Hope your weekend is starting well! I’m still lying in bed enjoying the quiet, and I thought I’d post some links to some really interesting articles I’ve found this week. Many times I “find” them because someone posts on my Facebook Page, saying, “have you read this?” I have the best readers!
Weekend Links
Today I’m going to give you three articles by some guy bloggers that I found really excellent this week:
“Abstinence is Unrealistic and Old-Fashioned. Really?” Matt Walsh is a twenty-something radio personality and blogger who likes to just tell it like it is. And in this article he rips to pieces a “health” teacher who told her class that it’s unrealistic to expect teenagers not to have sex, and ridiculed those who didn’t. Walsh is a Christian, but his approach to issues is more “common sense”, and I think it works.
Marriage Isn’t For You. Awesome article (by a guy again!) about the purpose of marriage. It’s not about making you happy; you marry so you can concentrate on someone else’s needs. Great take.
Four Things I Don’t Want to Hear About Your Wife. Here’s another male blogger ripping his guy friends, saying, “don’t say these things about your wife.” Warning: a bit of bad language, but the guy is a Christian, and I think he’s spot on. Come to think of it, I don’t want to hear these things about your husband, either.
Now a news story that I want to highlight. I know many of you appreciate Debi and Michael Pearl’s ministry (they wrote To Train Up a Child about how to use corporal punishment right and she wrote Created to Be His Help Meet), but I truly believe that these books are dangerous and are not proper doctrinally. A Washington couple was recently sentenced to very long prison terms for murdering their adopted daughter. They were trying to follow To Train Up a Child. (Here’s a blog post by a former Pearl follower about how dangerous this book is, commenting on this case). I know that the Pearls never recommend murdering your child, but they do say that you have to break his or her spirit, and when a child rebels, and refuses to be broken, many parents just keep going, thinking that to do otherwise is sin. In this case, when the mother found her daughter dead, the first thing she said to the 911 operator was “my daughter was being rebellious). It’s just scary. We need to open our eyes to the fact that these books can be very dangerous. They don’t give you a proper idea of when to stop–they say that if a child is rebellious, you need to step up the spanking. Anyway, I know I’m opening a can of worms, but please, think twice before recommending these books or following these books. There are so many other much better books out there about raising Christian kids, and given how many “To Train Up a Child” parents have ended up killing their kids, maybe it’s really time to re-evaluate that book and just say no.
A Winner for the Evgie Wall Decal Giveaway!
A few weeks ago I ran a giveaway for a gift certificate towards Evgie wall decals. So many of you entered–seriously, these are so cute!
$80 from Evgie.com
The winner was Lucas J., and he’s been contacted. Thanks for entering! I hope to offer these again. But in the meantime, check out these children’s wall decals. They’d be great for Christmas!
What’s Going Crazy on Pinterest
I have a feature every morning on my Facebook page–From-The-Older-Post-That-Was-Pinned-Last-Night-Files–where I highlight something I wrote a while ago, but is now being pinned again. So I thought I’d link a few posts that are making the rounds on Pinterest.
First, this one has been going crazy for weeks: Stocking Stuffers for Your Husband. Want some good ideas? There are a whole bunch here!
When Your Husband is NOT a Spiritual Leader. A newer post, but it seems like one that many women need to read.
Have We Forgotten How to Be a Mommy? These three things used to be normal for parents to do. Now they’re not. Check out what they are!
Something to Ponder
I was speaking last weekend at a retreat in Michigan, and one of the things I said was that “whatever you focus on expands. So focus on God!” Obviously we have to work through our issues, but sometimes the best way to get through something is to take our eyes off of ourselves and put them onto God. So think about that today!
Have a great weekend! And if you’ve seen any favourite links this week, leave them in the comments.
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 25 years and happily married for 20! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 8 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
Just read this one by Paul Byerly of Generous Husband blog. It’s titled “Understanding her sexual reality”, he takes husbands on “walk a mile in her shoes” journey. Good read http://www.the-generous-husband.com/2013/11/16/understanding-her-sexual-reality/
” how to use corporal punishment right ” is an oxymoron. I hope you realize Shelia that in current culture it is (rightly) unacceptable to lay hands on a child. Glad to see you are not in support of the Pearls.
