook wrote this:
I too was taught that it was my responsibility to dress so that guys didn’t lust after me. Even if I dressed modestly but looked pretty that was a problem because when a much older guy made unwanted physical and verbal advances toward me it was my fault. After all, how could I blame him? I was told that If I wasn’t “so pretty” or if I wasn’t “so fun to be around” then none of this would happen. It was hard because I was never really taught how to enjoy my body. Things were either unflattering / too big or were “too sexy.” The line between the two extremes was not explained… I developed my own style and have loosened up, but even after a year of marriage, I still struggle with knowing how to be sexy at home and what is too sexy for out in public.
So many households and churches talk so much against what clothes to wear that they never talk about how to be beautiful. Most girls yearn to be beautiful. Let’s start talking about how all of us are fearfully and wonderfully made; how the urge to be beautiful for women is universal and God-given; and then show girls how beauty doesn’t need to mean sexy. You can be totally lovely without twerking, so to speak. Beauty is not the enemy, and we need to acknowledge that girls want to be beautiful, and guide them about how to be truly beautiful.
Tomorrow we’ll ask whether the purity culture contributes inadvertently to sexual hang-ups, and whether there’s a different way to frame it, too.
Now I’d like to hear from you: how did the Christian modesty message affect your view of your body (or did it?) How are you teaching your children? Let me know in the comments!
If you’re struggling with understanding sex, enjoying your body, and not being ashamed of it, please take a look at my book, The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex. It’s a fun book, and it explains in detail how God made sex to be intimate emotionally, spiritually, and physically. I think you’ll find it really helpful in dispelling some of the negative things you were taught!
Other Posts in The Healthy Sexuality Series:
Does the Christian Purity Message Make Women Ashamed of Sex?
Do We Need to Stop Using the Term Virgin?
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 25 years and happily married for 20! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 8 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
If I may be so bold to comment on this.
A woman’s body is a work of art. And God is the artist. He may created her body as a Picasso or as a Michelangelo or as a Rembrandt or as a plain Jane. God created the woman body, so be proud of what God created you to be.
I’m not a woman obviously but sometimes I look in the mirror and say “God what where you thinking”, but I remember God doesn’t look at our outsides, he looks at our hearts.
So please, don’t be ashamed of your bodies. They are only temporary hosts in this temporary world.
So true, Matt!
Also, your daughter GETS IT! And is really good at explaining things. And this is coming from a creepy 41 year old (soon 42 on October 31st) LOL.
I read your comment to her. She smiled. 🙂
Sheila, it’s interesting reading this (and other posts you’ve done in tthe same lines) because coming from a different culture, I didn’t think North American culture had this particular issue with modesty.
I like how you opened the post, that there’s a middle ground and for me that “middle ground” is what Katie said in her video & your conclusion – base the message on Scripture and allow practical guidance to be based off that.
Just the other day, my husband and I were watching a wedding video and i quipped “an American Christan would be horrified by our dance moves!” (we are from Kenya) 🙂 It’s true that modesty can be cultural sometime, i am learning that in a big way since moving to a new culture. That’s why it’s important to be grounded on Scripture because everything else shifts and turns depending on where you are standing.
Hi Ngina! I remember when a Kenyan dance troupe from the children’s home where we visit did a tour across Canada–and scandalized everybody. They had to change their routine! It was actually too bad, but what they were doing was just considered sexual here, even though it’s not considered that way in Kenya.
Modesty really is cultural, and there isn’t a universal standard at all–which is why legalism doesn’t work.
So glad you’re here today!
Thanks so much for starting this conversation, Sheila! As one who has struggled with body image her own life, I so want to raise my girls differently. To celebrate and love their bodies and to find things that make them feel pretty in too. Those clothes are out there but sometimes it takes some digging. And I always tell my girls, look, the first conversation between Adam and Eve was Adam noticing her beauty. Your body was made to be celebrated, both visually and physically, in the right time and context of course, but that moment in history affirms your desires to be seen and desired. God created us for that. Trying to navigate our way through society’s mixed messages and the church’s extreme messages can be messy to say the least, but my favorite part of your challenge is to “Point to God, not rules”. And that’s where we allow for God to speak to our teen girls and the women in our lives and us. Btw, your Vlogging daughter: She Rocks!! -raj
Thanks, Raj! And, yes, Katie does Rock. 🙂
I can understand how many ultra modest demands could have evil effects. However, after reading the book Dressing with Dignity at the age of 18, I started dressing in only skirts etc, and my body image actually improved dramatically! I believe it was because I felt more like a lady. In this book, Colleen Hammond, a former model, emphasizes modesty and feminine beauty without frumpiness!
That’s wonderful, Julia. I have no problem at all with people choosing to wear only skirts–as long as they’re not doing it to keep from men from sinning or trying to make it the standard for everyone. I tend to feel more feminine, especially in the summer, when I wear skirts, too! I must admit I shy away from them in the winter. I simply get too cold!
I feel very strongly about this: Christians body shame women and dehumanize men with their modesty teachings.
If you read the Word as setting forth gender-specific dress codes, and keeping those codes as an important part of your faith because they’re in the Word, fine.
If you have a dress code based on the idea that women need to cover up because men cannot control themselves then you send the message that women are first and foremost sexual objects and men are less than human because they are powerless in the face of their lust. That supports rape culture. I think that line of teaching can also cause men to sexually objectify their wives and then for married women to feel pressure to (in private) be able to live up to the worldly standards for what is traditionally sexy and considered beautiful.
Two things my parents did very right in this regard still stick with me to this day: first, a compliment about my looks “what a pretty daughter/what lovely hair, etc” was always met with a response unrelated to how I look – they’d mention my grades, athletic aptitude, volunteer projects, etc and sent the message that looks don’t matter. Second, if I wasn’t allowed to wear something they gave a very specific response as to why – nothing was ever just immodest. It either pulled across my chest, rode up when I sat down, didn’t have straps, etc. The dress code was never vague so I knew what was acceptable and not in my house and then as I got older was able to decide for myself what is appropriate in any setting.
Sara, totally agree with this: “If you have a dress code based on the idea that women need to cover up because men cannot control themselves then you send the message that women are first and foremost sexual objects and men are less than human because they are powerless in the face of their lust. That supports rape culture.” Absolutely! You said it well.
Sounds like your parents did it right!
Oh Sheila, how we fuss and fret over this issue! As a Christian mom, who admittedly did NOT grow up with a healthy self- or body-image, it’s hard to build up my daughters (and sons) in a healthy way in this area… One thing I DO know is the dangers of legalism. I think deepening my own faith, and encouraging my kids to develop a relationship with the Lord helps us all want to serve and please Jesus. Then our eyes can stay on Him ~ where they belong ~ rather than on the world…
Just some thoughts in progress…
Yes! Let’s keep Jesus as the focus.
