On Saturday there was quite the hullabaloo in the comments! I submitted a Reader Question: Is it right to expect your husband to be affectionate occasionally? Is it right to expect him not to ogle other women (especially if you’re right there)?
Some readers left some great suggestions.
But a disagreement broke out between two camps. Their arguments were as follows:
Camp A: Men are easily tempted when it comes to looking at women. If a wife withholds sex, or isn’t “sex positive” (like she sees sex as a chore), he can find it very difficult to stop looking. She really is the cause of him sinning.
Camp B: No one is responsible for another sinning. To look at a woman other than your wife is a sin. And you cannot expect a woman, who is totally demoralized, to then want to experience something really intimate with her husband.
Don’t get mad at me here, but I think both camps are right. I’d like to take each of their points in turn, and then suggest what I think is a helpful way to address an impasse like this in the marriage.
Let’s look first at Camp A, You Can Cause Someone Else To Sin:
Is it possible to tempt someone to sin, or cause someone else to sin?
The quick answer would be appear to be yes. Mark 9:42 says:
And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.
And in Romans 14, Paul is talking about tempting the weaker brother (or sister). He says:
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. (verses 14 & 15). It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. (verse 21)
So Paul is saying: if what you are doing can cause someone else to sin (or fall, or stumble), don’t do it.
Therefore, we are to be very aware of the effect our actions can have on someone else sinning.
We don’t like to think about it very much, but it’s there in Scripture. I think the problem that many of us have is that we start measuring sins: I may have withheld sex, but that doesn’t give him an excuse to have an affair! Or to watch porn! (since I do believe that porn is cheating). And I would agree. These verses never say that when the person sinned THEY ARE NOT ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE SIN. I fully believe that they are. But we still need to be aware of the effect of our actions.
Now Here’s Camp B: Only The Sinner is To Blame:
He’s sinned against me, so how can he expect me to just forget about it and act all intimate and make love? When he sins against me, I absolutely don’t want to make love to him. He’s hurt me.
Absolutely. I totally understand this. In fact, I wrote in The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex that “men make love to feel loved, whereas women need to feel loved to make love.” This is absolutely crucial to a woman’s libido. When she does not feel loved and cherished, she isn’t going to feel in the mood.
And to ask her to “go through the motions” so that she can stop a guy who is acting like a pig from sinning does not appear to be a Christian attitude.
And I would agree with that, too.
So now we’re at an impasse. What do we do?
The Way Through
Ultimately we are responsible for what we did. And it is more important to God that we deal with our own sin than that we worry about someone else’s. When you are in conflict with your spouse, your main job is not to fix your spouse; it is to go to God and ask, where did I play a role in this? And you’re not asking: “Did I cause it?”, because again, people always have a choice whether to sin or not. Nevertheless, searching your heart and seeing where you may have contributed to it helps you to be able to ask forgiveness, and to get on a right footing with God and with your spouse.
And if there is anything that you did–even if you were only 5% responsible, as if such a thing could be measured–it’s important to own up and admit that. It helps you break the ice. You’re not blaming your spouse for everything; you’re saying, “we have a problem. I know that I partially contributed to it. I did X and Y, and I am truly sorry, and ask you to forgive me.”
That is a freeing thing. If you go to a spouse who is using porn after you spent several years not making love to him and you say that, that gets your heart in the right place so that you can now address the issue. And it helps you have a humble attitude before God and your spouse.
So now you’ve dealt with your part–and that should ALWAYS be the first thing we do when we have a conflict.
Now it’s time to deal with your spouse’s part. And this may mean saying something like,
“I realize that I hurt you. But please hear me: I need you to realize how much you are hurting me now. And what I really want is for us to be intimate. I don’t want to refuse you; I want us to have a vibrant sex life. But I CANNOT do that when you are ogling other women/using porn/verbally abusing me (whatever it may be). I don’t want us to go on like this. Can we talk about how to help me feel more loved, so that we can get to a place where we both are feeling loved and cherished?”
You’re starting a conversation. You’re saying what you’re aiming for: intimacy and fun. You’re saying that you want to get there. But you do have a very real roadblock which he needs to address.
There’s been some disagreement in the comments, too, about whether her just having sex with him will reduce the temptation to look at other women. I think so much of that depends on the relationship, and I can’t make a firm pronouncement on that. When men become addicted to porn, for instance, it really is an attraction to an image or an idea or an objectified woman, not a real woman. And having sex with a real woman will not meet the need for a masturbatory selfish act. They’re two separate things.
On the other hand, if a guy is just tempted, and is trying not to fall, it could very well help. It just depends on how deep the problem is, and I can’t comment on that.
I do believe, though, that we shouldn’t wait for the other person to do the right thing before we do the right thing. We shouldn’t wait for the other person to love unconditionally before we love unconditionally. That doesn’t mean we can’t talk and express how we feel. That doesn’t mean we can’t go to a counselor or talk to a mentor couple. But we should still choose to love.