I also enjoyed the article “marriage isn’t for you” and it’s idea that marriage isn’t about you, but I also don’t believe that the first priority is your partners happiness, or anyones happiness, it’s glorification of God. I love the “unselfish” sentiment of the first article, but here is an interesting response article adding an even bigger idea… http://triathletewithacollar.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/a-response-to-marriage-isnt-for-you/
Over the last week I have been pouring over your web site, I have been so blessed by your articles on sex and parenting! I even thought we may have been separated at birth, it was like you were reading my thoughts. I thought for sure no one else shared my thoughts on parenting, and when you spoke about the spiritual and emotional connection I was like Yes! I knew I wasn’t crazy and there had to be more! Where have you been all my life? 🙂
I’m not one to comment, I usally avoid it 🙂 Could I make a critique? I think it so so important as Chritians to be very careful, when criticizing other ministries. There are more things I don’t like about the Pearls teachings than I do, however they love their kids, they love God and passionately serve Him and do their grown children. I don’t think they say to break the childs spirit, rather the will. I could be wrong I haven’t read the book in along time? 🙂 The stories of children dying at the hands of their parents is heart wrenching and tragic. I think that has more to do with unbalanced parents rather than erroneous teaching. We as Christians should be weighing all things taught against the Word and prayerfully consider if that’s what Gods saying to us, and not through the baby out with the bath water so to Speak! Also just want add the web site promoting the article is Not a Christian web site, the author so much as admits she’s an atheist in the FAQ section. I read through some of the articles, the site seems to take on a bias agenda. Just my opinion, maybe food for thought?
Love your web site, keep up the good work!
Lorie, normally I would agree, but this is one that I feel just too strongly about. The Pearls advocate spanking BABIES (like 6 months of age) by swatting them on a hand with a ruler. There is absolutely no excuse for that. And then the excesses can get worse from there.
Given that their books have sold millions, and that so many Christians are following them, I think it’s absolutely incumbent to say, as loudly as possible, that this book can and does do great damage to kids. Can parents raise great kids and still follow the book? Absolutely. Some parents are wonderful and loving and would never do anything in excess. But if you follow the letter of the law in these books, you will not be raising kids based on grace. And I just think that some things are too important to avoid speaking up about, and this is one that really gets me.
Here, for instance, is a quotation about a four-month-old baby:
The problem is that many parents are in churches where they are taught that this is the only correct Christian method of child-rearing, and many women follow this even doubting it, and crying, and wishing there was another way. I just want to be sure that I tell those parents that there IS another way, and that using a switch on a 4-month-old baby (or spanking a teenager to “break her spirit”) is not Christian.
Hi Shiela, I looked in the book and there daughter was 5 months old. Do you realize how thin 1/8 of an inch is? It probably barely hurt. Try it on yourself…You can’t do any damage with a twig that is 1/8 of an inch. All of my children crawled at 6 months of age. We would slap there hand and say “no” if they wanted to touch something they shouldn’t touch, like an electrical outlet. Yes, they would cry but they learned very quickly what “no” meant and obeyed us. The Pearls NEVER teach any form of wife or child abuse. Their book has been in print for almost 20 years and have sold millions of copies and it is only recent that they have these accusations leveled against them. They teach that not a bruise even should be left on a child. The Bible is very clear about using a rod. Also, I have been using Created To Be His Help Meet for over 10 years and I have never heard of one woman saying she was physically abused due to that book. They have 5 wonderful grown children. We spent a week with them. They are God-fearing people. They live simply and all the money their books bring in is spent on evangelizing “the ends of the earth.” Many people would love to destroy their ministry because of this and it pains me to see you doing it… I love the Pearls. They have changed my marriage and my life as well as many others. Just because a few evil parents who beat their children had the Pearl’s book in their home, does not mean the Pearls advocate anything even close to that. We raised our children exactly as they teach and they all walk in Truth and are lights in this dark world. PLEASE, Sheila, reconsider your attacks on them. Thank you. Love, Lori
I am sorry, Lori, but I cannot. I have seen people very close to me follow this book and seriously hurt their children, who now rebel and will not even talk to their parents.