Love this! You make me want to write my own blog post about what I was taught and how it has affected me. Thank you for this article. Be blessed 🙂
I’d love to read it if you wrote it!
Well, I did it
http://purplebuoy.com/2014/10/10/shame-from-modesty/
An interesting blog post addressing men on this topic.
http://joffrethegiant.blogspot.com/2014/04/stop-blaming-immodest-women-for-your.html
Modesty totally is 80% attitude. My school had uniforms. Our skirts we no more than 4 fingers above the knee and our shirts were very loose, buttoned up so it’s like an inch below the clavicle and the sleeves completely covered the shoulders. No make-up, only one earring in each ear, a small stud of a small ring, very strict hair codes, no nail polish, short nails ect. You’d think all the girls would look modest with these parameters right? Nope. You could still totally tell who the “loose” girls were. They managed to look immodest without technically breaking the dress code at all.
That being said, I don’t think it’s possible to be modest in shorts that barely cover your bottom and a top that bares the entire stomach.
I think it’s like you said. Emphasize beauty and not sexiness. For a fabulous example of being modest and lovely google Fanny Rosie. She has the most amazing outfits. And she probably even meets those legalists’ modesty rules.
Great article, Alchemist! Thanks for linking to it. Did you see that satire that a really clever young woman did pleading with men to stop wearing suits because they looked so good in them? It was really funny.
I’ll check out Fanny Rosie!
P.S. I’m going to pin and share his article. It’s really good!
I agree, Sheila. I’m weary of Christian messages on modesty out there that mean well yet they’re damaging. As if a teenage girl or woman is responsible for a man’s sin, puleeze. I’m also tired of hearing that men are basically animals that can’t control themselves (and we can’t expect them to control themselves so we help do it for them by covering up) and that women are not as visual as men because I’m here to tell you that’s just NOT true. At least it’s not for me. I am and always have been highly visual where the opposite sex is concerned. It doesn’t mean that I’m lusting. I just notice. There’s nothing wrong with noticing beauty either. It’s what we do with those thoughts that matter and they’re up to US to control.
I read a Christian blog about a year ago (can’t recall the name) where a mom used her platform to talk to her son’s female friends on FB. She told them they had one shot only to post modest pictures of themselves. Otherwise, she’d delete them from her son’s pages. She also went into detail about what they should and shouldn’t show. Okay … thing is, on that very same blog entry, she posted pictures of her sons at the beach. They were wearing typical teen guy apparel yet they were showing the exact areas the mom told the girls not to show. It was pointed out by many readers, however, the mom failed to connect the dots. The irony is that the youngest child, a girl, wasn’t a teen yet and I have to wonder if she’ll include her daughter’s picture in a swimsuit on her blog when she becomes a teenager. Something tells me that she won’t and that’s because many view feminine modesty very differently and as more dangerous.
So we have the negative and damaging (imo) messages about modesty yet we also have some girls and women who don’t dress as modestly as they should. I’ve witnessed this in my church and have seen dresses and skirts so short that it takes a Herculean effort for the person (usually a teenage girl or young woman) to both sit down and stand up without showing um, foundational garments (where they have to hold on to the dress or skirt so it won’t ride up). So while I think a conversation should be initiated at some point (at home, in youth group, etc.), I think a better approach would be to appeal to who these women are in Christ. Who do they belong to? We should talk about their value more than who they could potentially “tempt.” It’s okay to acknowledge that both sexes can have lustful thoughts too. I honestly believe that a woman who truly values herself and views herself the way God views her will conduct herself with dignity and respect. Changing the way we talk to Christian teenage boys would be great as well.
As for me, I grew up in a very strict church where there was a dress code for women (dresses only, two inches below the knees, please). This church lightened up considerably as I got older. Modesty was still taught yet the details were left up to the individual and because I was able to make choices in my teens, I didn’t suffer any ill effects as an adult. With my girls, I’ve taught them to dress appropriately for the activity. I wouldn’t approve of micro minis, plunging necklines or short shorts, however, as you said, there’s a big difference between A and Z. Modesty also implies fitting in and not standing out in any way so if a skirt is so short or a blouse is so low cut that they draw attention, then that’s not modest in my book and my kids know that. We’ve had very few disagreements in this area now that I think about it.
Great comment, Elena! I completely agree: we treat men like they’re animals, and they’re not. That’s being disrespectful to women, but it’s also being disrespectful to men. Let’s treat EVERYONE with dignity, not as if there’s something inherently evil about them.
Wow, so sorry for the length of my post!
I wish there had been at least a bit of teaching around modesty as I was growing up – I had to figure it out for myself and that’s not easy as a teenage girl!
With my own daughter, we have basic guidelines for dressing modestly. And we talk about why. I tell her that no parts of our body are “wrong” or “dirty”, but that some parts are only for sharing once we are married. So we dress in a way that keeps those parts private until it’s time to share.
She seems to get that – she’s 11. I hope we can still talk as openly in 5 years time!
Adding that with my 14yo son, we talk about how he is responsible for his actions, and that we expect him to treat every woman with respect, regardless of what she is wearing.
It’s a balance – she needs to know she can “dress to impress” and enjoy looking lovely, and he needs to know that whatever a person is wearing he has to treat them as God’s beloved child. (And so does she – girls can be awful about what other girls are wearing!)
Great balance, Emily! So true.
Okay, since my last comment got deleted, I’ll just write this.
There is a book by Manis Friedman called, “Doesn’t Anyone Blush Anymore”.
The last few Chapters cover the most deep and enlightening thoughts about what modesty truly is that you’ll ever read anywhere
Modesty is about how we manage INTIMACY in every area of our lives – not just garments and such..
You know, I used to love to make my wife blush by complimenting her.
Hi Sheila – I’m completely with you on this. I agree that “modesty culture” (as it plays out in many parts of the Christian community) sends the message that there is something inherently wrong with women’s and girl’s bodies, and that women and girls are responsible for the thoughts and actions of men and boys. It also sends very negative messages about women’s sexuality. Although I think that many people are sincere and well meaning in their efforts to promote modesty, I also think that the “modesty culture” in some churches and groups is part of a broad effort to control women and keep them “in their place.” I mean, if there is something inherently “bad” about the body God gave you, how valuable or important can you be? I think the answer is – “Not very valuable or important.”
