Every Monday I like to post a reader question and take a stab at answering it. I’ve dealt with what to do if your spouse doesn’t find you attractive, when your husband isn’t a spiritual leader, how to prevent an emotional affair, and tons of others.
But today’s question is a little different.
Last week I published a post on family vacations and sex–what do you do if you’re in a small space with a bunch of kids? Is romance out for the week? And basically I said, if you have a good marriage at home, and you’re making sure to get away as a couple periodically, it really is okay to take a week and just focus on being parents, with the occasional quickie if you can manage it. Being in close quarters with children just makes sex difficult, and honestly, sometimes it’s time just to be parents.
I thought that was reasonable, and the vast majority of readers did as well, though some mentioned some creative ways to make love when you’re traveling.
But a few men commented, and one in particular made quite a big deal out of the fact that women would even dream of going on a vacation where sex was not stressed. One man said that to him, sex was 75% of the appeal of the vacation.
I let those comments through, though I debated them.
Then the emails started to come from women. For instance, here’s how some women reading this whole thread interpreted it:
My husband has recently battled a porn addiction and he hasn’t watched porn for over a year. But instead he just talks about sex and talks dirty to me all the time, even when other people are around. We’ll be out at a state campground fishing for tadpoles with the little boys and he’ll lean in and say something really sexually over the top about me. And I can’t understand why he doesn’t get that it’s totally gross to be sex-crazed in front of little kids! Why can’t he just leave it until a better time?
But maybe all men are like that. I read these comments and I’m just left thinking, “God really did make men pigs.” They can’t control themselves. They can’t ever just be a dad and wait for a better time. And I’m just in tears. I want a man who will respect me for me, and who I can make love to, not someone who is always talking about what he wants to do with my boobs. I’m just exhausted. But I guess all men are like that.
I understand where this woman is coming from, because I get some of those thoughts after reading some comments on this blog and many of the emails I receive. There are days when I have to mentally prepare myself, half an hour before my husband gets home, and tell myself, over and over, “Keith is not like these guys. Keith is a good man who truly loves me.” But if you weren’t sure that you had such a good guy–if you were struggling in your marriage as this woman is, and then you read all of those comments, those comments can really make your marriage worse.
And that’s where I’m struggling as a blogger.
There are a handful of men who comment on this blog and leave WONDERFUL, uplifting comments. There’s one I’m thinking of in particular who is in his 70s, and he has sent through lovely bits of encouragement of things that he has learned in his marriage. There are others who have left comments who are really struggling because their wives are truly being difficult in their marriage, and the men want to love their wives and do the right thing, and they really need advice and encouragement. I hope that I can help (and indeed, I’m planning on another post to write for these men to show their wives, because I’ve had a number of requests for it. I do have one here, but I’ll write another one).
But then there are some who comment a lot who seem to have their own agenda, and I can’t quite figure out what it is.
One of the common themes seems to be that women need to have sex lots in their marriage–something that I agree with and that I’ve written a ton about–including in The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex and in 31 Days to Great Sex (and here’s a post on how often married couples should make love).
But they often comment telling me that I don’t stress sex enough, and last week’s post was an example of that. However, that’s not the only post where it’s come up. When I wrote that men shouldn’t demand sex during a woman’s period or for the six weeks after childbirth, I was taken to task for that. When I wrote that “do not deprive” does not mean that a woman can’t refuse sex ever, I was taken for task for that. When I wrote that not all porn use is caused by wives refusing to have sex (and indeed most husbands’ porn addictions today predate the marriage), I was taken to task for that.
Things that to me are about common sense, and balance, are constantly put down. And after I received close to a dozen emails and Facebook messages specifically about the comments on that camping post last week–I’ve never had that happen before in one day–I realized I had to change the way I do things.
I believe that this blog is a ministry, and I want to help people in their marriages. In fact, I would sum up my mission statement on this blog like this:
Pointing women towards the goal of fulfilling, intimate relationships with God first, their husbands second, and their kids third. Helping women find the joy in marriage again, specifically by pointing them to the importance of intimacy of all types: physical, spiritual, and emotional.
That’s what I want to do.
And I believe that I do that in my posts. People may disagree with me; they may think I don’t emphasize submission in marriage enough, or I don’t talk about sex enough. But then, you see, they’re coming with their own agenda.
It is fine to have your own agenda, but I do not have to give people room to push their agenda, especially if the way that they push it directly contradicts my mission. Last week, by letting many of those comments through, I think that I violated my mission, as is evidenced from that woman’s viewpoint. She was already struggling, and these comments made her situation worse, not better. I certainly don’t mind putting up comments that disagree with me (take a look at the submission post, for instance), but I don’t want to put up comments that I believe will be harmful to women who are already struggling and reading this blog.
I understand that some of my male commenters are very passionate about marriage in their own way, and I truly don’t think that these men understand how their comments come across to the hurting women who are reading them. I think these men think they are being helpful, whereas from what I know about women, and about the women who read this blog, they are not.
The problem last week was that I let the comments go on too much–I should have let one through and then left it at that. When only a few guys comment, and they comment A LOT, the impression given is certainly that “all men are like that”.
There is etiquette in parts of the blogging community that you just let all comments through–whether you agree with them or not. Political blogs tend to do that. Opinion blogs do that. They’re for debates.
I originally thought I would do that, but I’m starting to realize that it can be detrimental to my mission. I’m not just writing a blog for people to post their opinions–I’m really honestly trying to help marriages. And if the comments don’t do that, then I have to rethink my comment policy.
I have so many women emailing me now saying they want to comment, but they find the comment section so nasty. And that’s not really helpful towards creating the kind of community I want here.
I’m sorry if I inadvertently hurt any of you last week. And so I’ve decided to not let any more comments through from that household.
But now I’d like YOU to help ME.
I’ve been thinking about this whole issue of community–how we can build one more, and how we can encourage one another. I WANT lots of comments that encourage each other, and even lots of comments with suggestions and “here’s what worked for me” things. I even want comments that challenge people politely and gently. I just don’t want anymore comments that I feel are very harmful to women who are struggling.
I want to create a place where those of you who DON’T comment will feel safe commenting. So ESPECIALLY if you haven’t commented before, can you leave one now and tell me what I can do to make this blog community more welcoming for you? I really do want to work at creating a helpful community, and if many of you all are afraid of commenting, or steer away from the comments section in fear of what you will read, I’m obviously not doing my job.
But I’m also thinking that maybe we could build more of a safe community vibe if we could come up with a name for those of us who are here at this blog, trying to improve our marriages. You know how some bloggers give names to their readers? I’d like to give us names. I just can’t think of any. I don’t want the name to be anything to do with MY name–like Sheilaites, or something like that. I don’t want it to be about me, but about marriage.
Here’s one that WOULDN’T work, but gives the kind of feel I’m thinking of: HotMamas. It wouldn’t work because we’re not all Mamas, and I’m sick of emphasizing “hot”. But that kind of cute thing. So that I can ask questions at the end of posts, like, “What do all you XXs think?”
And I want this SO badly I’ll give $50 worth of products to whoever comes up with the winning name! I’ll leave this thread open for a week and then I’ll put up my favourites here and on Facebook so we can vote on it.
So leave me a comment, telling me:
1. How can we make this more of a safe community, with a great comment section? AND
2. What name should we use for all of us?
Thanks so much! Eager to see your responses.
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 25 years and happily married for 20! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 8 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
I’m sorry there have been negative and disrespectful comments from men. 🙁 Please do limit the comments that aren’t respectful and objective–you have a wonderful blog and ministry here, and I know you want to honor the Lord in whatever is posted. Praying to that end!
2. What name should we use for all of us? Sorry no ideas here. I’ve never been into naming stuff but whatever makes other people happy.
1. How can we make this more of a safe community, with a great comment section?
Honestly? It depends on what you mean by “safe”? “safe” for the majority of readers? “safe” for the majority of female readers? “safe” for all readers?
Because there is nothing anyone can do about the last. I know some blogs only allow female commenters, but I feel that discourages some women because they want to hear the male side of things, it also can discourage some readers who feel it is against their ideas of equality. I don’t have an opinion either way on that. To me, that’s up to the community and/or the blogger to decide and I just happily abide by whatever the decision. So don’t really have an opinion on that.
Basically my opinions on both the questions are “whatever” whatever you decide, whatever the community decides, whatever is for the best.
But there was something I had to comment on though. The statement “but I don’t want to put up comments that I believe will be harmful to women who are already struggling and reading this blog.” The reality is, every comment has this potential to be harmful to women who are struggling and reading this blog. It is NOT your fault, and you have nothing to apologise for.
But I did want to say, that it’s not always the comments that people assume are the harmful ones, that actually are. Or a better way of putting it than that, is a discussion like the camping one, every single comment on both sides of the argument were harmful to someone. Some comments may have been harmful to women than men, others were simply more harmful to struggling people than those reading who weren’t struggling, but there were comments (which I think were later removed) and ones that weren’t removed but obviously not popular, that if I hadn’t read, I would have found things more of a struggle if I hadn’t been able to read those comments before they were removed, and even more so if all the comments on that side of the argument had been removed.
Last week was the first time I felt unwelcome as part of the community of readers. Not because of one or two men that took things a little too far in their views of importance of sex, but in the dozens of women who replied. I felt many of their posts were extremely harmful to women like myself who are struggling with a husband with a low drive. But I didn’t complain (and not complaining now) because that is their opinion and their entitles to it. But if it was the first article I’d come to the blog and read, I’d have left and never come back. And if their’s were the only comments posted on the topic, even after 9ish months of hanging around, I probably would have left quite hurt. I loved Sheila that you left up the opposing viewpoint, even when it opposed your own view on the topic. Because it deeply helps struggling women who believe the opposing viewpoint, that desperately need to hear it.
“Last week, by letting many of those comments through, I think that I violated my mission, as is evidenced from that woman’s viewpoint. She was already struggling, and these comments made her situation worse, not better. ” I honestly don’t think you did violate your mission. As someone who was really struggling, having had sex just once in the previous month at that point, if those comments by men had not gone through, it would have my situation (as a woman) worse not better. If you hadn’t had those comments gone through, I’d have left very hurting, very depressed, in pain, thinking I was alone for thinking having sex on vacation is a priority. While it obviously opposed your viewpoint, I was so grateful you let those comments through because they provided so much reassurance for my own situation and without them, I think I would have sunk into a pit of despair with how I was feeling a week ago.
I guess what I’m trying to say is sometimes struggling women really need to hear the other side of the argument, especially when they are feeling alone, particularly on topics of sex when they are being constantly refused.
We all have our opinions, in the example above with the porn addiction guy, I’d say firstly all men are NOT like that. My husband is not one of them, but instead of saying “thank God!” instead I am left thinking “I wish he was. Why can’t be like most men and be like that”. If you take out the porn addiction and just leave in a guy who talks sexual to his wife, in some ways I find it hurtful the reply that you’re glad your husband is a good man and not like that. Because it implies a man who does that isn’t a good one. While my husband is a good man, his goodness isn’t about him not doing those things. I know lots of good men who DO speak like that to their wives, and their wives love it. It makes them feel loved and wanted and desired and builds desire for when they can get their alone time for later.
“But if you weren’t sure that you had such a good guy–if you were struggling in your marriage as this woman is, and then you read all of those comments, those comments can really make your marriage worse.” If I was really struggling (as I was last week), if I came and read that, it would have me feel worse and make me less patience with my husbands refusal problem, and would make it hard not to have my marriage be worse. Last week I was in tears, because I want a man who will respect me, who I can move love to, who notices that I have a body, that I want him to desire instead of just tolerate.