Let me share just a few more quotations:
Talking about a 3-year-old:
(It is the “totally broken” that bothers me especially).
Or this one:
(Again: Defeat him totally).
And if your child soils himself/herself?
(Shaming a child like this for failing at toilet training by taking him outside and stripping him naked is humiliating to the extreme).
Or there’s this one on the parents’ role in teaching about Christ:
What does this even mean? That unless a child is severely spanked he will go to hell? That appears to be what they are saying.
Absolutely none of this sounds like the Jesus I know. God does not “totally defeat” us. In the story of the Prodigal Son, he allowed the son to rebel. He disciplines, but He does not force. The Pearls teach that you force children to obey and you break their spirit. They also teach that children must be happy, which is so dangerous emotionally.
I do not know how people can read these quotations and say that this is a loving way to discipline or that this reflects Christ. And it is something that I feel so passionately about, especially after watching the book be so widely used in my homeschooling community, to the eventual detriment of the relationship between the children and the parents (and in any cases severely emotionally stunting the growth of the kids).
As for not hearing of any woman who has been abused based on Created To Be His Helpmeet, there are whole websites dedicated to women speaking out about what happened to them under the Pearls, and how they eventually got out.
I know that you revere them, and I do appreciate your community on this blog. But I can’t be quiet about this, because I really do feel that the Pearls are false teachers, and that they give extremely dangerous advice in their books, advice which is, especially in To Train Up a Child, abusive.
The definition of abuse is not just that you don’t leave a mark. Never allowing a child to have a will or his or her own, and controlling everything, is also abusive, and that is the atmosphere that the Pearls are trying to create with their children.
It could very well be that these books helped you, but that’s likely because you were already a very emotionally healthy individual who could apply these principles in ways that were not abusive (by moderating them). However, I hope you can see that many people, if they follow the letter of the law in these books, will end up doing severe harm.
And that’s just where I stand, and I really can’t step down on this one!
Can you give me the page numbers for all of these quotes so I can take them in context? I would really appreciate it!
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol. My son, if your heart is wise, my heart too will be glad. Proverbs 23:13-15
This is just one of the many verses in Proverbs about using the rod. God teaches using it so shouldn’t we?
Never mind responding to my last few questions, Sheila. I see that you don’t believe in spanking a child so we will probably never agree on this topic. That is okay with me but I am still very sad that you speak so harshly about the Pearls. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I do agree with 95% of what you write and love your ministry. We both love Jesus and when all is said and done, that is all that matters! Love, Lori
It grieves my heart to hear you following the toxic teachings of the Pearls. Christ is our model. He was gentle, kind and compassionate. I pray that people will be able to figure out what is OPINION and bad theology, and the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
Sheila, I read what you had to say and went back and read To Train up a child from front to back. I can not conclude that any person believer or not would read it and think that what they teach could result in that type of abuse or death! As Christians we can agree or not on weather to spank or not, you could write several articales on the benefits on why not to spank that does not bother me. I guess the point I was trying to get at is, perpetuating a false witness against a brother and sister in Christ is wrong. I’m not even advocating their ministry, just that they are being unfairly and unjustly accused of something they did not do! I think we as Christians should be a little more discerning, when hearing and reading rumours of people we don’t know, just because we don’t agree with them doesn’t make it true or right. 🙂 cheers!
I have a few statements from the book that I would love you to consider, Sheila ~
“Train up—not beat up. Train up—not discipline up.” “A child needs more than ‘obedience training’, but without first training him, discipline is insufficient” (page 4).
“Disciplinary actions can easily become excessive and oppressive if you set aside the tool of training and depend on discipline alone to do the training” (page 9).
“Parent, have you trained yourself not to discipline immediately but to wait until your irritation builds into anger? If so, then you have allowed anger to become your inducement to discipline” (page 25).
“Parent, if you are having problems with your children, you can be assured that you are not alone. Your children are also having problems with you. You are going to have to make adjustments in your own life if you are going to help them with their problems.” “… the responsibility for making a significant change is completely yours” (page 32).