Before I saw this post today I had just updated and pinned a post on what it means to be beautiful, which I think touches on some of the points you made – http://calmhealthysexy.com/beauty-is-a-package/ My favorite thought from this post is that physical beauty alone does not take women where most of us want to go.
Thanks for taking on a difficult and touchy subject.
It’s unfortunate that:
1. People THINK it’s about bodies.
2. People SAY it’s about bodies.
It’s deeper than that. Sad.
I feel incredibly strongly on this issue and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I grew up homeschooled and both my mom and sister and I struggled with the modesty culture of the homeschool groups. My mom argued that they went too far and were sexualizing our young girls way too early, thus making them lose out on an innocent childhood. I remember being made fun of and greatly chastised by other homeschoolers because I wore a sundress when I was 8, one that had wide thick shoulders and came up to my neck, but was sleeveless. How dare I show my pasty white arms when it was 110 degrees outside!
It would drive us nutty to see all these girls in almost Amish apparel, riddled with fear of a man losing his way because they entered the room. And the boys, the boys could wear whatever they wanted! Isn’t the whole idea of honoring God in modesty is being respectful of yourself and others, for both men and women.
My mom and my sister and I have always adhered to the rule of being classy, not necessarily using the word modest, due to it’s many legalized definitions. Harkening back to old school lady like dressing principals. Taking care of yourself, and putting your best ladylike foot forward. My sister loves looking tailored and sharp with a retro edge. She also gravitates toward a Parisian style, much like Audrey Hepburn. She always looks polished, never, in my mind, immodest. If you look like a shlub it’s kind of hard to get people to talk to you, or hire you for a job. You can be modest, but in moderation. You know, classy. Now that’s not to say I don’t go out in jeans and a t-shirt, but at least having the classy lady like guidelines has helped me.
We, both men and women, were made in the image of God, shouldn’t we respect that, and not constantly shame the glorious beautiful creation that God made?
Madalyn, such a good point. Here’s another way to look at the debate: Paul says that we are to dress so we don’t draw overt attention to ourselves. But if you dress your kids like the Amish, you draw attention! The question is, how do are we able to be IN the world but not of it? If we look so strange to people that they think we’re freaky or throwbacks, our witness is compromised, too. It should be about respecting yourself as God’s child, and that means that we dress appropriately, with care, not that we cover up completely for the wrong reasons. I love the classy/immodest distinction!
Exactly! My mom was always talking about how to be a good witness. It’s hard to witness when you are a lone man on a hill, or dressing like Laura Ingalls. You have to live in this world and be a witness, a good example.
I won’t go into the whole men taking accountability for their actions, I think Nick M said it perfectly!
My sister follows you and posted a link to this, and I have to say after reading several of your articles, your views are so refreshing, and so like mine! I just so greatly admire you!
Awww, thanks, Madalyn! Good to have a new reader. 🙂
Yes, yes, yes! Classy! That is what I teach my daughters. I’ve come to almost detest the word Modesty. It is used to demean and control women way too often. I was raised in a skirt only world, so I’ve experienced this firsthand. I don’t want my daughters obsessing about whether or not they are *modest*, or what a man might be looking at. Just dress classy. Then the issues take care of themselves.
This essay is very much needed today. This is no trivial matter. Much harm has been done to wives, husbands, and to their marriages over many centuries. Thankfully, today, we have Christian marriage bloggers! There is hope for the future.
It is sad that Christianity has had this problem (of lacking a healthy, mature and rational view of married sexual love) for most of its history. Books have been written on this and these point to the harmful influences of ancient pagan schools of thought (Gnostics, Stoics, Manicheans, etc.) on early Christianity. It seems the greatest intensity of an antipathy towards the married state (and specifically towards the sexual love of the spouses within marriage) occurred during Scholastic times (the 11th through the 13th centuries). Even after the Reformation, we are still paying a heavy price for this sexual pessimism.
We are paying indeed! But I do think the tide is turning–so many good things coming out right now. A freedom to talk about sex. Proper research on how divorce isn’t as rampant as we thought, and how marriage is a force for good. More and more people are talking about it–even in the secular world. I think the opportunities are enormous right now, and we need to take them. But that means having the ability to let go of some older ways of thinking about things, and remembering the most important: that it’s always a heart issue with God, not a rules issue.
Great message!
For anyone who had been scarred by wrong ideas about sex and modesty I highly recommend the conference, Love After Marriage. They are Christians who are working hard to transform our prudish ideas about sex and bring healing to people who have suffered from well meaning but misguided parental error.
http://www.loveaftermarriage.org
Thanks for that recommendation, Jenn!
Legalistic Modesty teaches Boys that someone else is responsible for enforcing our boundaries. We lack self control, if something stimulating is presented to us, we have no choice but to act on it. So it’s the girls’ responsibility to help us by removing all temptation.
Exactly. And it’s wrong.
Thank you for sharing this! I think redefining modesty is so important. I have heard so many mixed messages in various church settings, and it has been confusing for me to sort everything out and to form opinions of my own. I have wrestled with the modesty issue my whole life because I have big hips and a big bum, paired with a small waist and long legs. I have been told that my pants are too tight and that I am accentuating my curves too much – but that was absolutely not my intention when I got dressed that morning. People don’t realize how difficult it is for me to buy pants or skirts! Finding the right style to fit me and still be “modest” (by some standards) can be a legitimate challenge for myself along with other women of all sorts of shapes and sizes.
The other thing some people don’t consider, is that men are attracted to different things. What is tempting to one guy may not be tempting to another. My husband likes my curves, but maybe some guy would think that my hips are disproportionate and therefore unattractive, regardless of how I dress. How can we possibly expect ourselves and other ladies to dress in a way that prevents every male we encounter from looking at us?
So true! And how wonderful that your husband loves your curves. 🙂 But more proof that we can’t be responsible for what others think.
Can I have your curves? 🙂 It’s so hard to have a healthy balance between dressing well (feeling good and beautiful) and showing off. It sounds like you are achieving the right balance, and sometimes physical features just speak loudly regardless of what we do about them! Tall people can’t make themselves not stand out in a crowd, and neither can you. When I see curvy women (because I’m not curvy) I admire them and think “Wow, so beautiful!” I’m hoping men are doing the same for you. Don’t worry about being automatically provocative unless you are dressing like Beyonce 🙂
Thank you for this series! My husband and I grew up in the thick of modesty culture. We struggled at first in marriage due to the shame we both felt over this topic. Great healing took place and we have enjoyed 7years of intimacy.
Now that we have a son and two daughters (4and under) we want to raise them differently than we were, but were afraid of the “pendulum swing”. This series gives us some great starting points on how to intentionally teach modesty equally and without shame. Thank you!