I’m not saying it’s your fault, not in any way at all. What I am saying is that no matter what you write, what other people comment in reply, there will always be someone who is hurt by it, there will always be someone who came for help and walks away struggling more, not less. It is not your fault in any way Sheila, but that’s why I feel it’s so important to let people with an opposive view share it – so there is reassurance for struggling women who come, who fall on the other side of the fence and desperately need to hear that someone (even it it’s 99% men) feel the same way they do.
Of course, if anything is disrespectful, nasty, rude, attacking etc, it needs to be removed. But to remove all opposing viewpoints in case it makes a few women struggle more to hear them, I think is a mistake -because there are also struggling women who believe that opposing viewpoint who need to read it to make their struggle bearable to know they are not alone.
Rather than removing all oppposing viewpoints, I honestly believe you are are doing your best work in what you have done already – replying with emphasis and further clarity on your viewpoint so that those who are struggling in that way and hear it reiterated, but on the other hand, those who are struggling on the other side of things can still see that there are others who feel the same way they do and are not alone.
Hope that makes sense and is not offensive in any way. I’ve had a rough couple of days with morning sickness that has been all night and barely slept and not sure if I’m making any sense at all by now.
My sister loved reading my blog until I started allowing all comments and then she told me that after reading all the comments she had a pit in her stomach. I decided I didn’t want to allow mean or nasty comments anymore, gentle disagreements, yes, but nothing that was in any way mean or disheartening. I completely agree with you, Sheila. We are to dwell on the lovely and the good, even in our blogs.
I quite often skip over butterfly wings comments, because I don’t agree with a lot of what she has to say, but today I 100% agree with her. I made a comment on Lori’s blog once which was deleted and I was blocked. even after I contacted her and apologized, no comments were allowed again. I have since lost all interest in her blog, which I once found so encouraging and has even helped me through a tough time. I know she thinks of me as a troll.
Maybe like another reader commented you can limit the amount of words, and times people can comment, but please don’t stop freedom of speech. You can’t please all the people all the time.
I don’t remember your comment, Louisa, or apology but I try to be very fair on which comments I allow on my blog. Even yesterday I allowed one that was attacking me until someone commented on how ugly the comments had become. I enjoy a healthy discussion but when it becomes mean in any way, I delete them. If someone writes me and apologizes, I usually always put back there comment because I then know they are not a troll. I am sorry if I offended you. I have no intention of ever intentionally offending my readers. I enjoy a healthy discussion but when it becomes mean in any way, I delete them.
I think on the other side of the spectrum, that you sometimes get women who are struggling in their marriage so much, or who have been hurt very badly, that everything everybody says is tainted by that to them. Nothing anybody says is good enough of an answer. Not sure if their is a solution, but that is one of the things that I see happen at times as well.
Thinking hard about a name…. I love that idea.
Safe comments? gotta think on that. I know of one blog author who just disables comments, but her purpose is different.
Praying for you, Sheila. You’ve got some big decisions here.
I do not read the comments anymore for this reason. People write more in their comments than you do in the entire blog. Maybe you could limit one or two posts from each reader, no more than that. If they want to get into a debate they can privately email each other. That way their opinion is heard but they don’t have to repeat themselves saying the same things over and over. Maybe something such as each comment must have a suggestion for helping or a “here’s what worked for me” comment, instead of just accusing, or arguing or a woe is me post. They can suggest something different than you (part of having a different opinion).
My husband calls me his “Bride” not wife. Maybe something like PassionBrides (passonate about saving our marriages)
This is a very well-written post. I appreciate how you handled this. Having ministry blogs is hard because while you want to allow for discussion, there are times that discussion can be threatening to your mission. I’ve had to state a couple times at Beggar’s Daughter that men are not allowed to make comments supporting the use of pornography, or that are sexual, or degrading in nature. I have a few whose comments I simply don’t approve because they read like pornography and the point of what I do is to get women out of that.
I don’t know that I can answer your questions specifically. I have a pretty silent commenting community because of the sensitive nature of the topic. If I allowed anonymous commenting, that might help mine a little bit. I just really wanted to encourage you in this. You are making the right choice. As ministry leaders we are charged with tending to the hearts of those who come to us and we need to protect them as much as within our power.
Perhaps, though, you could limit the number of ‘direct replies’ to comments? I think when people are replied to directly, they are more likely to feel threatened and misunderstood. People can come on and state their own opinions but can’t leave a rambling tirade in response to Mary Sue’s opinion. They don’t know Mary Sue’s story. They aren’t living her marriage. They can’t really say anything, unless it is to encourage her. Limiting direct debate might help.
I’ve also found that, especially on my Facebook page (where comments aren’t moderated), when someone comes in with a comment that is iffy, I issue a statement in reply to it. I find that if I say something first, others tend to stay out of the discussion and watch. They stay out of ‘the line of fire’ so to speak. I like to think of it as fighting on behalf of my women. I don’t mind if they argue with me, but I take it personally if they go after my readers. It’s our job to keep it safe, so good for you!
“People can come on and state their own opinions but can’t leave a rambling tirade in response to Mary Sue’s opinion. They don’t know Mary Sue’s story. They aren’t living her marriage. They can’t really say anything, unless it is to encourage her. Limiting direct debate might help”
I agree with this statement. I have noticed that at times a comment is made, and it becomes an opportunity for others to attack that person. Instead of the commentators using the model of “I” as in this is my opinion, it becomes a “you” as in You should be doing this or you should not be doing this, or you are wrong for allowing that.
An example of this is the post last week about the vacation and camping. I left a post that said we do have sex while in a camper,( I left out the part that we are discreet, I just assumed that was a given) and several of the later posts said I was wrong, it was bad parenting, etc.etc. etc.
And I felt attacked. It tempted me to want to never return. Perhaps I am too sensitive, and I shouldn’t be affected by others opinions. But I don’t come here for attack. I come here to read helpful God focused good reads. Especially since I agree with a lot of what is written.
Warrior Wives, another blog spot asked the question of whether women feel comfortable when men post on her blog, or do they shy away form commenting knowing men will read and critique. Several women were ok with that and welcomed another perspective, but several others felt that sometimes the men crossed a line in giving too much detail or going too deep about the particular problems they were facing within their marriage. .
I think in order to keep it “safe” we all need to be aware of the lines we should not cross. No one comes here to feel attacked for an opinion.
That’s the problem with having a public forum…its public….and open to the public. I completely understand censoring comments to fulfill your mission. Glad you said that, never thought of that perspective.
I’m not sure how to make the comments section more comfortable, I have the same questions myself, so I’ll be looking for insights as well.
One option is a message board to discuss posts.
And I have so much I want to say to the woman you quoted in the post at the beginning, but if I start, this will turn into a blog post in and of itself…
People may disagree with me; they may think I don’t emphasize submission in marriage enough, or I don’t talk about sex enough. But then, you see, they’re coming with their own agenda.
Or maybe they just disagree with you and want to discuss/debate the issue.
Posting your opinions on a blog is going to create a debate, especially on sex and marriage. If you don’t want people to debate and discuss, then don’t allow comments. If disagreement hurts your feelings – and your complaints about “I was taken to task for that” indicate this to be true – then don’t allow comments.
Not everyone is going to agree with you and disagreeing is not hurtful, disrespectful, mean-spirited, or taking you to task. Disagreement is simply disagreement. If you really want to help those in difficult marriages, then exposing women to both sides of the issue is probably the most helpful thing you can possibly do. And if being exposed to the other side hurts your readers’ feelings, then they likely need more help than your blog will ever be able to provide.
As far as the camping post is concerned, my wife loved it, but I disagreed. Then again, I like sex but my wife has spent 20 years trying to avoid it, so your post just gave her another reason not to have sex. I suspect we will be taking a lot more camping trips in the future.
I believe the best comment on the post was made by Amber who said:
“Bathrooms at a hotel or relative’s house, family shower rooms at campgrounds, fun under a blanket in the dark by the camp fire after the little kids are in bed, etc. If it doesn’t work out, fine. But my husband feels loved every time I try or even think of a way to try. :-)”
Sex is important to her husband, so Amber tries to find fun and creative ways to make her husband feel loved. Amber understands her husband, and instead of trying to change him or make him “behave”, she embraces who he is and what he needs and she tries to make him feel loved whenever possible.
In short, if more wives approached sex with Amber’s attitude, the divorce rate would plummet. God bless Amber.
Now, if only there was a way to clone and distribute her attitude to other wives.
Hi Mark! Just a quick thought on your comment that applies to Sheila’s article. You are writing specifically from your situation. And what you are saying is important for you and your wife, and what Sheila said in the vacation article impacted your marriage situation in a particular way. But the way you are bringing it up for discussion is to take your situation and apply it to all marriages, ever, and making generalizations that “wives are like this, husbands are like this” etc. Perhaps a way to make this comment section better would be to make disagreements more personal — i.e., “this article seems bad for my marriage because we are in this particular situation, and maybe people who are also in this situation could look at it like this” rather than “this article will be bad for all marriages because women don’t want to have sex.” Does that make sense? Could that help? Disagreeing, and coming from your own perspective is a good thing to be able to do, but if we do it in a less generalizing, more specific way, it could clear up some of the frustration from people who aren’t in that situation (higher drive wives, for instance). I hope this does not feel attack-like to you — the way you phrased your comment brought this idea to mind, and I think it might help. If it does, I apologize very much.
Disagree.
If you read my comment again, you’ll see that I actually separate the issues.
First, I address the comment issue. Sheila’s post this morning struck me as a “woe is me, people disagree with me and I have to defend myself” exercise. People disagreed with her in the camping thread and she interpreted the disagreement as people pursuing their own agenda.
Disagreement does not mean someone is pursuing their own agenda, it usually means they simply disagree. No need to be paranoid about other agendas when the most likely issue is simple disagreement.
As for my personal situation, yeah, I viewed her camping advice through personal experience, but so did my wife and so did every person who read that column. I suspect every spouse who avoids sex read the camping post with a sigh of relief, while every sexually deprived spouse read it with a sigh of despair, meanwhile the Ambers of the world read it and thought “What’s the big deal, find a way to have sex.”
I hope this does not feel attack-like to you — the way you phrased your comment brought this idea to mind, and I think it might help. If it does, I apologize very much.
No worries, I am not a delicate wall flower. I can take as well as I give in any debate. The key is to never take disagreements personally and I think that is where Sheila sometimes struggles.
Mark, I’m sorry if I wasn’t clearer in the article. I COMPLETELY agree that disagreement does not mean that one is pushing an agenda; that’s why I let disagreeing comments on.
But as Anna pointed out in another comment, there IS an agenda that is quite different from mine that is being pushed on the internet, and often those with that agenda show up here. It goes beyond a disagreement and into a whole other realm.
From what I know of you and your comments, I would never say that you had an “agenda” that was different from mine at all–creating a more intimate, harmonious marriage. There may be times we approach it differently, but I believe that our “agendas”, for lack of a better word, would be the same, and I do appreciate you being here.
And I’ll write that other post for men in your situation soon, too!
“Disagreement does not mean someone is pursuing their own agenda, it usually means they simply disagree”. Totally agree that this applies to the vast majority of commenters…no agenda, just disagreement. However, having dealt with some of the same types of problem comments, there are definitely those who come across as wanting to evangelize bloggers with whom they disagree. Certain people only comment when the subject is submission or sex, they have A LOT to say and they always say the same thing. At a certain point, if you know you disagree with someone on a particular topic, then what is the point of continuing to argue about it? Just leave it alone…don’t start an argument…it really comes across as pure antagonism. The discussions are impossible, never ending and frequently incorporate more personal criticisms. Having read the much-debated camping post (and commented), part of the problem there was someone oversharing and declaring that a certain viewpoint is true across the board for all men, which (having talked about it with one other husband – my own) is pretty inaccurate.
Exactly. I just want to point out that on that post, I actually didn’t let through several of his comments that were even more explicit.