“There are always some who act in the extreme. These individuals are capable of using what has been said about the legitimate use of the rod to justify ongoing brutality to their children” (page 50).
“The rod should never be a vent for parents’ anger. Where the supreme motivation is anything other than the child’s good, it is inevitable that such behavior by the parent will assuredly create problems” (page 51).
Lori, I absolutely know that they have these statements in the book, and similarly, these are on the website and these are what they say on CNN whenever they’re questioned about their methods. They do say this.
But they also say that you should totally defeat a child, that you should break his spirit, that you should spank babies with a switch, and that if a rebellious child continues in rebellion, you must train even harder (aka spank even more). It is like in Created To Be His Helpmeet, when Debi said that abuse is wrong, but she also gave an anecdote about a husband coming at a pregnant wife with a kitchen knife, and then she never called the police, labelled this dangerous, or told the wife she should get help. Instead, she told the wife to stop complaining to all of her friends about her husband and to stay.
So I know they give these statements, but the rest of what they say does not jibe with these statements, and it’s all too easy for someone to read the books and to take it in an abusive direction. The testimonies of parents who used to use TTUAC, and have stopped, and are now horrified at what they did to their children, are absolutely heartbreaking, and it is these parents who are often speaking up the loudest saying that trying to “totally defeat” your child is not loving, nor is it Christian.
And that’s where I stand, I guess. I do understand that you and your husband feel differently, and that you think that there is benefit in what they teach. However, I believe that there are many other books that also teach consistency in discipline, and that also teach about godly marriage, that do not have the abusive baggage that the Pearls have. So if we are going to direct people to books, there are so many other ones that do have the positive message about marriage and about raising godly children that we could direct them to. Obviously some people take the Pearls’ messages too far (although personally I think the excesses are logical given what they advocate). You can say that’s their fault and not the Pearls’ fault. But enough people are doing it that perhaps it’s time to ask if there is something in the Pearls’ books that could cause so many people to misconstrue their message like this. I believe that there is, and that’s why I would choose to recommend other books, and discourage people from reading theirs. I hope that makes sense!
When they say “break their spirit” or something similar, they are talking about their willful, rebellious, disobedient spirit. We did this with all of our children when they were young and it made child rearing a wonderful experience. Teaching a crawling baby what “no” means early with a switch that barely hurts may save their lives. The Pearls teach how to have children obey their parents, which the Bible commands, and as you can tell from society, few children are being taught this anymore. In Debi’s book, she never told the woman to stay. She gave her a choice and the woman decided she wanted to win her husband without a word. Thank you for having another conversation with me about this, Sheila. You probably know I disagree with the way you teach biblical submission but I would never speak ill against your ministry to others because of it. You are a sister in Christ who has a wonderful ministry to other women. The Pearls have a powerful ministry also to many, sharing the Gospel of our Lord.
Thanks for the posts. I like this Joffre the Giant a lot. I read marriage isn’t for you earlier and really enjoyed it.
@Kellie. Since when do we govern ourselves by what is acceptable in culture? Me and all my friends were spanked growing up. We all turned out just fine. In fact, when corporal punishment was banished from our schools back in my elementary school years (I’m from SA), the schools simply had our parents sign a waver and kept spanking us. Teachers even offered us a choice between corporal and other punishment. Nobody ever chose to miss recess/ have detention/ go to the principle/ do extra work. Everyone Always chose spanking.
There is nothing inherently wrong with corporal punishment. There is everything wrong with basing your entire child rearing philosophy on the opinion of one person disregarding your conscience, brain, inherent gifts and the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
Once and for all: Corporal punishment is NOT the same as child abuse. Verbally chastising a child is NOT even Remotely the same as verbal abuse.
But many Christians are under the impression that corporal punishment is the only way to raise Christian kids. I think this is one way our culture is going in the right direction. Spanking a baby?! With a switch?! That is child abuse pure and simple.
Look, I’m raising three healthy and happy kids who are learning to love the Lord. I have parenting books, I use time-outs and rewards. I just don’t hit or spank, and I don’t need to.