I loved a lot of what you presented. The only caveat I would like to bring up is the responsibility of leaders of youth programs and owners of swimming pools. Now the pool rules at our house was everyone was covered with a t-shirt no exceptions in mixed groups. However, in a group environment I know from experience that you say a lot of things to people that go in one ear and out the other. Whenever I had to talk about Christian modesty we covered it very closely to the ideas you expressed above and I can tell you that lots of it got lost in the translation. I wish I had had the recording powers of an iphone 15 years ago so that I would have evidence of what I actually said whenever I was leading a group talk. The telephone game is alive and well in the teen group. Anyway, sometimes, you had to distill things down in flyers and I would suppose emails today, that don’t always translate to the teaching you have tried to do on any topic and modesty was always a hot topic. The older I get, the more I realize we all hear a lot more of what we want to hear than might actually have been said. I guess what I am trying to say is I am glad for the conversation and am thrilled for the heart that seeks Biblical wisdom on all topics including dress. And for anyone who brings the message that we are all beautiful in the way God made us. No matter what is said, no one but Jesus is responsible for another person’s salvation. But I would also give grace to leaders of teen groups (or parents groups who grab teaching with two hands and charge ahead) who are standing between a rock and a hard place. Vilified for looseness or stoned for legalism. Just like accident witnesses, ask 5 people who walk out of a talk on modesty, before they talk with their friends and/or spouses, and I bet you get at least 4 different interpretations of what the leader said.
THANK YOU for posting this!!! It is sorely needed. Sara got it absolutely right above. Men are not mindless zombies who have to satisfy themselves no matter what the cost (to women or themselves). I grew up in a very shaming Christian culture and knew many guys who probably WOULDN’T have been so attracted to porn and wouldn’t have lusted had they not been told that was “normal.” If we tell men what they are supposed to be attracted to, and how often, and to what extent, they will feel pressured to do so and/or when they DO give in to their desires without any kind of discipline, they will say “I’m just a man.” Not to mention, depicting women as helpless flowers and men as virile, frantic bees denies women the ability to explore their own sexuality in a healthy, equal way. I know a lot of women with strong sex drives, but they talk about it in secret with their girlfriends. They get disappointed when their partners, who are “supposed” to be insatiable, actually want sex less than they expected. Are they abnormal? Are their partners OK?
And on the modesty issue: sometimes curiosity is curiosity, not lust. This is an important distinction, especially when working with teenagers. I tend to wear v-neck shirts but am very flat-chested, and when I bend down, sometimes the shirt will gape open (so jealous of you ladies who can fill out a T-shirt!) This happened once when I was doing the Amazing Race with my church youth group (I was the youth group director). I saw a boy and girl both look, and I quickly stood up and readjusted my shirt. Do I think either person was thinking of me sexually? Probably not. Most kids can’t remember their mother’s breasts, and breasts are quite interesting things. They looked because my shirt gaped open. Little moments like this happen, and while we should strive for modesty, I think modesty Biblically speaking is less about showing specific body parts, and more about letting your spirit shine through so that your appearance is not the main thing that speaks for you. We don’t need to worry so much about what we wear and how attractive we look once we understand that God looks on the heart.
Hi Sheila,
Thank you to you and your daughter for this important post! I am sort of a modest dresser myself (no cleavage, skirts at least to the knee), but it is very important at the same time not to hold women and girls responsible for mens’ sexual feelings.
When I was 18, the uncle of a friend came onto me. I felt so shameful after this. I constantly had to wash myself, went to confession, prayed to God to forgive me for having led this man to lust after me. Really, I hadn’t done anything wrong. It was HIS problem and mistake, not mine. Still, I haven’t told anyone, this is the first time that I am mentioning it to someone.
Thank you for shifting the blame away from women! This is such an important message that all girls should know growing up.
Today, I don’t like to use the term “modest”, I use the term “appropriate”. I want to be dressed appropriately for the occasion so that I feel comfortable. I would never feel comfortable in low cut tops, so I don’t wear them. I am modest for myself really, and not for other people.
Tell you daughter that in our youth group both guys and girls had to wear shirts. 😉
This discussion reminds me of an anecdote I read once. It seems a young college woman had converted to Islam and decided to start wearing full hijab on campus — hijab covers everything, from your ankles to your wrists, and adds an ample head scarf on top of that. She stopped wearing hijab once she received an inappropriate note from a fellow student who explained in detail how much her fully-covered, loosely-clothed figure turned him on.
As I was growing up, I wore a head covering since age eight and always wore long, loose dresses or baggy shirts and skirts. Eventually I stopped wearing men’s shirts. I’m a curvy woman and I can’t always hope to disguise the fact by looking like a bag. The story above made the point for me that I can’t hold myself completely responsible for what men think when they look at me.
(Of course I agree that we should try to be modest and classy!)
Too funny, Erin! Yes, I think people will notice curves, and that’s really okay.
Oh my goodness! I just love your daughter! Thank you for posting this and speaking about a very important issue!
You’re so welcome! I’ll give Katie your compliments.
I totally agree with you and your daughter! I am 18 years old and have always struggled with how I should dress, especially at church. I don’t go to a, say, ‘legalistic’
Church, but there is an underlying expectation for dress. And when you don’t dress in a way that is ‘appropriate’ you see that you are criticized. But for me, I love to be fashionable. And not in an immodest way either. I love heels and I love to dress in style, but I make sure that I am classy and not dressed in a way that shows ‘all that I’ve got’. But sometimes I feel like the things that I wear are criticized because of those unspoken rules. And I just love how you both spoke out about this mixed message of modesty. Thank you.
Sheila, huge fan right here! Love your blog—I found it about six months before I got married, and it’s been a huge help ever since! Love this post too! My thoughts:
Women can’t be responsible for the thought lives of others. That CAN’T be our job. I refuse to be held captive by the nebulous “might”. A man “might” lust after you if he sees the outline of your calf through your skirt, but also the world “might” catch on fire tomorrow. “Might”, “could”, and “what if” is beyond the scope of any human wardrobe, much less that of a teenage girl who’s been made constantly conscious of her body because a legalistic church decided to lay the responsibility for others’ relationships with God on her clothing choices. I wish “modesty” hadn’t been long, loose, ugly t-shirts and skirts, and I wish that “modesty” hadn’t been a code word in this church for the real issue, which was control.