Certain people only comment when the subject is submission or sex, they have A LOT to say and they always say the same thing.
I understand those individuals may be pursuing their own agenda, but Sheila said the following:
People may disagree with me; they may think I don’t emphasize submission in marriage enough, or I don’t talk about sex enough. But then, you see, they’re coming with their own agenda.
In other words, she grouped those who disagree with her in with those who may very well be pursuing their own agenda on other issues such as submission. Granted, this may not have been her intent, but it is what she wrote and how I interpreted what she wrote, so I, naturally, disagreed with her. 🙂
In regards to keeping things civil on blog comments, what I have found works best is to simply state your opinion and then only reply to those commenters who specifically address your original comment. This approach usually keeps debates within proper boundaries and avoids any one person from monopolizing the conversation.
Yes, you’re right–I didn’t word it well. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
Mark,
In regards your above comment about the camping post…
Sheila clearly stated in the post “IF you are regularly enjoying a fulfilling sex life in your marriage, forgoing sex for a week of vacation is not going to be detrimental to your marriage” (paraphrased from my recollection)
Clearly, if your wife has spent the last 20 years avoiding sex, then this article was not for you. Her intended audience for THIS post was a sex-healthy couple. She didn’t say “pssst, wives… here’s a way you can get out of sex for a week” I’m a bit baffled as to why you would show your wife that post. If your wife is avoiding sex 51 weeks of the year, then whether or not you get some during a week away in a tent is irrelevant don’t you think? Sheila has plenty of other posts addressing sexless marriage issues that you would probably find more helpful to your situation. Don’t take her to task over a post that she never intended to address a refusing spouse in.
To your credit, I do realize that you refrained from commenting in the “camping sex” thread, but you brought it up here so I felt it was fair to point that out to you.
Mark, my apologies, I thought you had said that you showed your wife the camping post. Disregard my statement about why you would even show her that post. My bad….
I didn’t show my wife the camping post, she read it on her own. We both read Sheila’s blog.
This blog came up in conversation, I asked if she had read the camping post, then we discussed our opinions of the piece, which naturally came down on opposite sides of the issue, as it usually does regarding all things sex.
Just the way we roll. 😉
I think it’s just wonderful that there are husbands who read this blog. My husband would rather stick a knife in his own eye!
Don’t take her to task over a post that she never intended to address a refusing spouse in.
I didn’t take Sheila to task at all regarding her thoughts on sex and vacation. I simply said “I disagreed.” That is hardly “taking her to task.”
However, what I did come away from the vacation post with is the thought that a lot of people put a great deal of effort into trying to justify and/or avoid having sex with their spouse. The fact that people are reduced to asking a blogger if it is okay for them not to have sex on vacation tells you just how screwed up people are in our society and churches today.
Of course it is okay not to have sex on vacation, as long as both of you agree not to have sex on vacation. (“Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.” – i Cor. 7:5)
Instead of asking if it is okay to avoid sex on vacation, though, wouldn’t it be healthier for marriages if people stopped looking for excuses not to have sex and started looking for reasons to have sex?
Add up all the time, emotions and psychological energy expended on a negative (finding reasons and times to say no) and imagine how great marriages would be if all of that time, emotion and energy were spent on a positive (finding reasons and times to say yes).
At the end of the day most questions on sex can be boiled down to one thing: attitude. If you have a positive attitude toward sex, then sex isn’t going to be a major issue in your marriage, whether on vacation or at home. If your attitude toward sex is negative, then sex is going to be a major issue on vacation and at home.
In short, fix the attitude and most “can I or can’t I” sex questions become beautifully irrelevant.
I just don’t understand what the big deal is about. To me, after reading the camping post, and your replies, I feel like MOST everyone is pretty close to the same conclusion.
“At the end of the day most questions on sex can be boiled down to one thing: attitude. If you have a positive attitude toward sex, then sex isn’t going to be a major issue in your marriage, whether on vacation or at home. If your attitude toward sex is negative, then sex is going to be a major issue on vacation and at home.
In short, fix the attitude and most “can I or can’t I” sex questions become beautifully irrelevant.”
I think that hits the nail on the head!! I certainly don’t think that Sheila wants to give anyone an out to not have sex, just simply that as long as you have a healthy sex life ALL YEAR LONG, kids interfering with your personal time while in close quarters on a family vacation needs to be taken in stride. No one needs to get bent out of shape if it really isn’t very conducive to having sex. Of course, if you’re able to find the time, go for it! Otherwise, make up for it once you’re home. NO BIG DEAL.
For instance, we took a family (extended family) vacation last spring where my whole family rented a condo. My 2 yr. old and 1 yr. old had to sleep in our room (and they typically sleep in their own bedrooms). Even though we had pack ‘n plays for them, them knowing that we were right there caused serious problems and we couldn’t get them to go to sleep except for in our bed- in the middle of course! It was a ski trip, so we were exhausted at night anyway, so by the time that the kids fell asleep we were typically asleep ourselves. Even if we weren’t, we couldn’t leave them on the bed while we went elsewhere for fear of them falling off! We only found time and opportunity once that week to have sex between our kids and other family members being in such close quarters, but that was ok. It was an amazing trip, that I wouldn’t take back for anything! To say that I am not going to go on vacation again with my family because I wasn’t able to prioritize sex for one week would be so sad to me! We have had ample opportunity to make up for it over the past few months, and I am left with all the amazing memories from that trip, not the memory that “oh, how dissappointing, I was only able to have sex just once”. I just feel like that was basically the extent of what Sheila was trying to say.
I don’t think that many wives would truly think that this is an excuse not to have sex on vacation. I think that most people who say that are just looking for an excuse and don’t truly believe in their hearts that Sheila’s post supports that. Anyone looking for an excuse doesn’t have a good attitude towards sex all year long. Those people need to read Sheila’s other posts. I believe that this camping post, taken in the context of Sheila’s other posts, really isn’t that controversial. Sure, it isn’t for EVERYBODY, which post is? Some couples may always want to prioritize sex, and for them, they need to plan a vacation where they can. Some people always have sexual tension, so what matters if it is while on vacation or at home? However, as a general rule, sometimes things just aren’t going to be conducive to having sex and as long as you make up for it later, don’t sweat it!
I didn’t think the post was controversial. I think most of the controversy was from one or two commenters who were very insistent on making their point.
What I found troubling was the question. If sex on vacation stresses you out, then you’re not doing it (vacation and sex) right.
Hi Sheila! I’ve never actually left a message before. I hadn’t heard of your blog until I heard you were coming to our church with keith to speak, I began following you right away! I am blessed to say I don’t struggle in my marriage as many of these women do, but! I was always open to growing in my marriage but I guess I just didn’t realize how..until I started reading your blog and books! Although we didn’t start out in a bad place by any means, we have definitely grown in these past few months, and look forward to how much more we can grow! I’m learning so much about marriage that I didn’t realize that I didn’t even know!
Sheila, my heart always feels so heavy for you when you feel beaten up and the enemy makes you second guess your minsitry. You have a wonderful ministry and it’s just so so important! I pray for you as often as I think of it.
You’re right. this is not a debate blog. it’s to guide women to better understanding of marriages, which you do! Continue to let God work though you!
I’m sorry I’m not very good with words, but I do hope you hear my heart and feel encouraged!
I also meant to mention that I don’t normally read the comments anyways. I follow you daily but don’t normally have time (or interest to be honest) in the comments. I’m pretty new to the whole blog world too, but I’m kind of amazed what a world you’ve introduced me to!
My Dad used to often (affectionately) call my mum Mrs Woman, which always made us chuckle. How does Mrs Women (collectively) and Mrs Woman (singularly) sound?
Be encouraged. Any time you’re putting God’s Word and Godly perspectives on display, Satan is going to use people to try to tear you down. As long as you’re being obedient to the Lord and following the Spirit, you’re on the right track. Thank you for your ministry!
(****Sheila’s note: This is an example of a comment that I normally would delete (and promise to from now on): My comments in reply)*****
Angela,
Many of us who disagree with Sheila from time to time are not “Satan’s tools” but learned students of the Word. We realize how important the topics Sheila addresses are, and what a great ministry opportunity the Lord has given her to enhance and develop godly marriages. As Mark says, there are times that people will disagree with the author of a blog, and for the most part with Sheila, it is a disagreement in perspective and application, as she truly gets much of what a marriage should be all about.
All that being said, either Sheila wants “iron sharpening iron” or she wants her own perspectives only showing on her blog. She should thoughtfully remove all excessive or derogatory comments, but be careful as she has done so far to leave those comments which simply show another side of what a Christian marriage is like or should be like.
Most Christian men are not “pigs” when it comes to our wives, but we would love it if our wife came to us and said, “I would like to do a sixty day experiment where I show you and myself that I can be sold out and surrendered to the man of my dreams. So I am going to try to be fully submissive and give you sex any time, any place, just to show you I love you. All I ask is that as I am going to a very vulnerable place, please try to show me you love me, and what our marriage would look like if I was sold out to you forever, instead of always looking at ways I have to protect myself from you.”
I believe that one of the greatest weaknesses of many Christian marriages is that the wife really does not trust her husband to love her and meet her needs without her demands and controlling the marriage. This leads to a vicious cycle of distrust, instead of following the Biblical example of submission, which can lead to trust and ultimately true intimacy, or as Sheila puts it “Oneness.”
We are all after the same goals for our marriages, but yes, my experience is just as stated above. Twenty years of a wife demanding an intimate marriage all the while protecting herself and her agenda from her husband. When she began to give in on the big and little things, including IF and how we had sex on a camping trip, then she began to blossom as a woman and wife and become the wife of my dreams. We are both happy trying to please God together.
What I write may be disagreement, but it is certainly not from Satan :), but from God’s Word and a 33 year Christian successful marriage.
Here is an example of a comment that I frequently delete, and will continue to in the past.
Why does this make me uncomfortable?
I don’t think it’s completely appropriate for a man to be commenting on a woman’s blog about what men want sexually in such terms. It seems unseemly, and a little off. If you wouldn’t say it in mixed company at church, I don’t think we should say it in mixed company on a blog.
There is a world of difference between a woman commenting such things and a man commenting such things, since my audience is primarily female.
I have had posts challenging women to make love much more frequently, and even try an experiment where they make love everyday for a while.
But I wouldn’t have phrased it that way (because I think it can be taken the wrong way in many marriages), and I think there’s a difference between me as a blogger saying it, and a random male commenter. I don’t think most women who come here want to read that kind of thing from male commenters, and I don’t feel as if it’s appropriate.
Again, as I said in the post, I am not against men commenting at all. It’s just that there is a line of appropriateness, and as the host of this blog, it’s up to me to maintain that line.
So I won’t let this sort of thing through again, but I thought I’d show you all what kind of things I delete everyday.
Thanks for explaining that Sheila. I’m reading most of the comments via email and in chronological order, and was wondering why Bootsy’s comment would normally be deleted (other than the obvious extreme view of “submission” and obviously not understanding the concept of a woman having valid reasons to say no), but I love your explanation because it’s so thorough and logical 🙂
Wow, all of that and I was just trying to encourage Sheila! I never said a word about sex!
1. I think a blog is defined by its owner(s)/creator(s). While reader satisfaction is important, it’s not quite as important as the owner/creator fulfilling their purpose for the blog; there’s a lot of time sacrificed with little compensation so it should be fulfilling. Bloggers are writing passionately about something that matters to them and something they believe needs to be shared… and they should decide how it is to be shared and whether debate and strong criticism are a part of the picture.
I also want to say that I appreciate your common sense approach and diversity of perspectives. I probably represent a minority (way more interested in sex than the husband), but reading your blog is still helpful and I don’t feel as much like there’s something completely wrong with us as I do when reading other marriage blogs.