However, there are some relationship dynamics where much more is needed that just a healthy sex life. He needs to repent of lust or porn use, and she can’t fix that by just having sex with him.
So there is no black and white answer!
To sum up this murky mess, here’s what I’d say:
1. Examine yourself and see if you contributed in any way
2. Confess this to your spouse and to God
3. Humbly tell your spouse how his/her actions are hurting you now
4. Express your desire for deeper intimacy/more fun
5. Choose to love your spouse wholeheartedly, even if they are still hurting you (this may not involve jumping into a healthy sexual relationship; if your spouse is making pornographic demands on you, or if your spouse has major sexual sin happening, the next step may be to talk to a counselor or mentor. But you can still choose to love in other ways while the sexual one is dealt with).
Let me conclude by telling you the story of a couple that I know. They’ve been married for several decades. She came into the marriage with some emotional baggage, and found sex difficult. She had anger issues. Sex was never a great part of their marriage, and she did withhold quite a bit.
However, after about a decade he became more and more addicted to porn. It became focused on weirder and weirder things. She confronted him many times; she moved out of the bedroom. She told him that he had to stop. He never did.
They went for counseling; things still didn’t change.
He began surfing internet dating sites, and doing very inappropriate things online.
Eventually she told the elders in her church, and the elders supported their separation.
Had she withheld sex? Yes. Does she need to confess that sin and deal with it? Yes. But at this point, he is so far into sin himself that she cannot rebuild a sexual relationship with him (or indeed any relationship at all) until he deals with his sin. They have both messed up, but he is now the one that is jeopardizing the relationship.
So just because you may have contributed to the sin by withholding sex does not necessarily mean that you can fix it by becoming more “sex positive”. Sometimes the other person may have walked so far down the wrong road that it is first necessary for them to return as well.
That does not put you off the hook; if you have turned a bit to the left, and your spouse has turned a lot to the right, you still have a responsibility to turn back and do your part. But true reconciliation may not be able to happen until your spouse also returns.
Does that make sense? Let me know.
And for all of you who are hurting in this area of your marriage, I know that it is hard. But there is no pit that is so deep that God is not still deeper. And He really can carry you through your pain!
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 25 years and happily married for 20! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 8 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
I completely agree with you on this…while we don’t “make” someone sin, our actions have a huge influence on those around us. It’s the same thing with kids. How many times do we tell our kids to stop yelling and being impatient and then get upset when they don’t want to be around us? Well, who would?
I think it’s important to still react in a godly way even when we are being sinned against. It is wrong for a husband to lust after another woman, but sinning in response is not justifiable. In some ways, withholding sex *can be* an act of revenge or a way of punishing our husband for how hurt we feel. That’s not to say that we just brush over what he did, but true forgiveness extends grace and doesn’t keep a running record of sins.
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My husband and I were just talking about this the other day. I have been listening to this psychiatrist who said no one is responsible for another’s sins. I disagreed with her on the basis of the verses you stated above, but also this verse in 1 Cor. “Do not refuse and deprive and defraud each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time…for prayer. But afterwards resume marital relations, lest Satan tempt you through your lack of restraint of sexual desire.” So if a woman is denying her husband sex, she is definitely causing him to sin according to this verse.
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I have to disagree with you Lori. This verses says that TEMPTATION will come, not that SINNING will come. Then we have 1 Corinthians 10:13 which says “No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.”
I know of several sex starved marriages where one partner was willfully withholding. In each case the offended spouse choose the high road, to honor their covenant of “for better or worse.” If a husband or wife choose to break their marriage vow it is because it is what is in THEIR heart… When we CHOOSE to sin it is simply because sin is what is in our hearts. “For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander” Matthew 15:19
Ugh… pls excuse typos. Must proofread better next time.
Amen. It is about time that men stop blaming their wives for their sins. Men are able to control their urges, they just don’t want to. But each partner should try to give sex to the other.
you are completely misunderstanding the BiBle and what Jesus tries to teach us. Our lives on earth should be sacrificial as servants. We are to attend to the needs of others. He who is greatest will be lest. Our natural focus is ourselves, which is where our sin comes from. Adam shared in the curse of sin which was done by Eve. As a married couple they are one. This is no different than rejecting and blaming your arm for stealing. Your sin is one another’s and if you are partly the cause for the others sin, you have equal responsibility. This is so easily clear in the scriptures. Anything less is simply blindness to everything Christ stood for and taught. If men and women are at an impass – he needs sex to feel loved and she needs to feel loved to have sex – it is exactly these opposites that makes us challenged as selfish sinners. We must overcome what we want and focus on what our partner needs. We must wake up to the truth of the gospel. With love…
I agree with saveyourself. 1 Corinthians 10:13 says, “No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.”