If you are interested in other ways to help your children without spanking here are just a few ideas:
http://www.rageagainsttheminivan.com/2013/11/using-token-economy-to-encourage-good.html and
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Logic-Updated-Expanded-Edition/dp/1576839540/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384973022&sr=8-1&keywords=parenting+with+love+and+logic
There is no doubt you mean well when you write about the Pearls and your desire to protect families from what you and others believe is non-biblical teaching concerning child discipline and submission. Unfortunately, the church as a way of attacking its own without us ever realizing it. I have done it before, so I am not one to judge in this area :).
When it comes to the Pearls you should spend some time reading there stuff in context. You may still disagree with 1-2% of what they teach… and I bet there is no one you agree with 100% on all that they teach.
In the example you give in “Train up a Child”:
Interestingly, the book goes on to say, “Spankings are supposed to work , but it seemed at her young age , her brain couldn’t maintain the association. So, out of desperation , I laid the switch at the bottom of the step. ”
Debbie is recounting her attempts to deal with a 5 month old AND saying that it did not work like she had hoped for. Then you say she advocates spanking a 5 month old, when she admits that it did not work as planed and putting it down at the bottom of the stairs ultimately got her daughter to stop crawling up the stairs.
Then immediately in context she goes to speak against excess discipline, which had the couple who killed their daughter had read would have prevented the atrocity.
To tell parents never to spank because it can lead to abuse in some families is like saying we should never drive because some may die speeding. The Pearl’s are very fair in how they present both sides of the issue of both spankings and submission.
You inaccurately place Debbie Pearl in the camp condoning wife abuse with her teaching on submission, but do not quote her when she says, to run to the authorities if your spouse is abusive and allow God to change him in prison if that is necessary.
All I beg of you is to actually read their books, especially “Created” with an open mind, and realize that you may never agree with 100% of what they are teaching, but they are in God’s camp and doing 10,000% more than you and I will ever do for God’s kingdom because of the No Greater Joy Ministries. They are good, solid, level headed Christians, your brother and sister in Christ and you are welcome to disagree with them publicly, but please if you are going to do so, be accurate in portraying what they teach. Your recounting what atheists and non-believers say about them is not what I think you really want to do.
I know from your blog that you truly love the Lord and are seeking Him with all you write and do. And even if we may disagree on certain issues, I do not fault you at all and I can learn from you, along with many others that have come to love your teaching.
Thanks! ken
I am sorry, Ken, but I do not believe there is EVER any justification for striking a baby, and that is what they advocate. If a child bites you while nursing? Pull his or her hair. If they roll off a blanket? Swat them until they stop, no matter how long it takes.
We’re talking about a BABY.
But it is the older children that is very dangerous, too. The Pearls say that if you spank a child, and they do not obey, you should spank harder. You must not allow the child to win. You must totally defeat them.
How is that Christian?
No, the Pearls do not do more good than other ministries. Children have died because their parents have disciplined them to death. I know people say that wasn’t the Pearls’ fault, but in testimony these parents have said that they truly believed that if they let their children win that battle, those kids would end up in hell. No, the Pearls do not say you should kill your kids. But they do say you should keep spanking until those kids give in. They never say what to do if the kids DON’T give in–and some kids don’t. And they do very clearly say that the actions of parents will determine the salvation of their kids. If you are lenient, they will not learn to revere God. So you must teach them and chastise them and discipline them and spank them until they are “totally defeated”.
That is so beyond scary to me I don’t know what else to say.
I completely believe in discipline, and I was a very firm parent when my children were young. But we did not spank. I do think you can spank appropriately, though research has shown that spanking after age 6 often backfires, especially if the child is a girl. Between ages 3-6 seems to be all right; after that, the kids don’t tend to do as well. I personally think there are much better ways of disciplining that to spank your child with a tree branch or a plumbing line.
And please, readers, if you are reading this, and you know of people who are following the Pearls, talk to them gently, and start asking them if they believe that God wants to “totally defeat” them. If that’s not how God treats us, why do we treat our kids that way?
I can see your concern, but please balance it out with the Pearl’s own teaching.