Also, the whole “wear loose, long clothing so men don’t lust” thing makes me laugh. I’m in the US military, and let me tell you, as baggy and camouflage as the uniform is, there are STILL men who speculate on bra size, underwear choices, etc. I dress modestly in civilian clothing as well, but still in an attractive manner. My husband has no problem with how I present myself, and he’d tell me if there was an issue. So, while I believe modesty is important, basically I wish Sheila had been in charge of our youth group growing up and taught modesty this way!
Sheila, DOES IT GET ANY CUTER THAN THAT? Your daughters are adorable. I love it that you use their voices on your blog. I love this series. I’ve spent my whole life ashamed of my body – covering it up so the curves wouldn’t show. I still struggle with this! I think this whole issue is tricky, sticky. You are handling it beautifully and giving all of us a lot to think (and talk!) about. Rock on.
Thanks so much, Natalie!
Love this so so so much. So needed.
(On an ENTIRELY irrelevant note, I cannot help but analyze peoples mouths when they’re speaking, and it kind of looks like your daughter may have a posterior tongue tie like one of my kids. If she has recurring issues with orthodontic work not sticking, etc, check out the Tongue Tied Babies Support Group on Facebook and get her to one of the specialists they recommend. It can be a simple fix to release a tongue tie and so worth it! It is also suspected to be linked to TMJ, reflux, digestive issues, migraines…our issues were breastfeeding related, since she was a little baby, but there CAN sometimes be other long term issues. Totally disregard if not helpful, it’s just not a well known thing yet and I wish I’d known about it earlier for my kids.) 🙂
This is definitely an important message that needs to be heard. I went to private Christian schools for my entire life (and many of their dress expectations on “non-uniform” days were completely unrealistic). Kids and teens want to dress “fashionable”, but what is considered fashionable (or even available) doesn’t always fit into the overly modest standards. And God forbid the child is built like I am wear it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to find clothing that fits but isn’t too tight in one or two areas.
I also would like to point out that some one piece swimsuits are more revealing than some two pieces.
Someone else had mentioned a blog post from another site that had pictures of the woman’s sons at the beach. I had read that post and many of the comments both for and against that woman’s opinion, and the one that struck me the hardest was the woman that said that women don’t get turned on by men’s bodies. My only thought to that was how sorry I felt that that woman didn’t feel attracted to her husband’s body. It’s a shame really.
On another note, I am friends with a lot of non-Christians who have expressed similar concerns about modesty and school dress codes. Many of their concerns have been about girls who have been sent home for things that aren’t revealing or inappropriate in any way but have been cited to “cause boys to be distracted by lust.” The issue with that is that the schools are saying that the boys’ education is more important than the girls’, which is a horrible message for a school (or anyone) to imply. My question to go with that is, “If men can’t control their lust, how can we expect them to control countries, churches, corporations, families, etc?”
This! I often jokingly suggest that we do to men who cannot control themselves what we do with dogs: collars, leadhes, and… well, surgical altering, let’s say. I mean, seriously, people, of you want me to control that for you, that’s how I am going to do it. lol
We are just starting with this, as my son as 10. He us very modest, and expects the other kids around him to be too. His judgement of girls in skimpy clothes is “They must not have s daddy that loves them…Good Dad’s font let their girls dress that way.” And he’s still a little young to be fascinated by women’s body. The modesty culture at our old church really stressed “girls should dress this way to avoid tempting boys”. And this makes it hard for me to stress to him that he is responsible for his own actions, regardless off how a girl dresses. It’s murky water to try to stear kids through.
Also, we are teaching boys that lusting is acceptable. There is enough of this from their hormones without teaching them that this is expected out of a “red-blooded (American) male”. We can hold our young men to a higher standard: I know many families do.
Great point, Betsy!
Actually this message really affected me! As I was growing up in youth group- I grew deeply bitter about the issue of modesty. I had so many more issues going on though. The biggest being- feelings and desires of transgenderism. So I already disliked my body, but having the focus solely on the girl in the issue of modesty and dress made life so much more unbearable. In short, having the guilt from being a “stumbling block” helped me mentally justify my desires to become what God did not intend for me. Youth group workers and pastors never know who is struggling with what- but conveying modesty as a one-sided issue can makes someone’s struggle even more difficult. So, I hope this view on modesty spreads because young people don’t need to feel shame for what God gave them.
Thank you, Skye. That’s a great perspective.
Ha, wow – love this!! I grew up in a strange spot in-between two or three modesty cultures. My Christian parents were pretty chill – the only things I can ever recall them requesting me to change is if something was very low-cut or short, (and I mean actually very low or short, even by real-world standards), or cautioning me that sometimes things were a little tight on me. I was a teen, so I was annoyed, but I see their point now I’m older, especially since they knew that I was only trying to be “fashionable” – sex and sexy were nowhere on my juvenile mind until the age of about…20. In fact, my family was so far from the “shame and stumbling block” culture that I distinctly recall my mother wearing a bikini occasionally, though to the lake when we were older, not when she took us as young kids to the community pool. My parents were pretty good, to my mind, about quietly enforcing appropriateness to the situation and respect for self and God.
Then, there were church and school. School was private and Christian, and oh, those pool parties! No girls’ two-pieces allowed, but guys can wear whatever. I was furious one year in middle school about the double-standard applied even to girls. I owned a two-piece “tankini” – children’s clothing from Lands End. It had a high scoop neck and modest bottom and its pieces overlapped in the middle. I was distinctly not allowed to wear this, while a much more…mature…girl got away with a suit cut down to her sternum because it was a “one piece.” THAT was strange legalism, let me tell ya. It was totally unfair to shame a child for her two-piece and let the effective woman alone for her sexy one-piece.
Then, church. Oh, boy. Church had lots of homeschoolers. Let me here state that I have nothing against homeschoolers, and that I in fact deeply admire their system of education, but wow! Do I find that homeschoolers are the worst on the “modesty” and legalism scale. I was told by adults and children that my skirts were too short (the ones my parents had approved), that my shorts were too tight (it was the 2000’s, so all shirts were tight, and I was also a size 0, so they weren’t very tight!)- oh so many criticisms! Here even more than at school we heard the “stumbling-block” litany. Here, I first became ashamed of my late-blooming body.
College, however, was worse. Another small private school. This time, kids from fellowship group (I’ll leave it unnamed) told me I dressed like a slut because I wore leggings and shorter dresses (I’m short! Maxis don’t exactly fit, here), told me I looked like a princess and a *itch because I wore high heels and dresses all the time (I prefer them). When we went out at night, they made me ashamed of anything form-fitting for the curves that had finally arrived at about age 17 – and by anything form-fitting, I sometimes mean a turtleneck sweater and jeans. I never felt more judged for my self-presentation than by these Christian young adults. And the odd thing was that when I asked my parents, years later, about my outfits, breaking out the same clothes for them to see, even my dad had NO PROBLEM with anything I wore. What my parents sidnt teach me, Christian culture and other kids did: be ashamed of your body. Be afraid to wear fashionable clothes. Be worried about how every man looks at you. Be worried that you are giving others the wrong impression, even inadvertently.