Note: God will not let you be tested beyond what you can bear.
I also agree with you – I’m in both camps, too. I decided a long time ago to take sex off the table as a source of conflict in our marriage, and it has helped so much. But then, my husband is a sweet guy (and was even back when our marriage was struggling), so I understand that that decision may have been easier for me to make than someone who is married to a man with really unloving behavior. Like you said, though, waiting for the other person to stop sinning first is probably not going to be very effective!
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Despite my feeling like I had to defend the woman in the last post, I am completely with you here. No one “makes” someone sin, but since no man is an island, our behavior does affect those we spend time with. And I completely agree that both sides have a point and that we have to acknowledge the pain for all involved.
Sheila,
Thank you. I’m actually in both camps also…obviously that wasn’t coming across in yesterday’s discussion. Great post!
After nearly 20 years of marriage, this is all I know:
You can be proud, in the right and divorced, or you can be humble, repentant and married.
Waiting for your spouse to change their behavior before you are willing to change is a pride thing. And it never ends well.
The person who desires change must lead the way by first examining and changing their own attitudes and behaviors because those are the only things under their control. However, such changes require self-awareness and self-reflection and those can be extremely difficult for some people, especially if they know they are in the right!
Very true!
Well said. 🙂 Thanks, Mark!
Some people have addictive personalities. Has nothing to do with who they are married to. I know a woman who waited for marriage, married a “nice Christian man” only to find out on their honeymoon night that he couldn’t get excited for her without a magazine. Had absolutely NOTHING TO DO with her.
We all have choices.
My husband has gone through three open heart surgeries and back surgery and a host of other health problems. I have stayed completely faithful through all of it.
But when I injured MY back he turned to porn.
Found out later he’d had the problem before he ever met me.
People choose to be faithful or they choose to sin.
If I were younger and healthier I would seriously consider divorce. But it doesn’t really matter that much now.
I am very sad though and lonely a lot.
Don’t tell me any of this is my fault. I don’t buy it.
Completely agree! People do CHOOSE to sin, and from what I’ve seen, the vast majority of guys who turn to porn in their marriage ALSO turned to porn BEFORE marriage. It isn’t something that started after they went down the aisle (especially with younger men). I’m so sorry that your husband betrayed you after your surgery. That’s awful. So truly sorry.
That was in 1999. He has continued to betray me since then. Seven times that I know of. I am sure there were more.
I am numb now. He can’t hurt me any more but I do sometimes wish I had a real marriage.
What finally helped me turn the corner was when Sandra Bullok’s husband proved to be such a perv even though she is pretty, talented and rich.
It is nothing to do with the wives.
It is the men.
Period.
Hello Been There,
I am sorry to hear about what you are going through.
I agree with you that in certain cases (maybe most) the wife has not done anything wrong at all.
I brought my porn addiction into the marriage. It had nothing to do with her looks or behavior or anything like that. It was about me being a weak person before I met her.
The fact that I managed to quit these addictions, and that I am trying hard to make up for them, will never erase the pain I caused her back then.
You’re right, both sides have valid, relevant points. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to every couple’s problems. I think one flaw we Christians sometimes have is that we want the one-size-fits-all answer all the time. Then we end up bickering about it. Which isn’t productive.
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I think this is a great article, just as long as it isn’t forgotten that sometimes men look at porn and cheat even when their wife is ready and willing 24/7. Nothing will stop a person determined to sin.
That’s very true. There’s a fairly popular blogger who experienced just that. But, I think that should be where the story ends instead of where it starts. If the original poster had said something like, “We typically have sex 3-4 times a week, and I’m most always very responsive. I really don’t get this behavior,” then we’d have a much more clear-cut case. Some people are, as you say, determined to sin.
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It might also help women to realize that a man can look at an attractive woman, be attracted, but not actually lust after her. He can then look right back at his wife and think she is beautiful and sexy.
I agree with Sheila. I think both opinions are correct…HOWEVER, if a husband and wife are following God’s Word, it admonishes us wives to submit to our husbands and for husbands to love their wives. The husband’s role is to love his wife, as Christ loves the church. This means that he is to love her in the way that she wants to be loved…and if affection her love language, he needs to do that. HOWEVER, it is not ok for the wife to withhold sex from her husband (or he from his wife). So it goes both ways.
Additionally, you can not MAKE someone sin, but you can provoke them to want to. Withholding sex is an open invitation to satan and his cohorts to come on in. Sex (or lack of) is a barameter of the state of your marriage.