Can you not reconcile the idea of spanking a child until they submit to your will AND “never leave a bruise or mark” which is what the Pearl’s teach?
I very much agree with you about not spanking children after age 6 except in very rare if ever circumstances… and even if you did it then it would not be to administer pain, but more to administer control and justice. We, like you, used many creative alternatives to spankings after age 3-4, and generally our spankings were swats and not true spankings in any sense of what a reader might consider a true spanking.
We believe that the treason for this is precisely because our kids knew they would be spanked for insolent disobedience. We also believe that the idea that child must be “spanked” or disciplined until “broken” refers to a young 2-3 year old who is testing the limits of disobedience and needs to know that they cannot win against a parent’s patience and persistence.
Three of our four children we recall the exact instance they decided they would be boss and no longer obey. This is classic for most children between 2-3 year olds where they are testing if “no means “NO” or if it means “maybe?”
You claim you know so many parents who spanked there kids and they later rebelled, and I know some of those too, but it is often because some parents totally confuse their kids.
In one instant a behavior is really naughty and untolerated resulting in a spanking, then a week later the exact same behavior finds a parent in a good mood and she/he is laughing about the same exact mischief.
One day it is funny, next day it is not. One day the discipline is gentle, the next day it is harsh.
Spankings are simply a tool to train a child. used unwisely and inappropriately, without love they can be a bad tool and cause more damage than good. So do we throw them out as a tool because some parents cannot use spanking correctly? Maybe that is your solution, and that is fine, but we try to teach what worked fantastic for us.
There is a point where your child needs to learn that “no” means “no” so that you are not battling this subject over and over again with the testing of wills through the teenage years. If parents feel they can achieve this without spankings…. more power to them. Go for it. There is nothing particularly spiritual or non-spiritual about spanking a child or using the fire place, BUT there is something very spiritual about maintaining a household under control of the parents.
It took us at times 2-3 hours to convince three of our kids that we would not allow them to win, we would be in control. One threw her raisins ion the floor and refused to pick them up. Three hours later, lots of tears, no bruising or welts, but lots of bed time and fireplace time, and swats… she picked up every single raison.
Another got out of his crib at nap time over and over again for 90 minutes. Another just tested us constantly and ended up on the fireplace patiently waiting for us to give hugs and reconcile.
Sheila… if parents are abusing their kids with spankings there is far more wrong in that family than the idea that a parent can spank… “while never leaving a mark or bruise.” If your friends kids walked away from discipline and the Lord is want spankings that caused it… look a little deeper as to how the spankings were not applied in love or with a purpose. Spankings are just a tool, and the real key is what is in the heart and mind of the one using the tool. The Pearls spend a lot of time and ministry getting the heart an d minds of parents right, before explaining the tools of spanking…
I will agree that perhaps To Train Up a Child Should be reworked with modern day society in mind, with an emphasis on making sure that a parent wins the early battles, but perhaps with a more creative approach, using spankings as a minor tool. not the primary tool. Take out the word “broken” and replace it with “make sure you win the early battles to maintain control over your child while insuring that your child knows you love them completely and unconditionally.”
Thanks for the conversation 🙂 ken
Ken, I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph! My problem with the Pearls is that they use spankings as the PRIMARY tool, and they do not stop at age 6 at all. To me, there are so many better ways to discipline where you can still be firm, but you are not physically hurting a child. Teaching a child consequences (you grab a toy from a child, you lose a toy; you fail to do your homework, you lose all computer privileges for a week; you leave your clothes all over the floor, you have to do the laundry) is such a better way to discipline. I fail to see why “totally defeating” a child through hitting them with a tree branch of plumb line is the right way to go.
And please remember: internal injuries often do not leave bruises. Their definition of what abuse is is just plain seriously off the mark!
And I would agree with you about the early battles, too. In fact, I’ve written about the “Pyramid idea of discipline”, where the more you do when they’re young, the less you’ll have to do when they’re older. But I don’t believe that you should discipline until a child is willfully disobedient. Winning a battle with a 9-month-old is not a real “win”. That child was not being deliberately disobedient; that baby simply had needs and was crying. To punish them for that ignores all research on child development. Discipline, to me, should not start until a child can think and be disobedient, and that’s far closer to 2 than it is to birth. Until 2, distraction and removal from a situation is far psychologically healthier. A child needs to know that he or she can count on his primary caregiver. If you swat a baby, they don’t understand WHY. All they know is that the person whom they love most is hurting them. That’s tremendously damaging, and those repercussions are long lasting.