Shaking this fear as an adult has become very hard.
I grew up the opposite. I did not grow up in a Christian home and I went to public school. I was allowed to wear what ever I wanted and often my mom bought me bikinis. However, I try to teach my girls modesty. Not in the strict manner you have described and not to prevent a man from lusting. I want all of their girl parts covered. I also don’t want them to wear “booty” shorts, belly shirts or bikinis. But again, not because I want them to be ashamed and cover up to keep a male from sinning. I just feel private parts should not hang out and I see no point in a shirt that only comes below your bra.
I’d agree, Ashley. I certainly have standards that I’ve tried to get my girls to adhere to as well. It’s the reason behind it that’s important, I think.
In general, I think this article is on the money, but I do have a little bit of an uncomfortableness with it. I couldn’t put my finger on it at first, since I have often ranted against the way modesty is portrayed to us ladies. This is what I came up with:
I think this article would have done well to touch on one point more specifically and in detail: while teachings on modesty need to be redefined…it doesn’t necessarily mean modesty will always be fun or comfortable for us (and please hear me when I say I know you didn’t make this claim). We are sinful people living in a sinful world, trying to live as Christ-followers. Submitting to His calling, over our culture’s, will and often should make us uncomfortable. There might be more wrong with out culture’s definition of what is beautiful than our perspective on modesty. Just some thoughts….
(Please note, this is from a tankini and tank-top wearing woman.)
(Note #2: I think I spent ten minutes struggling to click the “post” button.)
Thanks for those thoughts, RCF! And sorry for the time lag–my blog’s having HUGE visitors today because of a post I did on Stocking Stuffers, and it’s really overloading it.
I agree with RCF. God often calls us to do hard things.
Also, there was a lack of mention of love. If men loved their sisters in Christ to re-focus their eyes and not lust, why can’t we love our brothers in Christ to dress modestly for them?
Yes, there needs to be a balance, but I dress modestly because I love others and want to not be a stumbling block.
Also, we talk so much about how men are not supposed to lust, and control themselves, and the like. But the hormones start at the tender age of 12, when boys are mere children, and when the hormones and fleshly desires just cripple them. Many are scared and shocked and taken aback, and have had no time to learn self-control. I hear it hits them like a hammer.
Can’t we give them an extra measure of grace while they struggle? God wants us to not cause the children around us to stumble. And, if you think those 12 year olds are only struggling with lust for other 12 year old girls, then you don’t understand the male mind.
Just the other day at the park, a group of t10-12 year old boys watched a 19 year old girl run. She was slightly heavyset and not particularly attractive, but all eyes were on her, and one boy quipped, “She looks so cute running!”
Anyway, just food for thought.
I agree. God calls us to live modestly in all areas of life which means it is a pruning process. Sometimes God shows us things about our hearts that might be hard to accept at times because we are sinful human beings and letting God prune and refine us can be an uncomfortable process . Also,while I think legalism and strict rules should be avoided when it comes to clothes I would add that if a woman is wearing extremely unmodest clothing she is basically objectifying herself by saying “look at my perfect body!” That is is just a plea for attention and goes past living in Christian freedom.
I wish this is what had been taught to me. Not hemlines. Not inches. Not that breasts and butts and legs were supposed to be hidden because they were “sinful.”
I wasn’t really hurt by it myself, but I ended up hurting a friend by telling her what I’d been told. I wish this was how it was presented to me, so I could’ve presented it this way to my friend instead.
Yes, I understand. I’ve said things to people that in retrospect were too harsh that I wish I could take back.
I think learning how to be modest in a balanced way definitely has to start with prayer and reading God’s Word. As parents, the most important thing we can do for our children is give them to God and teach them to be responsible and mature individuals. Your daughter is AMAZING! We are expecting our first baby in January and it’s a boy. He will be taught to be respectful of girls/women because that is what God expects but, if we are blessed enough to have another child after Mason, I hope we have a girl and that she can be as wonderful a young lady as yours!
Aw, thank you, Beth!
I like that you’re trying to help girls feel comfortable with their own bodies, and that beauty is an important aspect of femininity. But there’s a flaw with this statement: “Girls, no string bikinis, guys, no speedos. When out of the water, T-shirts should be worn by all at all times.” The flaw is, that the places where guys and girls stumble are generally DIFFERENT. While gazing upon a womanly form is tempting for males, honestly, I doubt it has the same affect on females. On the other hand, if a guy kept asking a girl is she wanted to hang out (spend time together) in a one on one way it may lead her on to think he’s interested when to a guy, it’s just hanging out with a “buddy”. So I think you probably need to rethink how to help girls be comfortable with their own bodies, while applying modesty because while there is responsibility on the male’s part wearing an innocent vneck may not be so innocent if you wear it extra-small rather than medium if you have a medium build. I think we need to have more insight into the differences between males and females and what tempts them, otherwise, this is actually working against what you’re trying to accomplish, which is protection for both girls and guys. God gave the man and woman different “curses” at the fall… we need to think deeper into the issue than “waaa… you’re so legalistic to make a girl dress like laura ingalls… so if girls have to, then guys should too.” I say… try again.
Strangely, it is the exact teaching you are espousing here that many of us suffered from. As a woman who is very “visually tempted,” and knowing several friends who secretly admit to the same thing, it’s ridiculous of us to teach this. Most men might be visually whatever, but there are a whole lot of women “wired” that way, too.
Physical attraction is one thing, and being sexually stimulated is another. Generally, women need more than simple visual temptation to become sexually aroused. Please, if that were the case then Victoria’s Secret would have a men’s section or comparable store. For men, physical attraction has a greater (much greater) physical response. They don’t need the wining and dining. Think again. Perhaps you are a part of the edges of the bell curve… I suppose there is room for that. But it is not the norm.
Thank you so much for this well written, thoughtful article. This issue is a real one facing the church today, and somehow the “Christian” terminology and reasoning have strayed far from that found in the Bible. I look forward to reading the other articles in the series.
Most girls I know are sexually stimulated by men’s bodies…they are just better trained to repress those feelings. And the whole “men are stimulated visually, women are stimulated emotionally” is not only a gross generalization, it puts down the men who want more than a body.