How about some understanding here, “with holding sex” is NOT always with holding sex, in my case, I am married to a man who has made me a second class citizen to every other human being in our lives. Our children have had 1st place, his parents have had 1st place, if there are conflicts he takes everyone else’s side before he ever considers defending me. When I was unjustly fired he took my employer’s side saying I should not have taken the job in the first place, when my daughter has been angry at me, he has always taken her side, even though she is an unbeliever who’s own husband has considered leaving her because she is so caustic with her attitudes and mouth. If anyone needs helps he runs out the door, even when we cannot afford to financially do so, and then blames me because I am not working. And this evening we had a quarrel. This after years of me asking him to not use my nail clippers. In 1999 he was diagnosed with Hepatitis C, and if it were not for me threatening to sue the hospital to treat him with an experimental drug he would have DIED. This evening’s argument ensued after I caught him using my nail clippers, this might seem like a small thing to be mad about. But he was supposed to have his blood checked 1 year and 5 years after treatment. He had his blood checked 6 months after, and never went back to get it checked to make sure the virus did not resurface. He knows he is not supposed to use my nail clippers because of blood to blood contact, and I cannot even donate blood being married to someone with heptatis C, even though he is pronounced “cured”. I have a genetic liver disease which when he was diagnosed with hepatitis C it is protocol to check any patient with hepatitis C to see if they also have this genetic disease called Alpha One Antitrypsin Deficiency which I have. He has refused to go and be checked for the possible reoccurrence of this deadly disease, and thinks it a small thing to use my nail clippers, when in fact, if I ever got hepatitis C from him using my clippers and already having Alpha One Antitrypsin Deficiency- it is a a sure DEATH SENTENCE for me. Now can someone please explain to me how can I be interested sexually in a man who is so calloused as to disregard my health, and possibly MY LIFE?????? I am exhausted feeling alone, tired of being second to everyone else, when it is my God given place to be first after God, Please explain to me how am I supposed to be interested sexually in a man never defends me? How am I supposed to be interested in a man who finds it a big chore to help me for 5 minutes to put a drawer in cabinet because I interrupted his football game? In case you don’t believe me when I say he won’t defend me….he was teaching me to drive, all I had was a learner’s licence, he started yelling at me to make a left hand turn in an intersection, and when he wouldn’t stop yelling at me I finally made the turn and got into an accident. Then he got out of the car and left me ALONE in the middle of the intersection to deal with the cops and the other driver and walked the 5 blocks home. When there are humiliating things to deal with, or responsibilities to deal with he finds uncomfortable, he dumps them on me to deal with rather than being a man and dealing with this crap himself. I feel very alone, he never defends me, and allows others to abuse me, I’d say this is vicarious abuse, and by that I mean, if he allows others to abuse me it is as good as he himself abusing me,, only this way he can justify the abuse and pretend he has done nothing wrong. (even men in the world defend their women)
I am far from the perfect wife, and have been guilty of many things, but I have had God himself punish me for my sins bringing me to repentance and godly sorrow. But this has never been enough for my husband, he continued to punish many years after God forgave me and having heard God tell him that he was no better. He has been very good at, convincing others that he’s this really nice guy, and if there is anything wrong in our marriage, it can’t possibly by anything to do with him…..NOW PLEASE TELL ME……how on earth can I be sexually interested in a man who treats me like this? How can I be interested in a man who treats me like an enemy? Who betrays me consistently year after year? Now, it has been tempting to run away with other men….but I am not stupid, God’s name will be held in contempt, I will be a adulterous hypocrite, God will punish me and rightly so, so I stay hoping one day my husband will give me my rightful place as 1st after God, and defend me when I am wronged, that would be a good start. And maybe not lie and belittle me when I don’t want him using my nail clippers possibly exposing me to hepatitis C when I already have a genetic liver disease and like I said, both together are a death sentence. Anybody with an ounce of understanding and compassion would not do what he does. By the way, as a construction superviser, and dental and medical patient, he freely announces he has had hepatitis C and may still carry the virus and to use caution around him but he FREELY USES MY NAIL CLIPPERS WITH NO REGARD FOR MY HEALTH ONE IOTA!! Please explain to me how I am supposed to be sexually interested in a man like this??? I am not with-holding anything, I just can’t find it in myself to be interested in a man who treats with such disdain and contempt!!! Often the only reason I stay is because the Word of God says so.
hi DMC, I really am so sorry that you’re walking through this in your marriage! Can I ask you a question, though? You say that you’re staying in this very dysfunctional marriage because the word of God says so, but how is this relationship glorifying to God? What is glorifying to God is when two people are transformed to the likeness of Christ. I’m not saying you should leave, but I do think that setting up some clear boundaries and some expectations for behaviour that have consequences is likely a good idea. I wrote a book about this dynamic called 9 Thoughts That Can Change Your Marriage, where we mistakenly believe that the “Christian” thing is to let others treat us with contempt because we’re married to them. But God calls us to be peaceMAKERS, not peaceKEEPERS, and that looks very different. I don’t think God is glorified with you being so bitter and angry and your husband being so callous, because you simply have a piece of paper that says you’re married. I think God is glorified when we deal with the root of the problems. I’d just encourage you to take a look at that book, because it may help give you a different perspective on what the route to real spiritual health looks like.