How to make the blog commenting better- make a disclaimer that comments have to be constructive, directed at your writing instead of other commenters, whatever you feel like to problem areas are. Then feel free to remove/not post the comments that go against the guidelines.
1. Shulamites
I like this one! I’d vote for that.
To be more of a community, I think the encouraging comments and questions should be allowed. Each commenter can tell if someone else is out of line besides leaving it all up to Sheila. As for a name, no suggestion, but not one that is cheesy.
Lots of comments on this post already and not lots of time to read them, so sorry if I repeat what’s already been said!
I wonder if the men who comment in this way (arguing against balance, etc), are perhaps in marriages where their wives constantly refuse sex. So they aren’t arguing against the idea, necessarily (that sometimes it’s not the right time for sex), they are perhaps arguing against what feels like permission for their wives to continue refusing them? I find that my husband is way, way more okay with me turning down sex when necessary, when I am sure that we have mutually enjoyable, regular sex at all other times. If we have good (intimate, fun, passionate, whatever) sex regularly, he’s way more okay with skipping out for a week for vacation or period, and he was really okay with that DOCTOR-ORDERED recovery time post-birth, potentially especially because we figured out ways to be physically intimate without it being uncomfortable (or, in the case of that 6 weeks post-birth time, dangerous) for me. But if the general routine in our marriage was little to no sex (or me refusing most times, rather than accepting and initiating), I could see him being frustrated with advice that said it was okay for me to refuse, no matter how reasonable the circumstance.
Anyway, just some thoughts about that.
I think you have a lot of good points here, that also apply to a variety of situations. Most comments and articles will seem off (or even hurtful) to some, because there’s often people reading who are going through an almost completely opposite situation. Perhaps the best thing we can do is a) keep encouraging respectful tones in dissenting opinions (or really, all opinions!) and b) encourage all of us who are commenting to see that they are speaking from their own situations that may not be universally the case.
I don’t like the name idea – its cliquish and it assumes that when you address “the Hotmamas (for example)” they all feel the same way – which is not humanly possible.
I think because you write about such sensitive topics, you’re going to have a variety of comments. I think there’s something to be said for maturity and wisdom which may be lacking in some of the comments. Men may start out feeling that way about their sex drives within christian marriages – but if they stay there it becomes a problem, as evidenced by comments and what results from it.
It is sometimes good to have ignorance exposed – but your blog may not be the space for it and you may not have the capacity to deal with it.
I don’t have a good solution in terms of the commenters; God will surely provide wisdom and a solution in this area.
I’ll be the captain obvious and stick my foot in it – to those of you who might be wondering what the veiled reference to an ‘agenda’ is, Sheila is (I think) talking about an internet movement collectively called the ‘manosphere’. It’s kind of hard to describe but this group believes that women like rough handling, men should only marry virgins or never marry, the way to a woman’s heart is by domination, if you have marriage problems then you aren’t being dominant enough, etc. I could go on. I can somewhat understand the attraction of those ideas because many men are starving for advice on how to be a man, and there is enough truth in those blogs to initially be attractive, but the rest is pure poison.
I used to be a regular ‘manosphere’ reader before the Lord convicted me of reading garbage and showed me how unbiblical their beliefs are. I saw how it was affecting my life in a negative way so I quit. Although some of the other blogs I regularly read started to pick up on ‘manosphere’ tenets. Gender roles are a difficult topic and it’s easy to fall off into the ditch on either side of the road.
Manosphere commenters can be really nasty at times so I would encourage people to pray for them, for God to teach them and show them what the biblical truth is, and for them to avoid long-lasting relationship damage from any faulty ideas.
Yes, exactly! Thank you.
Well – to be fair there’s “marriage and long term relationship” manosphere advice and there’s “That’s flip-flapping woman!” manosphere advice. The folks on the marriage side (like Athol Kay) tend to be more reasonable 🙂 For men trying to find a good relationship balance between “confident, unflappable leader” and “tender, supportive husband” some of what’s out there can be a huge help, but it takes a discerning eye to sort the good stuff from the rabble rousers.
So, I have this Mommy friends group on Facebook where we all exchange information. There are a lot of different types of Moms on the group: cloth diapers, disposables, baby wearing, non-babywearing, co-sleeping, crib sleeping… you get my point.
The thing is, we have never, as far as I can remember, had a single nasty argument. There are some seriously opinionated people on there, but we share information and vulnerability and opinions freely, without being judgmental. Why is it that a group of 134 women from varied backgrounds can talk that way when out national media can’t shut up about the “mommy wars”?
Because we’re just plain respectful. That’s it. We’re all just trying to do the best we can, and we all assume the best of one another and we’re respectful. When someone starts making assumptions or ascribing motivations or feelings to other commenters, they aren’t being respectful. You can be Christian or not and still understand the need for common respect. You can be a man commenting on a “woman’s blog” and still get the need for common respect. You can disagree with someone and still get the need for common respect.
I wonder how the wives of some of these men would feel if they read some of their comments. I would be horrified if my husband was discussing our sex life with another woman. I think a good rule of thumb when posting a comment is to think about what your spouse would think about your comment. If you would be embarrassed for them to read it or if they would be embarrassed to read it then maybe it’s better left unposted.
Amen Angela!
I think that you should not allow comments that you feel are not helpful. It is your blog, you should make the call. I have very much enjoyed reading what you write!!
Excellent point!
Totally Agree!!
I agree, my wife reads everything I write (comments, blog posts, emails) that reference her at all (directly or indirectly). God forbid I ever misrepresent our marriage, or say something about our marriage that I wouldn’t feel comfortable telling her. Plus, I want her to see all the nice things I’m saying about her.
Sheila,
I know it’s difficult, but please don’t take comments personally. While many are offering a different viewpoint in a respectful way, there are those who just want to stir up the pot and honestly aren’t going to be happy until everyone agrees with everything they are saying. It’s their problem, not yours. I agree that disrespectful comments should be removed, but even at that, someone is going to find offense at the most respectful, reasonable comment. It’s unavoidable. You can’t hold yourself responsible for how everyone reacts to things.
You clearly have a very healthy, mutually respectful and loving marriage, and you often write from that viewpoint. Which is completely understandable, but not everyone is there. So while those with a similarly healthy marriage read your camping post and your submission post and resonated with your words, those in less healthy marriages felt the need to be heard and “represent” the other side. I think that’s okay too… the problem is when everyone expects everyone else to be reading each post through the same lenses. It. just. isn’t. going. to. happen. And you can’t address every variable in your post. ***and no,I’m not saying everyone who disagreed is in an unhealthy marriage***
I for one find the respectfully dissenting comments valuable. I read the camping post thinking “yea, she’s right… not every vacation needs to be a sexcapade” but then reading from men who stated how hurt they would feel made me step back and think “oh yea, I need to realize than my husband may feel differently about it” It was a good reminder to me that there are 2 people in this marriage, i’ts not all about me 🙂 Same with the submission post… I enjoyed mulling over each comment and being challenged to think outside of my comfort box. I was actually challenged to be more submissive at times as well as to be less inclined to always need to have my opinion heard.
Remember your mission.. your mission is about encouraging women in their walk with the Lord and in their marriages. That is a great mission and you are doing just that. Your mission isn’t about fixing severely damaged marriages is it?.. you can offer encouragement and I know you do. I know you spend a lot of time in personal communication with these hurting women, but you can’t worry about how those women are going to receive every comment. Does that make sense? Blogs don’t fix broken marriages and while I know this is going to sound terribly unsympathetic, you can’t manage your blog through the lenses of the severely wounded. It would be kindof like planning an entire feast around that one person who is allergic to everything. It just can’t be done. Is that a terrible thing to say? I don’t mean it to be. really… just hoping to help you gain perspective.
Hi Happywife,
Thanks so much! Yes, I honestly didn’t mind the disagreement on the submission post at all. Those aren’t the ones that bother me. It’s usually the posts that relate to sex, like the camping one. I really don’t mind disagreement; I just don’t want to publish things that cross an appropriateness boundary line or that say something that can be hurtful, you know?
Of course… there is never a place for inappropriateness or hurtful comments, but as others have pointed out, someone is going to be offended over “Have a nice day”. You can’t worry about catering to every sensitivity/wound out there. Delete the overtly rude/inappropriate stuff, but don’t fret when someone e-mails you to say that she was hurt over a man saying that he needs sex every day. (I know that wasn’t exactly the case….)
I think any comment promoting anything you are distinctly against doesn’t need to be let through. If they want to share their opinions that directly contradict what you stand for they can get their own blog. I think last week’s topic is a gray area that depends on how old your kids are, how adventurous/coordinated you are, where you are, etc. and dissenting opinions that are presented respectfully should be allowed through, but anything domineering, belittling, or judging can be posted on their own blog. And since this is your blog, you’re the one who gets to decide what is not edifying to the group. As far as a name, I like the above reader’s suggestion of PassionBrides, but as you said, some of your readers and commenters are men…who hopefully know how to work a vacuum, so how about PassionateVacuumers?
“Intentional Wives” ~ As in being intentional about being a Christian wife, because nothing comes if we aren’t intentional each and every day in every decision.
Oh I like this one!
And I know I need that reminder to STAY intentional. Often times I strive to be intentional in many ways and do the best I can…but then I lose steam and I tend to take a back seat and become a “victim” to circumstances – whether it be in marriage or motherhood or relationships with others around me. But to have the reminder to be intentional in following God’s will for my life and my marriage – I really like this one!
This one gets my vote, too! “Intentional”. I want to be known for being an intentional Christian! And that applies to every aspect of my life, from dealing with rude public servants, to mediating with harsh family members, to commenting on anonymous blog comments. And especially to loving my own precious husband.
My wife was reading the comments to me on your vacation pst and I have to admit that even I was rolling my eyes at some of the men commenting. But something that I’ve noticed about many men is that they have an addiction to sex, even if it’s just with their own wife. It’s literally all they can think about. They are obsessed. So when you said that it’s ok not to have sex on a family vacation, I can understand why some men got upset. It’s sad though because these men aren’t considering their wives feelings or even their kids feelings. All they can think about is sex. I may get flack for this but I really think that these men need some counseling. If you can’t go a short time without sex then you may have a problem. If you can’t respect your wife enough to control yourself (especially around your kids) then please, from one guy to another, go get some help.
That was my husband’s take, too!
EXACTLY what my husband (also Dave) said when I explained the gist of the comments!
Hmmmm….I’m a higher drive wife and when we go on vacation, sex is off the menu, much to my dismay. though I book the 2 bedroom suite so we have our own room separated from the kiddos, hubby won’t have sex. We used to have sex in hotel rooms, even with the kiddos nearby. But now, it’s stopped.
After reading these comments, I will strive to be more gracious about it and treat it as the family vacation that it is. I’ll let hubby lead as to whether or not we have sex on vaca. Otherwise, I’ll enjoy those awesome hotel showers and being able to spread out on a king size bed. (We have a full at home.)
Sheila.
I think you do a good job at moderating. We cannot govern people’s morality or behavior and I think it’s important to remember that IF all people here are professed Christ followers then each needs to comment in light of God’s governance over their lives. IF those stopping in are not Christ followers, again, to the Christians, be salt and light, be ambassadors for Christ because it’s not about you after all, remember, you surrendered your “rights and entitlements”, galatians 2:20.
Please find a way to say what is on your heart ,keeping in mind building up and edifying your brother in the process. I think what is missing in the comment section is not anything Sheila can control. It’s called GRACE. Give others grace to do this life imperfectly. Be kind and loving, This isn’t about winning. We all want victory in our marriages, agreed? Pray for one another when you see comments, remember, hurting people hurt people. Walk in love dear friends. I need this reminder DAILY!