Pick up any Men’s Magazine and what will you find? Yes, GQ and Sports Illustrated are just filled with those relationship articles about the emotionally stimulated man who wants more than a body. I’m sure you’ll find an article or two…in the last decade. It is not a gross generalization, it’s a realistic one. My point is that the difference does exist; God created man and woman and wired them differently and to truly embrace how one looks at one’s body and sexuality, one must be realistic and practical. Women don’t have to look like Laura Ingalls to be modest, but we can understand that designers highlight breasts, waists and behinds and they do it for a reason. I’m just concerned that in trying to solve the issue of women being ashamed of their bodies, that something important is lost. If you don’t recognize that perfectly normal, good men can easily be stimulated by a woman’s form, then you’re not reading the Proverbs and left to foolishness. And that would be a pity.
I never said they werent. I’m saying if m9th women were honest with their self, they would admit they are too. Thst a good lookin man in tight jeans and no shirt can be just as much as a temptation for a woman. At least gor me and the women I know. We talked about this in Sunday school class this week, in our women’s group. And, at least in my relationship, my husband isn’t the one who’s struggled with cheating/temptation/erotica/porm. I have. And so had better than half if the women in my group. Snd IN general felt more shame because of it
Erotica… Stories that engage the mind and emotions in the context of relationships (which by the way is the kind of porn women tend to watch too). Most men don’t need all that. As we look at how to reframe modesty, my hope is that women have a better understanding of men and out of biblical kindness and instruction, think twice about trying to make our issues equal in application. We are equal in value to God, but different. There is a reason women are addressed to cover up, and not men. I think if we stick with what the Bible instructs, we will not only protect ourselves but our brothers in The Lord.
I really do understand what you’re saying, and I do agree that men and women are different, but I do want to clear up one misconception. Women aren’t told to “cover up” while men aren’t in the Bible. Women are told to dress modestly, but in context what that means is not “don’t show cleavage” but instead dress in such a way that you don’t draw attention to yourself in a bad way. It’s the jewelry and hair that is talked about, not what body parts are shown, because that wasn’t an issue. In fact, what was most talked about with women and appearance in the Bible was their hair, over and over.
However, men are also told to cover up, and Noah’s sons were punished for seeing his nakedness. So I just think we need to be careful about what we say the Bible says. In Islam women must cover up, but Christianity isn’t legalistic like this. I think if we all just ask, “how does God want me to portray myself?”, we’d all come up with a pretty good wardrobe. He wants us all–men and women–respecting ourselves and each other, and that does involve covering up some parts. But that’s because we’re temples of the Holy Spirit, not because biblically there is a rule that women must cover themselves while men don’t need to. I hope that makes sense!
And I feel by putting most of the emphasis on women’s modesty, we are allowing women to be tempted too, and often unaware of why, because we are taught that men can’t control themselves whenough they see skimpy dressed women while never talking about the fact that it causes temptation for us too. It maked women too responsible for what men think, and makes them have guilt, shame, and feeling like they aren’t good enough or not normal when they have sexually reactions to men
Firstly, thank you Sheila for pointing out the difference between covering up and modesty. I agree with you. I meant modesty, but used the word covering from the concept of a woman’s hair and head are to be covered and a man’s head uncovered in 1 cor 11. But that speaks of order and authority. Modesty is the accurate term, and by the way, women (not men) are instructed to dress modestly. With regard to Noah being covered up… Of course nakedness is shameful just as it was in the garden. Modesty in adornment on the other hand is addressed to women, don’t you find that interesting? By bathing on a rooftop, a woman tempted a King, even unknowingly, to fall. And to your point Monica, did that put the weight on Bathsheba (a woman’s) shoulders? No, King David had His part and God dealt with it severely. Each gender is held accountable for giving into sexual temptation, but if Bathsheba would’ve exercised some modesty, that would have protected the King. Yes, we do have the burden to not look only to our own interests but the best interests of others. Bathing on a rooftop in broad daylight, foolishness. Both men and women, if we have true care for one another should consider the weaknesses and bents of the other. Men are called to consider the needs of the woman, the weaker vessel. That in itself should illustrate there are differences that need to be considered. If a woman feels guilty because of this burden, it’s because she should. And men ought to feel guilty for not exercising self control. If we both do our parts, then we show true understanding and love for each other. I shared this discussion with my husband, and he said “these women do not understand men.” I’m sad that we so want to usurp all that is male, to the loss of actually helping them… At the beginning, something women were called to do. That’s it for me. Peace.
To me, modesty is a measure of self control, and should be exercised by everyone, male and female, in dress, behavior, and heart, gor the same reason…because of respect for ourselves and our relationship with God, and to avoid being a temptation to others. I feel it is just as important to teach my son to dress modestly as it is for my sister to teach her daughter. Just like any other moral issue, I feel we are called to comparable standards. If girls shouldn’t wear short or form fitting shorts, my son shouldn’t wear “skinny jeans”. I feel it’s just as important to teach him muscle shirts are just for the gym as it is to teach girl tank tops aren’t appropriate at school. He’s a competitive swimmer, and by necessity competition and practice suits are form fitting…but out of the water the kids are taught to pull in shirts and pants as soon as they are out of the water. I’m not against stressing modesty for girls–it’s important! But is equally important to teach the standards to boys. Especially in a day and age where girls are often as predatory as boys, and at much younger ages
Modesty is not just for woman, Men are to be modest in their apparel as well. The problem is that folks want to take it to the extreme and place all of the burden on woman but men are to cover themselves as well. to not wear tight or too loose clothing or clothing that draws attention to their chest and male organs. Please, it not just about woman and their curves. also I believe this is an issue about obedience and pride. Pride makes a woman want to show off her attributes, color her hair, paint her nails and wear tons of makeup, look pretty for herself and so others can say she looks pretty. (or fit in with the rest of the world) never ever considering that that is Satan’s desire for women, to leave the messages of God to be pure and holy, and join him and being free and beautiful, was he not the most beautiful of angels, was he not admire for his singing and musical abilities, those are his strongest influences on human beings, and they are swallowing it up, never considering that he’s plan is to completely destroy any possible relationship between man and God.
Sheila,
I just reread this and watched your daughter’s video. Please tell her she did an incredible job articulating a very, very difficult topic. I will be using her video with my teens to get the conversation started!
Thanks, Shannon!
Hey Sheila! Good post, a good thing to remember. I loved your daughters video! I’m recommending her to some of my younger girlfriends and sisters.