This was a great answer, I have known women who have had husbands who have struggled with porn and they would have sex with them wherever, whenever and however to have their husbands stop and their husbands still did NOT stop, even women who never had a problem having sex with their husband and STILL their husband had porn issues, So I always cringe when I see other Christian women throw that out there, “well if you were just doing your part” -oh, how untrue that often is! There are very few marriage Christian sites I will follow because I find so many answers to be so shallow and often so wrong. I find yours to just be right on and not only do you speak from pure scripture which I love, you speak from experience of a wise woman who has worked the marriage journey awhile now. You always bless me!
Thank you, Angela! I appreciate that encouragement.
Great thoughts, Sheila! Some things just aren’t lining up for me in my mind, though. There is a clear difference between lusting after a woman and finding someone attractive as a fellow image-bearer of God. Also, what makes me a little uncomfortable about this article is that husbands are being portrayed as incapable of controlling their sexual drive. And women as the gatekeepers of sex. Why is it that women always think they are withholding sex from their husbands? What if both of them have grown so apart that they are mutually withholding sex from each other? A woman is never responsible for her husband’s sin nor is a husband responsible for his wife’s sin if she is unfaithful to him. I think the “sin” is far deeper than merely “withholding” sex. Pride, greed, straying away from Christ, the one who teaches us how to love our spouse better, can these be contributors to a couple drifting apart and ending up in unfaithfulness?
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Hi Rubi, thanks for your comments! I think if you read the original post you may see more where I’m coming from, because I was trying to address THAT scenario, not comment on things as a whole.
I absolutely believe men are capable of controlling themselves. I also believe men are capable of withholding sex (and they do! In about 24% of marriages she has the higher sex drive, and I’ve written at length on this blog about what to do when your husband doesn’t want sex, or your husband is withholding). So I do know it goes both ways.
It’s just that in this particular scenario, the discussion revolved around a guy who was feeding his attraction to other women, so I was commenting specifically on that. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear.
And absolutely, those other things can all be factors, too. It’s just that we were commenting on that particular scenario!
Gotcha! Thanks for clarifying! 🙂
Blessings!
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I think the issue may be in the translation of “cause” … in the Greek it means to put a snare in front of someone (Mark verse) …. and I’m not sure that not having sex does that, maybe … HOWEVER it is still a CHOICE on that persons part to sin or not and not something I make them do by my own sin or not.
I agree with your post for sure …. there’s always other variables …. and I definitely know the feeling of why the heck would I want to have sex with you when I don’t even like you right now?! Plus frankly hubby doesn’t want it that way cause then he knows it’s “pity” sex cause he’s a guy…:)
In my marriage, not having sex does do that. Sin can be in a zillion different forms so maybe its not looking at another woman but there is something else.
Its like not putting a toddler down for their nap and expecting them to behaive in a doctor’s office or something. I hate to use that analogie but I am with toddlers all day so it came to mind easily!
From what I understand, if I don’t have sex or am not willing to provide some kind of release for my husband he can’t even focus at work and after too long he starts to feel sick and is nauseated. I have no idea how that is all connected but I just try to be compassionate.
Andrea,
you said that so much better than what I did below, with so much less words!…that last paragraph hit it on the nail. After 48 hours I’m lonely, after 60 I’m extrememly lonely and irritable, you wait more than 4 days….I’m going crazy, literally crazy!
Sexually starving a spouse, especially for an extended period of time (think years or decades), will make your spouse extremely vulnerable to sexual temptations.
Yes, the sexually starved spouse makes the decision to cross the line into sexual sin, but pushing your spouse right up to the line while admonishing them not to cross it is a pretty poor marital preservation strategy.
Doing everything humanly possible to meet and satisfy your spouse’s sexual needs is a lot more constructive, fun, and less expensive than marriage counseling, divorce, alimony, and child support.
Bottom line, you can use sex to build up, encourage and bless your spouse, or you can use it to tear them down and set them up for failure in the sexual sin department.
Agree!
I’m not talking about sexually starving them … geez but saying no once in awhile and being honest about it is not starving anyone in my book. Look, I’m an active duty military wife, you wanna talk starving? How bout years at a time where he’s gone? 😀 We are not animals who cannot control their urges, nor do we HAVE to have sex every few days to survive, sure it’s great but it’s not a CAUSE for my husband to sin or a snare unless HE chooses to go there.
Agreed. If you remained pure before marriage..what’s the difference afterward?
Amen to this article and your POV Sheila! Thank you.