I want to chime in here. I think we may be missing part of the equation. Men love their wives and love to think of them as their lover (sex kitten); we married our wives and they are our ONE sexual partner forever and we love that proposition. We all would admit that sex on vacation and in a hotel is GOOD; for lots of reasons, we are relaxed, away from most of our stress and so on. If we are on vacation with our wife and family should we change this? To be lovingly affectionate toward our spouse and flirting with them is a great example for our kids, it will show our sons how to love their wives and our daughters how to expect to be loved not to mention it is fun, a turn on and communicates love and desire. I did not see that very often and I have tried to correct that wrong with my kids. I do agree there probably should be some guardrails on the conversations in front of the kids (know your audience). But this is the “fun playful” part of your relationship. Someone mentioned “can’t he just be a dad for a week?”, I think the opposite side of that coin is “can’t she be my lover and not a mom regularly?”. We all have roles that we play but we need to put on and take off the hats for each of these roles so that we have a balanced and exciting marriage. Ladies what if your husbands just wanted to talk sports and watch action movies and never talk to you or help out? Men what if your wife never made time for you and was always concerned about kid’s homework or the latest celebrity news? We need to ensure we are giving the first fruits to God but a close second is your spouse. I think we as spouses sometimes give left overs to each other which is unsatisfying period, not just in sex but in conversation or you name it.
I agree with one of the commenters saying she tries to do whatever they can to connect, because it makes her husband feel great (my wife does the same). It may not always work but it tells the husband (wife) that you are thinking about them and are interested and willing to make love, which on the basic level is saying I want you and is that not what we want after all. I think the biggest road block is we are “afraid” our kids will “catch” us having mommy daddy time. I am pretty sure little ones won’t understand and it can be put in simple terms for them (mommy and daddy are have special time, etc.) and teenagers already know no matter what we think and while they may cringe and say “get a room”; I have seen studies that it makes kids feel secure that their parents love each other and act on those feelings. In the article I have attached challenges our notions on the “super-secret privacy” we all tend to think is necessary. We need to make sure we provide a positive and unshameful view of our relationship with our spouse.
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/the-good-life-so-your-kids-caught-you-having-sex/
I can definitely agree that kids really respond to seeing parents love each other and act on those feelings (without being explicit). My daughter is in that tween “ewwwww, gross, they’re making out” stage but despite all that, I can tell by the way she says and acts that it makes her feel safe and comforted. She spent the first half of her life growing up seeing a marriage with an abuser and a victim, she’d have nightmares and was an awkward little girl. Since getting married and moving in with my (second) husband, she’s become an entirely different girl. Us holding hands, kissing etc, puts her at ease. She can see how much we care about each other, and it makes her feel safe and settled. We have had one embarassing moment that led us to putting a lock on our door (3am when we thought she was well and truly asleep) but thankfully she didn’t see anything as were under a doona. I think it damaged us way more than her. She yelled “gross!!!!” and ran off giggling. To be honest, I don’t know anyone (who is open about talking about sex) who hasn’t either walked in on their parents, or had their kids walk in on them or both. Obviously it’s not desirable (and I think in the article linked having sex out in a public room with your kid home (even if they are in their own room asleep) is too risky. But I don’t think kids get scarred for life by it. It can even help them be more careful about their choice of locations when they grow up and get married and have kids one day.
I agree with both of you!
I think that this blog is awesome and has taken a HUGE issue in marriages and Sheila is trying to fight it head on – it’s what God has charged her with doing.
There is a fine but definite line that comes into play between the roles of “dad” and “mom” and that of “husband” and “wife.” Being appropriate and flirtatious and respectful to each other – kisses and holding hands and hugs and things like that do actually combine BOTH roles into one for each person (mom and wife are one at this point and dad and husband are one: we NEED our kids to see a healthy loving relationship!)
BUT the line gets crossed when both husband and wife are not on the same page and one feels disrespected in front of the children.
I know couples who are completely open with little spanks in front of their kids…but I also know if my husband were to get too grabby, I would get uncomfortable and then feel a little violated in front of our sons – whereas in private, I’m all about being more open physically. It boils down to respect for your spouse. When both feel safe and loved and the communication of how much and where is appropriate needs to be had. Each couple is different.
Some couples are fine kissing in public – others aren’t. Being physical in front of the kids – on any level – needs to be within a comfort zone defined by respect.
Sheila’s blog is here to help women know that sex is needed on a healthy level for marriage.
Society has it screwed up on so many levels. But it’s a beautiful thing the way God defines it!
She gives helpful tools for women to not use it as weapon and to be open and meet the big need of their husbands – but it’s a two way street – open communication to feel safe and to be on the same page – be it on vacation or how comfortable you are on certain levels around the kids or in public – it’s not a perfect science. There’s no perfect answer Sheila can give for each and every couple…except to honor God in whatever you do.
Randall, from my point of view a wife is hardly relaxed and away from stress on a vacation.
Vacations are pretty stressful for most of the women I know. Several kids, packing/unpacking, cooking
etc. If we have a separate room with a door, I’m all for it. But sex is not the main event on a family vacation
in this household. My husband agrees with me on that. If we want a a vacation just for us where I can relax, then
we will go away alone. The thought of having sex with children in the bed next to us is a MAJOR turn off and it
is for my husband as well.
To have it feel safer, I think the readers will have to commit to responding out of love or not responding at all.
I like the name MarriageBuilders.
There is a saying that applies to this – “Don’t feed the trolls”.
Trolls are folks who say things just to get a reaction. They enjoy getting people upset, and will spend a huge amount of time posting comment after comment. They feed on controversy, and when anyone replied to what they say, it results in more of the same. On the other hand, if they are ignored, they get bored and go cause problems elsewhere.
I think Sheila does a good job moderating (and I know it’s a big job). Her readers can help by IGNORING obvious trouble makers.
Great point!!
Agree!
As has been said, a public forum brings out public comments. There are a lot of site that accommodate all sorts of agenda’s, but the site you have built should be about your agenda, which I also feel is a good God based agenda.
Some sites use moderators, I think that is great, but time consuming. If this site is to allow the majority of people that agree with your standards, to enjoy it and be built up from it, shouldn’t the majority do our part in moderating the few?
To confront the few controversial people will only feed into their controversial agenda, and so give them the platform they want, but to mark their dribble as such and then leave it alone will only anger them and after a while, hopefully drive them away.
Anytime you have to change, or go out of your way because of troublemakers, you allow them to win, and as long as they win, they won’t stop. The trick is to ignore them, so they see that it is not worth their time.
Good luck and please keep your good advice and comments coming.
I too have had a lot of difficulty when reading some of the sex post’s comments lately. I agree with / sympathize with the woman you quote in your post, although I am blessed with a husband who isn’t like that. I see and read things in the news, I have my own 43 years worth of experiences and observations of the men around me and I have already formed the opinion that many men (most?) are pigs but these particular post comments just confirmed it. I walked away feeling slimy.
I wish I knew what to say to you for how to make your comments safer but I don’t. I find many open comment sections become soapboxes for people (male and female) who are unwilling to move on their position and / or are unwilling (fearful??) to hear another view. I guess if you can identify these (usually) repeat people just don’t accept their comments unless you see them as helpful?
I really hope you can find the answers. I enjoy your blog and it offers a lot of needed advice and comfort to women (and some men)
I’m really not sure how the comment issue can be helped. Unless you were to disable comments entirely, allow commenters to have free reign, or closely monitor every comment, (none of those options being ideal) then it’s really out of your control. As much as people SHOULD have tact and sensitivity not everyone does and they will say whatever they want. You can’t change that and neither can you change how people react or interpret a comment. You can and should have a comment policy with guidelines people must abide by or else be blocked but even then people will disregard it.
I agree with much of what you write and I think it’s ridiculous the way people take you to task over things that should not be an issue. It’s sad that people don’t know how to (or refuse to) disagree in a respectful manner. But that’s not your fault and, unfortunately, not something you can change. :/
As for the name…I’m not a big fan of the idea but I’m also not against it. “EternalBrides” is what came to my mind. We’re brides because we’re married women but we, as a part of the church, are eternal brides to Christ. I think it encompasses both realities. 🙂
Hi All!! I normally don’t comment, but felt the need to comment on this post.
I find it sad that on a Christian blog people feel the need to get nasty towards their fellow Brothers and Sisters. Just because you disagree with someone else’s opinion on a matter doesn’t mean they are personally attacking you.
Now, I didn’t read the Camping post, but from what I hear of it, it sounds like Sheila had a good point. My husband of 5 years and I have 4 children ages 4, 3, 2, 1, and Baby #5 will arrive sometime in January. As you may imagine, finding time to ourselves is quite a feat!! We can’t go out on dates once a week, or even once a month (this last April it was a full year since we had had a date night!!) So I usually have all the kids in bed at 7. We did go on a family vacation this past June, and there was no sex for us while sharing a room with the four kiddos…lol. My husband is like every other man, who needs sex on a regular basis, and yes, sometimes I feel like sex is the only thing on his mind sometimes. My opinion is this: Men need sex. Women should give their men the sex they need. But if a woman is having health issues or is so exhausted she’s falling asleep standing up, the man should be able to give his wife a rest. And, the six weeks after birth is a guideline…you don’t HAVE to wait 6 weeks, but you better be sure the woman’s body is absolutely ready for it or you could cause alot of harm.
EVERYONE has a different opinion on all subjects, and not everyone is going to agree on a subject. And Sheila, you are a wonderfully caring woman who wants to help everyone out, and hurt no one, but that’s just not going to happen. People on both sides of an argument are going to get hurt no matter how nice a person talks. I personally wouldn’t change a thing about this blog. There are also people who are professional trollers who go around starting nasty arguments just for fun.
1) I like the idea of posting guidelines for all commenters, with a statement that comments which violate the guidelines will be removed. I think it is important that you delete those comments which are damaging to your mission. Also, I think it would be helpful to put a word-count limit on comments.
2) Reading your blog has inspired me to try to fight for the best possible marriage and to help anyone I can to have the best possible marriage, so I would suggest Marriage Warriors.
I like “Marriage Warriors” too!
Too bad warrior wives is taken! Also, I don’t find the idea of a title for readers cliquish. I think it is a cute way to address others who may have experiences and ideas to share with one another.
Thank you for blogging and encouraging Godly, healthy marriages. I think you are on the right path to moderating comments. If it’s not beneficial, no need to post it. (Eph 4:29)
As for a nickname… how about SmartWives and SmartHusbands? Or, a take on the blog title: WivesOfHonor and HH’s – HonorableHusbands.
I agree that you have to delete comments that don’t support your mission. How about the name Marriage Warriors? Because not all of your readers are females and we are warriors fighting for strong marriages.
I think one of the best ways you can make the comment section a safer place is to delete all comments that attempt to address a specific person’s specific situation based on a couple sentences. Chances are extremely good that the commenter doesn’t know the person they are addressing (and if they do, they should not be talking to them in a public forum), therefore they are not qualified to attempt to help the specific situation.
What I suggest is to allow through those comments that a) address problem areas very generally, allowing for a MYRIAD of differences in individual marriages; b) speak ONLY from their personal situations in such a way that indicates they do not expect everyone to do things their way; c) are only encouraging with NO “constructive criticism.”
As several have already said, this is your blog and you are allowed to set the boundaries you feel best fulfill your God-given mission. Moderate comments prayerfully and considerately and you will only improve the already fantastic job you are doing.