I grew up in a good situation, as I look back on it. My dad had an interesting background and oftentimes struggled to figure out exactly how to relate to his houseful of women. But he’d also seen the “legalistic” side of modesty, and saw how fake and judgmental “modestly” can get. He also said he had the most beautiful daughters in the world, and we should be allowed to show that we were attractive. That stuck with me. Knowing that a man said I was attractive (even if it was my dad, ha ha), helped me choose clothes that were both comfortable and attractive, without showing off everything I had. I developed my own style and I still like it. And I was never ashamed of my body. 🙂
Hey, thanks so much for this post. We live in a section of West Michigan where women are supposed to be covered up 24/7 and it’s risque to show ankles… okay maybe not that bad but in the Christian communities here we have gotten an overdose of Conservatism. That being said, I have had a burden on my heart to talk to my teens at the church here about what the Bible says about human sexuality as we are in a war with our culture, and as I came to modesty, I was all like, “uhhhhhhh…..” cuz I knew I didn’t want to just parrot the problems with this double standard you pointed out but also wanted to get at the core of the issue. so just a few weeks ago I gave the message on modesty and found that the biggest influence in our decision making is found in honoring others above ourselves and sometimes laying aside our freedoms to protect the weaker brothers. I did not advocate that we should adhere to these “religious standards” as the pharisees did, but to consider what are we portraying to our brothers and sisters who may be weaker. I told the guys the problem of flirting and playing around with girls emotions and hearts and I don’t think I ever heard that growing up. But I did struggle with the thought of modesty when it comes to girls swimwear as a Youth Pastor. We have a guideline that says a modest one-piece or a shirt to cover up… yeah. your video… a shirt… I think I would like to amend that but I would need to sit down and hash out more specifics if I were to get rid of the shirt portions to cover two-pieces… The problem with these standards is that we cannot be fair if Suzie Q and Missy K wear the same suit but one of them is popping out all over in it and make them change or wear a shirt. When it comes to a group dynamic how do we play fair while still trying not to be legalistic. and like any other relational problem in the body of Christ, it is not easy to figure it out. It’s easy to make hard and fast rules, or to be completely liberal, it’s harder to find the middle ground, “M”.
My message to the teens about how to treat your brothers and sisters was an approach I felt worthy as the word “modesty” in the bible always reflects an “orderly process of conduct” or to be “worthy of respect.” But we also have been going through Romans in our Sunday morning services and ran into the section about not lording your freedoms over the weaker brothers. In essence I told the girls be aware that some guys, NOT ALL, have a huge struggle with this area and think of them when you make clothing choices. I was very adimate that I not be the one who makes that decision for them but that they would think for themselves, “does this Honor GOD????” which you pointed out but also, “does this Honor my brothers”
Now the hardest part of this talk was how do I be fair with the guys, um… don’t work out???? but seriously as a guy, I have a hard time translating this into how it should look for guys knowing that women do struggle with visual lusts as well. Playing to what I do know I spoke of the fragile emotional state of most girls when guys lead them on with flirting, ect.
In all of this, life will be messy because of Sin, and as God’s family we need to work hard at maintaining and creating healthy relationships.
thanks for your post, a huge help!
Rob, I think that’s a GREAT way to frame it! It takes it back to Jesus’ heart for us, rather than legalistic standards, and I think that’s very healthy.
This is a good article. What the typical American Christian culture does not realize is that this message is incredibly damaging to young men as well. I was in my early twenties before I could look at a young woman without some sense of paranoia that I might end up stumbling. After all, I was trained all of my life that there was a fine dotted line between finding someone to be beautiful and turning her into a sex object in your mind. In fact, it was much better that I avoid the line altogether and, somehow, refrain from allowing myself to find a girl attractive until the wedding night – at which point I was expected to go from hiding in a cave to launching into space. I was taught, like most Christian boys, that we are not really in control of our sexuality or desires. Avoidance is the only option – something that is impossible in modern times. Of course, the female body, in certain contexts, was meant to be titillating. It was also meant to be simply beautiful. When I am entranced by a sunset or left speechless by the Rockies, I am not tempted to objectify them as something I want to conquer, own, or plunder. I simply appreciate the beauty of God’s handiwork. Can I not do the same with women? Can I not see them as beautiful, appreciate that, all without objectifying or lusting after them? Yes. Yes I can. I know because I do. Instead of doing some odd head dance in a mall to avoid seeing anything attractive, I can look the world full in the face, appreciate its diversity, nuances, and beauty, and rejoice in the same. Victoria’s Secret stores, once seen as a black hole of evil, no longer bother me. Of course, it is certainly helpful that everywhere I go doesn’t look like the beaches of Brazil. However, unlike what I was taught, I am in control of my sexuality. I decide what to do with what I see – to be saddened, to objectify, to sexualize, or to simply see as beauty. I can pass by or interact with someone I find attractive without turning them into a object of sexual desire. I am a man redeemed by Christ. Not a boy who can’t help what he thinks about what he sees. So, to the church, stop telling me that I’m a helpless sex fiend who’s better off with a blindfold. Teach me of beauty apart from sexuality. Teach me that my mind can be used to see women as imago Dei rather than objects of temptation. Teach me how to control what I do with my thoughts and what I see rather than sending me on a lifelong fool’s errand of avoiding all thoughts and keeping my eyes on my feet (or in space). Teach me strength and mastery rather than cowardice. Teach me these things and you might have less men who live with the idea that they are one-thought creatures, and less women who are shamed into hiding.
Your daughters video… Spot on. Loved it. I’m 30 and mom to three girls and a boy. I’ve had a struggle with what to teach my girls and why and how and at what age. Although I’m 30 the video spoke to me something I needed to hear. Thank tou!
I know I’m late to the party here, but I love this. And the video is spot on. I have tried to argue this, and as you say, people assume I am saying ‘z’, when I mean ‘m’. Another harm this legalized modesty teaching can do is break relationships between women. My sister in law was taught this way. Any cleavage is wrong. Well I am large breasted, and sometimes you can tell. She couldn’t handle it and found a need to confront me about the clothes I wore. In her opinion I had no respect for my brothers (in Christ or in law) and needed to be told. It pitted me against men (I felt awkward around the men used as arguments, unnecessarily), and broke our bond. Having read this article and more like it my stance is a little bolder now. I will dress with “strength and dignity” (proverbs 31 woman) and if the men or women around me still have a problem…that is then their problem. Not mine.
Thanks for addressing this. Amazing.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I cannot wait to show this to my teenage daughter who has struggled with this issue so much!
So glad!
The double standard, especially for teens at pool parties, has been a pet peeve of mine for years! You’ve nailed it. Girls notice guys too. If things need to be covered up, cover up for both, let both learn a lesson of respect for the other. But only covering up one doesn’t show respect, it does lead to that gender feeling shame.