I am about to be 30 and from my generation, I can’t think of 1 woman who was taught good Godly lessons about sex. Ok, maybe the Duggars, but that’s it. No people I know have done the work to teach their girls about sex. Not even Christians. So fast forward to our marriages. Many of us have a lot of sexual sin and we don’t know how that is affecting things or even if it is but I assure you, in my marriage, my husband and I are starting to see.
To the women who say, “you aren’t doing your part” to prevent a husband from cheating or using porn, I can kinda agree. However, I would suggest that woman doesn’t know what her part is and that’s why she wasn’t doing it. I know, I was her. Before marriage, sex was purely for self. After it purely is for the other, the idea being that if both hold that view it works. Well, that is a far cry from what women are taught and what they live from age 17 on. We need to mentor these women and teach them the truth!!
This is going to be in reply to a few different responses. First, Angela: it’s a sad fact but yes many men can’t break away from porn. I’m not sure how many it effects or what ratio & each person is probably unique but I know the day my wife became sex positive after a great many years of not being it was easy for me to quit. There was a few times that first few months when I was still learning to trust her and she was still learning where I slipped up so please wives, understand your husband might be one of the ones able to break free! I’ve talked with a lot of men on this and I know many who have quit.
I wish women understood this about men. I’ve been able to master everything I’ve ever needed to in life. If I desired to do something I could do it. Whether that was going from the fat, smart kid to the captain of the basketball team within one year and never having to pick up a basketball before back in middle school. To graduating most likely to succeed in high school and college. To leading many people to the Lord every year in ministry. To owning a highly successful business. To raising kids that even other parents think are the best kids in the world. I’m not saying this to boast…but to paint the picture of a man who when he puts his mind to it can do just about anything within my sights. But beating lust, porn and controlling my sexual drive (as one poster put it) was impossible until my wife was on board. It didn’t how much I prayed, how many filters someone put on the internet, turning the cable off, reading any numerous of books that were suggested yesterday….nothing worked. The lonliness, the guilt, the hurt, etc that I felt there are times when you could think about eating your pistol…and this is from a man that “has it all” & is happy in every other aspect of his life. You think you know, “sex is important to my husband,” yeah I get it you think. No you don’t. It’s a huge and intregal part of who we are. It defines a big part of who we are, I mean a big part. It’s what we look forward to. It’s what “fun” is to us. It’s all our other favorite things rolled into one times 10! I know there are things I will never be able to fully comprehend about how a female feels but I take my wife’s word on it, because I trust her. I take a great of you women’s word on it…I just will never know. I don’t understand or agree with all of them & yet I will live them out for my wife because I know they are important to her. I know I was turning to cheap imitations, lies from the pit of hell, etc…but all I wanted was sex with my wife. Really. Some won’t believe that. I can’t convince you otherwise so I won’t try. All I wanted was for me to mean enough she wanted to be with me and enjoy me/us. When that wasn’t available eventually I turned to lies…a hungry person will eat pure lard and sugar all day if that’s all they have and we wouldn’t blame them. I can tell you this (and remember I was the “fat boy”…I can go hungry if need be longer than I could go without attention from my wife)
The day my wife “got it” it was like our marriage transformed overnight. Immediately things were different. Men are pretty simple creatures. All we want from the world is sex and respect from our wives & a hug and some time with our kids and to work hard at something we are good at…everything else is meaningless outside of our relationship with God…but I’ll tell you what at least for me 90% of my relationship with God is through the above mentioned five things…that’s how it’s lived out, felt, etc. So even that comes back to the above.
I know some of you have husbands that you’ve tried that route and it hasn’t worked, I’m sorry I don’t have any advice for you except to keep trying and praying…unfortunately it can take a long time and sometimes it will never happen. I wish I had better news. I know for a long time I didn’t think my wife would ever get it, it just about destroyed my faith. I’m sorry if you are in the place. I get it. It sucks. Hang in there.
So my point is this, I think in theory Sheila is right, men can conquer their sexual drives. Even if our wives never are able to meet our needs I believe it is possible for a husband to stay pure & holy and love his wife…but I want to tell you it was the one thing in my life I was never able to do and it wasn’t for lack of prayers, tears, effort or study or love for my wife. You may not like that answer. That may make you feel uncomfortable…but I think as I have talked to other men, read my Bible, looked at history, spoke with other Christian men, etc I believe is true for a great many of us “men”.
Anyway for what it worth….God bless in your own marriage.
My husband does not struggle in this way (I have the higher drive), so it is hard for me to even begin to understand where you are coming from. My husband and I are best friends and he is my favorite person ever, and I am thankful everyday for the blessing of him. I am also very aware that one reason he is so perfect for me is because of things that happened in my past such as a boyfriend who was abusive, took what he wanted, all the while struggling to not wolf call every woman he saw. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would not have been able to handle a husband with a lust problem. I am a strong woman, but having to go through that again would have me curled up in the corner in a ball. My husband has eyes only for me, probably because thats all I can handle. I am amazed at women that can get past those indiscretions because without divine intervention it would not be humanly possible for me. I love God and his awesome omniscience, knowing who to put together because it WILL work if we let God do His work. Blessings to you too.