As Ellen said above, post a page of comment guidelines and delete those comments that do not fulfill your mission. I would also suggest you include a section encouraging your readers to filter everything (your post and all the comments) through their particular situation. Not everything you say and certainly not all the comments are goin to apply to everyone. Using the camping post as an example, all couples need a certain amount of intimate “fun time” to maintain their connection with one another — that amount will be more for some couples, less for others. Just as some babies walk by 9 months and others don’t walk until 18 months, no one should freak out because we aren’t carbon copies of each other. Use some common sense and personal filter to capture the spirit of what is trying to be said. Don’t get caught up in the specifics! (I apologize if that’s a little forthright but my biggest irritation with the average person is when they forget, or refuse to see, how UNIQUE God made each one of us. And that uniqueness is compounded by 2 people becoming married to each other. Some are evangelists and some are servants — some marriages are extremely physical and some are more emotional. That’s ok!!! It takes all kinds to make an exciting world!
I suggest a name that is not cliquish, cliche, or discouraging, but instead encourages us toward an ideal to strive for. Possibly even one that emphasizes your primary audience (which is women). I also see marriage as something that needs to be fought for; possibly Modern Jaels?
People just aren’t going to agree about everything. You know I love your blog, and you know I fairly strongly disagree with something you recently wrote. I feel that people can disagree without being aggressive, and that should be everyone’s goal. I also believe it’s important to try to believe the best about people, rather than jumping to the worst possible conclusion. That would help, too!
I was just at Outback Steakhouse yesterday and was reminded that in Australia, they say Sheilas for women and Blokes for men. What if we said Sheilas & Blokes as sort of a play on words for your blog readers/supporters? 🙂
Sidenote: I also asked my husband’s perspective about the camping/traveling drama. He agreed that sex on a vacation would be fairly important to him, but said he would take that into account when planning the vacation – if you absolutely must have sex for it to be a vacation, then you need to plan on adjoining rooms or an activity for the kids with someone else, etc. He also said, like you did, Sheila, that if a couple has a healthy sex life, not having sex for 3 days (or whatever) on a little vacation wouldn’t be the end of the world, even if he’d be a little disappointed. If sex is 75% of the joy in a vacation for some men, they need to plan ahead and talk about it before hand! That just makes sense to me.
I’m wondering when thinking about it if half the problem is simply people having different views of what a “vacation” is. If for someone all their vacations are 2-3 days away, it’s very different when compared to someone whose vacations are general school holidays where it’s a full 2 weeks away or (up 6+ weeks in summer). A simple misunderstanding between people of what constitutes a “vacation” could have been the reason for so many people having vehemently opposing points of view on the topic. If a couple has a healthy sex life, going without sex for three days is nothing, but if they are on vacation for 6 weeks, going without that long would be quite unhealthy.
I’ve actually never had a true family vacation as an adult. My first husband and I could never afford it, and my second husband and I haven’t had the opportunity yet (due to several issues he had to cancel at the last minute for the July school holidays). But as a kid, my mother in particular loved big holidays so we’d go away for the full two weeks of school holidays if we went away, often much longer over the christmas holidays, and two huge holidays that were two months long when my dad got long service leave 15 and 20 years ago. Compare that to a family whose regular holidays are just getting away for a weekend, it leads to some very understandly different views on whether it’s healthy or unhealthy to skip sex on vacation.
I think it may help all readers of comments to think about how they may define things differently from other commenters which may in turn help them write kinder/more thoughtful comments.
Megan I totally agree with your hubby – three days without sex is not the end of the world (I could probably, just, handle that as a regular thing even), but 2 weeks would certainly be tough, and 2 months like my parents did a few times would be so unhealthy.
I like the idea of sitting down and working out the priorities couples have for any activity (especially vacations), working out a solution that meets both their needs and wants as much as is possible.
That’s a good point. I thought I remembered Sheila mentioning a long-weekend type trip in her original post, but now I’m realizing I could be mistaken about that. Honestly a 6-week vacation is so far off of our radar at this point that it wouldn’t have crossed either my husband’s or my mind. Clearly, a couple would have to get pretty creative about intimacy on a trip that long sleeping in the same room as kids.
I agree with some of the previous commenters that some women are going to be upset no matter what is in the comments. Sheila can’t protect everyone from that. If comments upset you, don’t read them. If a particular commenter upsets you, skip over their comments. If the comments start going in a direction that upsets you, stop reading. We all have to take care of ourselves a little bit and not expect Sheila to protect us from all the meanies. Comments about being sexually available to your husband might be encouraging to women married to a high drive husband, but frustrating and alienating to a woman married to a low drive husband. Everyone has a different situation, and women in difficult marriages are probably going to be upset by a lot of different things and there’s not much Sheila can do about that.
Sheila, it’s your blog so you can do whatever you want with the comments. I think you do a good job of allowing various opinions but filtering out the excessively nasty, vulgar or hurtful stuff. Beyond that it’s your call.
I don’t get the name thing. Who gets to be a HotMama (or whatever the name ends up being)? People who comment regularly? People who agree with Sheila? Do you have to be approved as an official HotMama or does it refer to all readers? Will it say “Certified HotMama” on your comments? I don’t get the point of it.
It’s just a cute way bloggers use to address readers I think. Like instead of “all you readers please give some tips to this struggling wife” it would be “all you hot mamas give…” It just creates a sense of belonging and community among anyone who participates.
First comment here, although I’ve been reading many months. Sheila, I so appreciate your wisdom *and* your humility, even when I don’t share your viewpoint. For example, I hold to a more conservative view of biblical submission, but I think that calls for firmer boundaries in the blogosphere. Ephesians 5 does not say, “Wives, submit yourselves to every Internet creep who thinks you’re doing it wrong.” So, how can you make your comments section safe for all concerned?
If anyone instructs or commands, resorts to legalism, or otherwise usurps a husband’s God-given authority in order to “comment” on the behavior of any woman not his wife (or “all women”, smh, rme), that comment should be deleted.
That said, I get it: A woman’s stress, illness, exhaustion, or need to recuperate does not mitigate her husband’s needs for bonding, respite, restoration, and confidence -boosting or his physiology. It would be lovely to see people thinking along the lines of meeting both sets of needs.
Both parties have needs. Since when is it Christ-like to leave them all unmet? I bet a lot of people would feel safe here if comments
I think this is such a great comment.
Hello-
I am new to this blog, only last week! I started reading the posts because I am too a wife and mommy to 2 year old twin boys. I love my family so much- but I also struggle with my new role as wife and mother sometimes. One thing I really enjoy reading is the insight from the men. I get so wrapped up in what I think it right, or how I feel things should be done. Sometimes I forget how my husband thinks and feels about these same issues. I want to be more sensitive to his thoughts and opinions. I appreciate all the comments made by other husbands because it helps me understand what he may be feeling. I feel like we all need to keep an open mind when it comes to answering a post. Some people will say things we don’t like or agree with, but that doesn’t mean they are wrong. Everyone thinks different and they have that right. As long as people are posting respectfully than they have their right to voice their opinion. As a reader we also need to respect what we are reading and not take comments personally. I believe this page is set to only help out couples.
My husband also calls me his bride, and it makes me blush every time! It feels like a much more loving way to describe me. So maybe a name like
WarriorBrides???
I have also had “trolls,” as Paul Byerly called them. Writing a blog and dealing with commenters, somehow you just feel when the thread takes a turn from disagreement and debate to argument or attack. It’s typically when a commenter starts saying the same thing over and over, begins to pick apart someone else’s argument piece by piece, or treads into the namecalling waters. I can almost feel the exposed nerves vibrating as people try to reiterate their position.
A couple of tips I’ve learned for myself that I’m happy to share: (1) If a post really upsets you, bookmark the page, walk away, and return to comment later. Taking a breather can help you better measure your words when you do respond. (2) If it’s not a theological salvation issue, see if you can share your thoughts in a “what I’ve learned” or “how I feel” or “what works for us” way. People pay more attention to others’ personal testimonies than to black-and-white “Thou Shalt” statements.
I don’t discount disagreement and debate (and especially conversation). A lot of what I know has come from talking to people with a different perspective than mine! But I eventually decided that it is, after all, my blog, and if I feel a comment thread is getting out of hand, it can be the best option for everybody to simply stop letting further comments (on that particular issue) through. Best wishes, Sheila!
There is really no such thing as a completely safe place on the internet, though I value your desire to make this site as safe as possible. Screening comments before they appear, so that you can stop the most ‘obnoxious’ ones from getting through, and cutting off debates that are derailing into harmful territory is all you can do.
As far as a name, while it seems that most commenters on here are female, there are also some men who contribute valuable ideas and encouragement. I would like the name to be inclusive of them, and not something that would make them feel like they weren’t wanted or appreciated. (not hotmamas, for that reason too!).
Marriage Masters? (Not that we’re all Masters at this, but it’s the goal, right?)
Marriage Mavens?
Marriage Muddlers? (true for me, this week at least!)
Sheila,
By all means delete comments that are disrespectful or just people venting without adding constructive commentary.
You are VERY balanced and VERY tollerant (maybe too tollerant) of people disagreeing with you.
Please protect your blog so that if my wife ever would be willing to read it she will not find it distasteful.
Actually, that’s a good point. I think a lot of women who are very negative towards sex would find a lot of the comments lately really off-putting, and trying to find that balance is something I’ve been praying about a lot.
Name: “Beauty For Ashes”.
To console those who mourn in Zion, To give them beauty for ashes, The oil of joy for mourning, The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; That they may be called trees of righteousness, The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.” (Isaiah 61:3 NKJV)
As wives, we have all probably at one time or another, felt unloved, disrespected, etc in our marriages whether intentional or not. I believe no matter what state our marriages is in, that we must remember what God’s Word says about his daughters.
I happened to be a wife who has a husband who is 8 months into recovery from sexual addictions. As a wife in this recovery with my husband (and it is my choice to be still in this marriage) it is one of the hardest things I have ever walked through.
I attended Women in The Battle Workshop after my husband had attended “Every Man’s Battle”. They taught us that no matter what we have been through, that another person cannot define who we are by their actions. We have to believe what God says, He is knew us before we were born and knew what kind of life we would endure.
Before attending this workshop, I was feeling defeated, ugly, depressed, unloved, disrespected, etc. You name it, I owned that feeling because of what my husband had done to me because of his addiction. After attending, I knew that I became a “WOW”, (Women of Worth) who has been Crowned with Forgiveness and exchanged my Ashes for Beauty.
Maybe the name should be marriage Advocates
There is no reason why a blogger has to accept poisonous, destructive comments, comments that are posted solely for the purpose of getting a negative reaction, or comments that are so far off topic they are clearly promoting something at odds with the purpose of the blog (as opposed to normal disagreement). Some people love that kind of stuff, and if they do, they can go over to the Huffington Post, which actually rewards trolls by labeling them super users. But over here, it’s your blog, and you make the rules.
I tend to comment on posts because I want to let the author of the post know what I think, not to inspire chit chat in the comments section. I don’t want to read the comments others have left. And I don’t check the box to notify me of follow up comments by email. One thing I have learned over the years is that there are very, very few people who have opinions that matter to me. The rest of the world, I just don’t worry about their opinions.
In order to have more physical intimacy in my marriage, it truly helps that my husband also strives for more emotional intimacy with me. That includes where I am comfortable having sex and where I am not. I am aware that he is up for sex any time, any where. He realizes that I don’t want to be heard or discovered during sex. We do have a lock on the bedroom door. And the trailer is great for sex if no one is along with us for the trip. We just returned from a 2 week vacation using condos, not the trailer. And sex didn’t happen very much. Why? Because we had the grandson (age 7) along for the ride and he was feeling needy and ended up in our bedroom more nights than not. Generally before we had been in bed long. So unless we could hear him snoring, nothing was going to bounce the mattress!
As for our name as a community? I would think that we are all intimacy seekers, in all three ways you mention. So Intimacy Seekers would be my suggestion.