Yes, win the early battles (from 2-3 onward), but I don’t think that HAS to involve spanking (though I don’t think spanking is actually wrong). But realize that there are other forms of discipline, and many of them are far more appropriate and far more effective.
I guess that would sum up how I feel, and why I feel that the Pearls are so dangerous and off-base.
I had to skim the book again to see if what you are saying is correct, and I can see how you may have missed it, but the Pearls do make it clear that:
“Training certainly must consider the actions, but discipline should be only concerned about the child’s attitude.” p.81.
The Pearls teach clearly that spilt milk and or toys strewn all over is not a discipline issue but a training issue. Training involves teaching correct thinking, not spanking for incorrect behavior.
They do spend a lot of time give many examples of swats and spankings for disobedience and defiance which may miss the target of what I know they believe, which is to train, train and train, using discipline or spankings only for defiance and wrong attitudes.
The problem as I see it is that we all know we must gain control of our kids early, your pyramid, but children cannot reason early in life and are generally selfish … me first, me, me, me, attitudes. We just found that some minor pain applied at the right spots, at the right time, was so much more efficient and effective than what we watched our friends do.
Our college friends and some family members would comment about how they thought we might be too tough on our young kids insisting on timely obedience, yet 20-30 years later they see the results and say, “You guys knew what you were doing.” Many of their kids have sadly rebelled and walked away from the faith, and some still have their parents wrapped around their finger as they raise the out of wedlock grand kids in their homes. So sad, all because they were afraid to deal with the attitudes when their kids were 2-3 years old.
Here is what I counsel young married couples. When you see your child acting out and being disobedient, imagine them as teenagers and ask yourself if you prefer to deal with their defiance now, or at 15 years old?
I’ll buy that the book may come across as spanking is the only way … but I know that they do not feel this way. They should rewrite the book with a broader emphasis on the principles it teaches while downplaying the need for spankings. Maybe they will… The book is 20 years old, and it ahs been a great tool for thousands of parents, but even with one couple misusing it, it should be republished with more clarity.
It is the fanatic fridge Christian groups that carry their teachings way further than what they intended. The Pearl’s speak against this too… as they are pretty sensible in what they teach, even if you or I may not agree with 100% of it.
I really do hear what you’re saying, but how can a baby be defiant or have the wrong attitude? A baby cannot make a moral choice. A baby needs to be protected, not swatted.
I’m glad you agree that they need to change the book, though.
Thanks for the discussion; I hope it’s been fruitful!
Inflicting purposeful physical harm on an infant is not okay no matter what your intentions. They are learning to explore their world, not being defiant. They need time to learn cause and effect. I feel sorry for parents who have been misguided. Please carefully consider all parenting advice that you receive because when we know better, we do better.
Hi Sheila,
I just found this thread when searching for information on Lori Alexander. I comment on another blog where Lori’s wifely ‘submission’ (gag me) suggestions are being discussed.
I wanted to commend you for your discussion on this thread – about those vile Pearls and their book, which is referred to as “To Beat Up a Child”. Your concerns are valid and pertinent. I see that Lori’s husband also decided to comment, as if to lend support to the Pearls. It doesn’t matter, Ken. Their teaching is loathsome and ill-advised. All the compliments in the world don’t erase the terrible advice to new parents advocated by the Pearls.
Thank you again, Sheila.
Hi Carmen,
Welcome to the blog! It’s funny, I actually wasn’t as adamantly against all of this stuff when I started blogging. But then as I saw the comments I was getting (and most of the really bad ones I delete, because I fear that they show a very negative and obviously inaccurate picture of Christ). And I realized that this wasn’t something that was just fringe, and it was seriously hurting a lot of people. You may also appreciate this post, on 10 things that bother me about the purity culture!