Stephanie,
Your background helps me understand where you are coming from. When we married, my wife just didn’t understand what sex meant to her husband or in marriage & because of that she didn’t understand me, my actions or hers.
She does now. So this is not about me. I’m not on here sounding like a crazy guy because I’m hurting, but because I know other women and men are hurting. Women are hurting because they wonder why their husband can’t/won’t love them. Well the reason he can’t is his tank can only run on E for so long before you having nothing left to give (and are tempted to lust). Us men have our many problems and I know we cause you women to hurt greatly. And when I talk or minister to men I hold their feet to the fire & try to hold my own!…I think women need to understand and hold other women’s feet to the fire on this one and to also to try and understand what no in either body or mind means to their husbands. It’s not hurtful. It’s gut wrenching, want to die kind of hurt. It’s I’d rather get punched in the face, fired from work, and get thrown out of our home kind of hurt. Really.
Again, I’m not going through this anymore, I’m just passionate about it because it would fix 25% of Christian marriages overnight…I just see so many women on here hurting everyday and wondering why their husbands aren’t actively loving them the way they need it. And no doubt some are just selfish jerks, some worse, some just have really bad problems. But I bet a large portion of them just have husbands who haven’t “felt” their kind of love in years, if ever in their marriage…He wants to not only love his wife, he wants to live pure & holy…he’s just at the end of his rope. And I’m not trying to paint a picture of the wives are evil and out to get him. The reason I keep explaining is so the understand what sex means to their husbands & the hurt their husbands are going through. And I understand you are the high drive wive, and since I don’t know what that feels like I’m only guessing here but it’s an educated guess based on studies and the biblical teachings on men and women…sex drives for most men (not all, maybe like your husband) are such a strong thing. Like I said earlier it is literally the one thing in my life (and since I’ve spoken to hundreds of men…some very put together, some not so the mileage varies) this is true for most of us. God gave us a wife to meet that need, like a river has it’s channel but if that river is dammed up all havoc breaks loose, that’ s not to excuse the river (it’s sin all day long, everyday of the week and thank God for His grace and mercy)…but it happens almost everytime. Just as there is a cause and effect about how husbands treat their wives and their wives libidio. If a husband is rejected, shutdown, putdown, etc for a long enough period of time it hits the fan no matter for most of us the love we have for our wives or the Lord.
Sorry to all again for taking up so much space. Thanks for your extreme patience.
What about the women who are handicapped? This is so sad. Men can’t learn to control themselves. I am sorry. I don’t believe that men still love their wives when they cheat. Scripture is clear what “love” looks like. What if the man wasn’t able to perform his duty of providing? It wouldn’t be okay for the woman to step out/ porn satisfy. Men are men, okay. It is really hard for them, okay. If they say they CAN’T do it….I find that difficult to just swallow. Husbands are commanded to give up their lives for their wife….LIKE CHRIST.
I truly appreciated the analogy of the roads. It transformed the way I think in that I now understand I don’t always have to met people exactly where they are if they are “off the road”.
Shiela,
I’ll say from the perspective of a man who has wrestled with many of the very issues you address above (and whose wife has as well, with the issues you more frequently ascribe to wives), this post really spoke to me. I think you come about as close as any author I’ve read to properly dealing with what you in the post call positions A and B.
Thank you for this excellent piece. As to relevant scripture, does not 1 Cor. 7:5 come very close to your point? Paul admonishes couples not to abstain from sex for too long but to come together “again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.” The verse seems to at once acknowledge the need for the spouses to help protect one another from sin by coming together but also the fact that the real source of any sin is the sinning spouse’s “lack of self control.”
Well done Shelia! Ultimately we all need to look at ourselves first and foremost. This is true when we are the more obvious sinner and just as true when our spouse is the more obvious sinner.
Paul H. Byerly recently posted…“When?” is a very important question.
I’ve been mulling this over ever since the question was first posed last weekend, and I feel like I have to say something.
Please, please, please do not place the blame for a husband’s sin on his wife. While I agree that a woman absolutely must do everything she can to take care of her husband’s sexual needs, even if she is not doing a good job of that you cannot place the responsibility of her husband’s choices on her. A lack of satisfaction at home does not justify the sinful pursuit of satisfaction elsewhere.
I am the wife of a very good man who was caught in the trap of pornography. It started before we got married, and it continued into our marriage even when I was being very attentive to his sexual needs.