Sheila,
The day I stumbled across this blog in Pinterest was the best day ever. I was engaged to be married and very troubled over both my sexual past and my fiance’s past. Your blog helped me realize that our past doesn’t have to weigh me down and come between the two of us. Your blog made me realize that our wedding night and honeymoon shouldn’t have all these worldly expectations places upon them. You made me realize that the most important component of sex with my husband is the intimacy between us and how that is acted out physically, emotionally, and spiritually. I am so grateful for your blog and love that it is a platform for Christian women to honestly discuss sex and intimacy in marriage without all the worldly stigmas/expectations or the lack of talk about it that I found in my church growing up – making sex this unknown thing, which can lead to either exploring before you’re ready or avoiding it in your marriage except as a sense of “duty.” Please do not be discouraged, which I know is hard at times, but your blog has really been a help to me and has definitely allowed me to start my marriage off with healthy sexual expectations and needs. Thank you!!!! And God bless you!!!
You can create a community of people that can scour for offensive comments and can help to remove them.
They can alert you to the comment and why it is offensive.
Freedom does not mean you get to oppress others, freedom means we all have the opportunity to live freely, so those people that are using this forum as an opportunity to berate others need to be shut down.
Thank you for deciding to do this.
I like the names:
Vacuumers
Goodwifes
Knots, Knotters (bc we have all tied the knot)
Better Halves
I’ll keep thinking 🙂
Sheila, posts like these make me realize what a hard job you must have!! Your mission makes you a target by the world’s society for sure – a world full of hatred, divorces, sin, etc. Keep being a shining light to help women all over with their marriages and walks with God. You go girl!! 🙂
Blessings
Fellow femme fatales, fair ladies, Sheila’s shawties, booty beauties
I don’t know what I can add that hasn’t already been said. But I completely agree that it’s your blog, Sheila, and you should run it in a way that makes you feel comfortable & is compatible with your mission.
As for a name, I like a lot of what has already been said. I thought of Passionistas, 31s (referencing Proverbs and your book), Lovely Ladies (Phil 4:8)…
Spicy Wifey
the other question, I have no idea. I find nearly all sites have horrible comment threads.
With you asking for name suggestions, Song of Songs comes to mind. Most that come to your site are brides & the bride in this book is referred to as “beloved”. What do you think of “Beloved Brides” ?
Sheila’s Cheeps, Sheila’s Chick-stahs, Va-va-va-voomers, Sheila’s Sugarpies, Sheila’s Sweet Cherie’s
So I can’t remember if I’ve posted or not but oh well… I don’t have an answer to #1. Sorry. When I have read comments I haven’t thought they were too bad but I can see how the may be viewed that way.
As for #2, what about Frisky Followers? Frisky is fairly obvious, and Followers of this blog and Jesus Christ. 🙂
There are always going to be nasty people, that’s just what happens when you don’t see people face to face. I think there could be a “3 strikes and you’re out” policy I.e. if your comments are nasty or disrespectful you’ll be permanently banned from commenting after getting 2 warnings. I think a warning is fair, because some people just don’t realize that their comments are hurtful.
As for a name… Pleasure Seekers?!? Lol Too raunchy probably. Marriage Builders? Or how about “Solomon’s Beloved” in honor of Songs of Solomon, which is the ultimate guide to sex in the bible?
To help your community feel safer you could have a posted set of guidelines for comments and a statement that anyone who violates will be banned. Also have someone review posts to make sure they are adhering to those guidelines before the post is approved.
I like the name Venus Vixens….. as in women are from Venus? Vixens is playfully sexy, but not too much…
Your thoughts?
1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength . . . and your neighbor as yourself. What’s in the heart comes out in our words. When people’s hearts are walking in fellowship with God and our thoughts are for the best of others, then comments will be guarded and well thought through.
2. Ladies of Character
I haven’t read all the comments, so maybe this has already been suggested, but a simple name that does relate to ‘Sheila’ would be ‘She.’ A male commenter would obviously be a “He.” Maybe it’s too simple?
W.O.W. Gals
Women of Wonder…wonderfully made, wonderfully being, doing, amazing, etc.
Have a great week. Keep doing what you are doing.
Your blog is about more than just sex, so I don’t like purely a sex-related name. I like the idea of a name that identifies with the name of the blog, like Vacuum Wives or Vacuum Women. We could be VW’s for short! 🙂
They seriously think you don’t stress sex enough?! Really?! My husband couldn’t be happier that I read your blog because you are almost ALWAYS telling us to have sex with our husband!
If those certain men who have their own agenda are often posting inflammatory things and derailing the comments, why not just block them? This is your blog, not theirs. It’s geared toward women, not men. If they aren’t helping your blogging goals to help women, and are harming instead, get rid of them! Maybe it’s good etiquette in the blog world to let everything through, but fulfilling the purpose GOD has laid on your heart is more important than the blogging world’s opinion.
If men want to be here, they need to realize that they are the minority, this blog is not geared toward them, and they’re not going to agree with everything. So if they have a problem, they should leave, not try to change a blog that’s geared toward WOMEN! I have realized that if I’m reading a blog that consistently gets my ire up, and that I always disagree with, I need to just leave. My time and energy are precious. Why waste them trying to convince everyone in the world to convert to my opinions?!
As for the rest of the comments, (I believe those certain men’s responses are a category all of their own) I think there will always be two extremes to every issue, and thus, people on each side are trying to “balance” everyone on the other side. That’s normal. But as we comment, we need to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. And realize that it’s not our job to make everyone think the same as us!
I don’t have an idea on how to make it safer but I did have an idea for a name. Since marriage is supposed to be for life I thought we could be called 4lifers.
My husband always calls me his “wifey,” “beautiful wifey” and the like, while I call him my “husby”. We’re all wives reading this blog, are we not? So if we could think of an appropriate adjective to place next to “wifey,” I think we’d have a cute name to use for general use. “Wonderful Wifeys” “Lovely Wifeys” …etc.
As for the comments on your blog, Sheila…sometimes it is easier and sometimes harder to read certain comments, but overall I appreciate the broad spectrum of comments because it opens my eyes to the depth and breadth of how people operate in their marriages. And even more importantly, we are given such an incredible opportunity to pray for specific people, by their name even! I once read two extremely sad comments by two women who were really hurting in similar areas, and they attacked your blog post on different ways to flirt with your husband. I was completely in tears by the times I finished reading their back-and-forth comments to each other. However, I didn’t regret reading their comments, because it showed how much they needed a true understanding of God’s love for them, and it gave me an opportunity to pray for them right then. I didn’t feel qualified to comment back to them, because their issues were so complex and entrenched in past hurts, but I know Someone who knows them way better than they know themselves, and our God can bring healing and restoration to their lives and their marriages.
Not everyone here is married…or even engaged (I’m one of them). Some just come for a Christian perspective in a messed-up world.
2. How about Precious Jewels? Proverbs 31:10 says “A good wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels”
I didn’t have time to read all the comments so I’m not sure if you had a name or not. I noticed that this blog is read by both men and women so I thought the name “Marriage Makers” could be an option. That way both genders are included and the name means that marriage is something we need to work together for and on continually in order for it to be great.
I enjoy reading your blog and i thought you should know that with everyone being different no one is going to agree 100% of the time. Keep up the good work!!!
As usual, reluctant to comment because there are already so many comments, but you asked.
I’ve heard a blog described as a dinner party. You’ve invited us to your house and sparked the conversation, but where the conversation goes from there is not entirely up to you. Because it is a conversation that is going on apart from your dinner party (people would be talking about it at my house or someone else’s house as well, it would just look different, with a different mix of people, on a different day). People will absolutely have different ideas. The point (for most people) is to discuss and grow.
Of course, we cut off drunk uncle Joe when he gets out of hand at our dinner party. And we gently (or sometimes not so gently!) change the direction of the conversation when Aunt Jodie goes on and on about how horrible her husband is because that is not uplifting, helpful, or what we came to dinner to hear. As the host, it is perfectly acceptable (and to some extent, expected?) for you to deal with unruly guests. It is YOUR dinner party. YOU get to choose what discussion is appropriate. Although there will always disagreements of where to draw the line (a party for middle school aged boys looks much different than a party for toddlers), it is perfectly okay to say for example, “Let’s not use middle school potty humor in front of a group of toddlers.” That’s not what we’re doing at this party.
That said, one of the reasons I don’t wade too deeply into the comments on many blogs is not the diverse opinions, but the “in-crowd” of (some) folks (women, by the way) who remind me a lot of Aunt Jodie, forgetting that it is your dinner party and not theirs. The tone you set is great, but the tone of the comments is not something I want to be exposed to at times. But, I’m an introvert. So I’d likely rather talk to you over tea with a few friends than come to a big ol’ dinner party with lots of folks anyway. 😉
Not helpful perhaps. But you know your guests. You know what type of party you want to host and what type of party your guests are expecting. And sometimes you just have to stop inviting Uncle Joe or Aunt Jodie because they’re not who you want to hang out with on a regular basis. Or at least, watch closely to see if they’re taking their meds. 😉
And pray. God will help you sort it out. Love to you and love to your ministry, Sheila! Regardless of your guests at any given time, I come to your dinner party because you’ve invited me and because I enjoy being around you. I can ignore the other guests if I choose.
Totally love that imagery! That’s exactly how my husband described my blog to me when we were walking and talking about this last night.
Sheila,
Thank you so much for the very difficult work you do to keep this ministry alive as a resource for married couples who are striving for the kind of marriage God envisioned for us. This blog is a true blessing! I don’t often comment on your posts, mostly because it seems that someone has already said what I was thinking before I got around to it. But I’m taking the time now because I think this is a really important issue.
I think we would all agree that marriage is under constant attack these days. The devil either wants to break up marriages or make miserable those of us who choose to stay committed. And he’s so subtle about it! From the commenters who promote submission to the point of subservience (I’m not talking about anyone specific here) to those who are just downright nasty to one another (and boy have I read a lot of those recently), there are many opportunities for people who are struggling to feel like they’ve been kicked in the teeth after reading some comments. I love what Kendra said above, that a blog is like a dinner party. I would also liken it to a study class I led at my church that also came under attack several different times. I handled that a couple of different ways that I think might be appropriate here.
1. I prayed like crazy for God’s protection against the devil’s attacks–all through the week, and especially the morning before church, I prayed for the right words, and I prayed specifically for the people the devil was using to cause trouble. It took some time, but two of the people eventually stopped coming to the class and the third mellowed quite a bit.
2. I immediately let one class member know that being nasty and disrespectful wouldn’t be tolerated, right in front of the rest of the group. This instance was not the first where he made nasty remarks, and I felt it was extremely important not only to let him know what he’d said was inappropriate, but also to do it in a way that made him accountable (by doing it in everyone else’s hearing).
I’m certain you’re already praying, and I’m sure the thought of “baby sitting” the comments section of your blog probably isn’t that appealing. Just wanted to let you know what worked for me in a much less public setting. 🙂 I’ll keep reading the blog whether you decide to filter out the harmful comments, or simply let the commenter know right away that this is a Christian forum where we treat each other with respect and kindness. In the end I think God will lead you to the best decision, and I’ll be praying to that end.
As far as a name is concerned, I like Helpmeets, mostly because that is what both men and women should be striving to be in marriage.
Thank you again for giving of yourself to help those of us who struggle in our marriages. After nearly 15 years of marriage and lots of struggles (and very little sex), I found your blog one day and realized I’d been doing it all wrong. There are things my husband needs to work on, sure, but I had no idea of how important sex could be to a marriage. Thank you for helping this girl who grew up with parents who only co-existed to understand a little more of what marriage should be like. God bless you and your ministry!
1- How about holding all comments on a new post 24hours? By the time things get posted idle antagonists will have moved on and most of the comments that get left will be from people who really have some they feel will add to your post, either agreeing or disagreeing.
2-Philomenas? It means lover of strength in Greek. Or just Philos, lovers? Readers are here seeking ways to be more loving, and while the eros side of things is part of it, the blog goes beyond that. Not only do we want to love our spouses better, we want to love God better.
I’m thinking that perhaps you could use someone trustworthy, someone who truly understands your mission here on your blog, to preview the comments before they’re posted. Maybe instead of you having to review what everyone is saying, along with clarifying your viewpoint or offering some gentle correction for the less than polite, there’s some other helper who could step up at times to do that. Perhaps us loyal readers should speak up a little more at times, gently and with Scripture if needed.
Name suggestions that are non-gender, not role specific-
TLHAVers (initials of blog)
Varooomers (cute name for vacuums)
Committed Ones
When people are hurting they will think, speak, and act negatively. Any ugly comments definitely stem from their unhappiness. I don’t read the comments because a lot of them show the author’s ignorance to life and the way that God has for us. Last week I read a blog entry by a woman who had been married for ONE year, and the blog entry was entitled, “My husband is NOT my soulmate.” I was depressed and discouraged for several days- not so much because of the blog entry but because of the comments. I couldn’t believe that NO ONE thought to say that GOD directs our paths if we merely trust in Him, and that our spouse didn’t come into our paths by accident if we were fully following the Lord. My faith wavered for a few days, thinking that God had no say in who I married at all (which is so not true), all because of the comments! My lesson? I don’t read them! It’s like facebook. Unwise people say unwise things, and reading those things caused me hurt so I deleted my account. The Bible says to think on things LOVELY and PURE and TRUE. If a comment doesn’t follow those guidelines, then they should be deleted. You are a very wise woman!!! I have been married for 8 wonderful years, and I am gleaning so much from your blog. Why settle for a good marriage when you can have a GREAT marriage??? I truly believe my marriage has been better because of your blog. Thank you so much for your ministry. God has blessed you with wisdom beyond years. Keep the comments short and sweet with a word maximum (though this one has been long).
Name: How about Marriage Builders? Proverbs 24:3 and 4 say that through wisdom a house is built, but the same can be said about marriage. Through wisdom a marriage is strengthened, for sure.
Ashley I can totally understand why you were discouraged! I think a lot of people misunderstand the concept of soulmates. We don’t get married because we meet our soulmate. It’s the total opposite. God has instructed us to make the person that we marry become our soulmate. It would be good if more people realised that and appreciated the spouse they have in their life instead of looking for some “soulmate” with someone else. Love is a choice, Love is action, not just some feeling.
I think I too would have been very disappointed if I had read a blog entry entitled “my husband is not my soulmate”.
Before you judge that blog, which I also happened to read this week, perhaps you should read it…the title is somewhat misleading/provoking, but the article itself is fantastic. I happen to agree with the author on a number of counts, especially as someone who’s had to deal with remarriage, this woman has great insight and a wonderful perspective on what’s become a damaging, pervasive cultural belief NOT rooted in Biblical truth. I’m not saying (and neither is the author, I don’t believe) that God doesn’t/shouldn’t lead in the decision of who we marry, but I agree with the blogger that it’s not as pivotal (one person we are “meant” to marry, a perfect “soul-mate” ) as we North Americans make it out to be. That’s a romanticized, pop-culture notion that is neither Biblical nor held by Christians in other cultures. (Just because it’s a widely held CULTURAL belief, doesn’t make it true or Biblical.)
Check out the article here: http://theartinlife.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/my-husband-is-not-my-soul-mate/
How about Marriage Lovers…. It’s non-gender specific, a play on words and addresses what this blog is all about; people committed to the sanctity of marriage both in and out of the bedroom.
God bless you Sheila! Don’t let the attention seekers get you down. If the rest of us all agree to ignore their foolish comments, we will deny them their desire to upset the masses.
This post brings to mind Hebrews 10:24-25, “And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.”
The purpose of “assembling ourselves together”, even in the comments section of a blog, needs to be to “stir up love and good works” and to “exhort one another”.
Perhaps you need to establish some permanently displayed “Rules of Etiquette” vs. stating “Speak Your Mind” in the Post Comments section??? (In a way, I think the phrase ‘Speak Your Mind’ encourages contention… kind of like saying ‘bring it on’) My mom used to say “If you can’t say something nicely, don’t say anything at all.” There is a respectful way to say anything. Perhaps a post, or series of posts, dedicated to “How to Disagree in a God-Honoring Manner” would be beneficial? (…also an issue in so many marriages – I’m sure you’ve heard how couples talk to each other these days – at the grocery store, in the parking lot, etc. It’s so disrespectful, so disheartening.) It seems there’s a huge need out there to understand what the Bible has to say about how we are commanded to use our tongues.
I’m not very cutesy-creative when it comes to thinking of names, but I’ll try… in reference to Hebrews 10:24-25 and as a gentle reminder, you could refer to your commenters as “Exhorters”, or “Encouragers”, or “Workers of Good” OR, the synonyms of ‘stir’ are: arouse, rouse, fire, kindle, inspire, stimulate, excite, awaken, quicken; waken. You could play off the word arouse somehow if you want to go that route… “Love Arousers”, or “Love Awakeners”, or how about just “Lovers”.
Anyway, blessings to you, Sheila, as you push toward creating a community of encouragement!
The best webpage dealing with sexual health issues is vaginapagina. It works so well because it is on livejournal, so people who comment have to have an account. They call themselves a “safe space”, and the rules of behaviour are clearly set out in the FAQ. Violators of the “safe space” paradigm set up there can be banned. If someone without an account has a legitimate question, they can email a moderator. I think there’s anywhere from 3 to 6 mods at any given time, and a community of people who know the safe space rules and are quite adamant about supporting and self policing violators. Please be aware this is most certainly NOT a Christian community, but the health information is valid.
Anyway, my point with ^ : You are ONE person, and the internet is vast and full of trolls. Do not feel bad because some inappropriate comments got through. Even with all the safeguards that VP has, the odd troll manages to roll up and make people very, very uncomfortable.
Hi there Sheila, I am on of your readers who chooses not to read a lot of the comments because I’ve been through a marriage with infidelity, porn use, drug use, alcohol abuse, and lies. When I see women being attacked by other readers, it’s just too painful. I agree with all of your articles and I appreciate them for their focus on God, marriage, and life balance :).
1. How can we make this more of a safe community, with a great comment section?
Is there any way for your blog to automatically moderate posts with certain negative key words? Ones that are not disclosed so that the clever people can’t get around the rules? I am very baffled that people go out of their way to criticize others. I guess I just don’t have the time or conscience for that. *Please don’t anybody criticize me for saying this*
2. What name should we use for all of us?
How about MarriageWarriors ? We are all hear (hopefully) to fight for marriages, whether ours or other readers.
Thank you for your boldness! You rock!!!
grrr I spelled here wrong…
Gabi – I feel your pain!
I’ve been through quite a bit in my marriage as well along almost every point you listed! It’s amazing though, how a lot of prayer and fighting FOR the marriage under God’s direction can help rebuild a lot of trust lost…I pray you keep going & keep leaning on God!
Sheila – this blog is so uplifting and encouraging & if even you say something that I don’t 100% agree with, I don’t feel inclined at all to sit at my computer and get on my comment “soap box” and preach to others. Maybe along the same lines as the “Key words” approach Gabi has, could you put a blanket disclaimer saying that any type of profanity, ungodly disrespect and/or misconduct towards another reader/commentee will not be tolerated in any manner? Is there a way you can bump or block someone specifically from leaving comments?
I agree when the Bible says the tongue is a weapon and emails/texting/comments on blogs are all a form of using your tongue. Maybe with an official disclaimer at the top of each comment section, people will be more inclined to be encouraging in what they write instead of tearing others down.
This isn’t a fun situation! I pray God gives you direction & His godly insight on how to handle this.
Let me rephrase that: the tongue CAN be a weapon…it’s a tool that can either build up or tear down.
I’m not a blogger so I’m unsure as to any ideas to keep the comments safe. My only thought is to continually be mindful and aware and trust God for guidance. Your book and blog have been so helpful to me in my journey towards marriage and in these first three months of marriage 🙂 so thank-you. Also, the only idea I have for a name for your readers is PilgrimWives to represent the journey that we are all on. The only problem would be that if men read this or unmarried women, then it might feel non-inclusive. So maybe you can spin off of it. And if its already been suggested, I apologize as I couldn’t get the comments to load 🙂
Merry Ladies? Loving Ladies? Wonderful Wives? I find your blog very encouraging and most of the comments are okay. Sometimes I take a break from reading, because of all the heartbreaking issues other people are having in their marriages. I can’t imagine how you can read it every day!
As for mean commenters, maybe there should be a short reminder by the comment button to be loving and respectful in our replies to each other.
Very insightful move, Sheila! 🙂 So glad you are reclaiming your blog & God-given vision – may you continue to seek & receive His direction while seeing the fruit of healthier marriages growing from your work!
As for a name for the group…what about “Desperados”? I know it’s a bit different than most suggestions, but it came to mind immediately. People who want to heal or strengthen marriages are DESPERATE for guidance/answers…you are definitely providing thought-provoking & practical info to that end! The definition of a “Desperado” is “a bold, reckless (criminal or outlaw), especially in the early days of the American West.” I would suggest: replace the negative (criminal or outlaw) words in that definition with something like “adventurer” or “explorer” because any of us willing to step outside our comfort zones on issues in our marriages, trusting God’s nudging, NEED to be relational, Biblically-rooted DESPERADOS! 🙂
As a reader coming from a broken home, I think it would be very helpful for you to screen comments that could be damaging. I was brought up in a bad situation, to the point of fearing men, marriage and sex, and seeing nothing good about any of it. I had no positive role models of a good, healthy relationship, and it left me with a bad view of men in general and very wary of relationships. In the months since I found your blog, via Pinterest, I have received a great blessing from your explanations, views and perspective. You’ve helped me see that maybe not all guys are bad guys. That some people do have happy, healthy marriages.
However, I can relate to the perspective of the lady you quoted saying ‘men are pigs…all men are like that’. It’s hard enough reading the stories from sisters-in-Christ who are in a bad situation, but then to had the rare male commenter jump in, reinforcing or validating the bad, makes things worse. Especially with how few men read/comment on this blog.
So yes! I think you should, and I would greatly appreciate, you censoring that comments. As the saying goes, “If you can’t say somthing nice, don’t say nothing at all.” If they aren’t going to be respectful and contribute to your ministry, they don’t belong here. The internet isn’t mandatory. They don’t have to read or share your blog if they don’t like it. (And why people choose to continue reading – and then take to the comments to trash the article and it’s audience/author – when they clearly don’t agree, is beyond me! If you don’t agree, close the tab, move on!)
So keep up the great ministry! Don’t let anyone pressure you into detracting from the purpose God has set before you!
I’m not a computer person, but I’ve seen some sites where the user’s can “mark as unhelpful” or “thumbs down” a comment and if a certain number of people mark it that way, it gets automatically hidden and you have to click “This comments has been marked at not contributing to the discuss. Click here to see anyways” to see that comment. Maybe you could consider using something like that? Where your readers can help you police the comments?
I have been thinking about a name. Loveys is what I decided on. Loveys or Lovies! Either way our first action or response should be Love.
Thanks!
Joy
1. In humility each should esteem others more highly than them self.
2. “Shulamites” can be your groupie name. Those who want to emulate the woman in Song of Solomon in the holy scriptures, the picture of the woman being loved by her Beloved and one who is passionate about intimacy with Him.
I do like the manner in which you have presented this situation and it does indeed present us a lot of fodder for consideration. Nonetheless, from just what I have experienced, I just hope when the actual feed-back stack on that men and women remain on point and don’t start upon a tirade involving some other news of the day. Anyway, thank you for this superb point and while I can not necessarily concur with it in totality, I value the viewpoint.