When I discovered my husband’s addiction — 13 years into our marriage — it hit me hard. It was a betrayal to our vows, and it deeply wounded my trust in him and my confidence in myself. I questioned my attractiveness, my ability to please him, and whether I had somehow caused this. As we dug into it with a counselor I learned that it had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with Satan.
Satan found a weakness in my husband that was created years ago by some of the circumstances of his childhood. Satan began to chip away at it until that weakness was a toehold. He used pornography to carve that toehold into a foothold, and then that foothold became a stronghold as porn and self gratification sullied our marriage bed. Sure, there have been times when I have struggled to do my part to fulfill my husband’s sexual needs, but my husband admits that even during our extremely intimate times, his sin found a way to creep in.
We are each responsible for our own sin. Scripture instructs both husbands and wives to keep the marriage bed pure (Heb. 13:4) and to satisfy each others’ needs sexually (1 Cor. 7:5). It also says that when a man looks at a woman other than his wife with lust, he is committing adultery (Matt. 5:28). A woman’s sin of not satisfying her husband in no way gives that husband the right to ogle other women, nor does it cause him to do so. I agree that wives can help guard against such things by being very attentive to things in the bedroom (and I openly teach that women absolutely must do so), but even then the responsibility of guarding his heart and his mind by controlling his eyes belongs to the husband.
I would almost guarantee that the woman who originally posed this question is already feeling very hurt by her husband and desperately insecure about her ability to please him. To tell her that it is somehow her fault that he drools over other women is an extremely low blow in my book. Yes, she needs to be encouraged to keep doing everything she can to meet her husband’s sexual needs, but she also needs to understand at some point that this is something she cannot change for her husband. He needs to take a good look at what he is doing in light of Scriptural teachings on the subject, and he’s got to decide to change. If it is a true sexual addiction, he probably needs to seek out a Christian counselor. I would also recommend that both the husband and the wife read “Every Man’s Battle” by Arterburn and Stoeker.
My heart really goes out to this wife, and to so very many more women who are experiencing the very same thing. Satan is ruthless in his attempts to destroy marriages, I think in part because he knows that God designed it to reflect the beautiful relationship He has with His people. He (Satan) has taken something so precious and beautiful as sexuality and turned it into a weapon against us. He uses it as a hook to pull men and women away from God, their families and their spouses, and we must be diligent in our fight against him.
Angie recently posted…So This Is Love, part 2: An Enduring Love
Angie, thank you for your thoughtful comment. I really appreciate it. And if you were to look back on all the things I’ve written about porn, I think you will see that over and over again I’ve said that, especially for younger women, they really had nothing to do with the porn use. Their husbands started before they were married (like yours did), and the porn really had nothing to do with the wife; it was an obsession with a masturbatory self-fulfillment with an image, not with a person. Sex had been changed and warped in their minds, and nothing that the wife could do could change that.
The problem was that whenever I said that, disputes would break out in the comments because some commenters (mostly men, but some women) would say that porn use was caused by a wife withholding. I have not seen that to be the case on the whole, especially with younger women, where the men grew up exposed to porn.
Nevertheless, I believe that it can be a factor in some cases, and there is definite scriptural basis for believing that we can tempt someone or “cause” them to sin. That does not mean that they are not accountable; only that we need to be careful and examine our hearts.
I hope you can see the scriptural aspect of what I tried to share. I do think the approach that I gave is likely the most helpful one: be honest before God; lay your heart bare; acknowledge any sin that you have (even if it’s relatively minor), and then you can deal with his. This would also be what Matthew 7 says; first take the plank out of your own eye. In this case I’d be saying first take the speck out of your own eye before you deal with his plank, but I think the order is still the same; we deal with ourselves before God, and then we are truly free to deal with our spouse.
And most porn use is NOT caused by the wife, as I’ve said before. It really isn’t. I know many male commenters disagree with me, but it just isn’t. Nevertheless, I think this is a middle ground between the two camps, and I think that we need to really talk about practical solutions to resolving these conflicts even if, as I said in the last example, we really can’t find reconciliation because his sin has gone too far.
Shiela,
I did appreciate your five steps that you listed in your article. I think what was bothering me this week were the comments by your readers that suggested the wife who posed the question had somehow earned her husband’s roving eyes by not being available enough to him sexually. I remember so vividly how awful I felt about myself and how deeply I questioned my role in my husband’s sin, and I felt so badly for this wife in light of some of the comments. I don’t think anyone who has never been in her shoes can understand how hurtful that point of view can be.
Angie recently posted…The Availability Factor
Yes, I would agree, and let me say this again so that everybody who reads this will see it absolutely: IF A HUSBAND USES PORN, IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF CASES IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS WIFE, AND VERY OFTEN STARTED BEFORE THE MARRIAGE. To blame her for the porn use, then, is simply wrong. The number of women I’ve had on this blog who said, “my husband had sex on the first night of our honeymoon and then ignored me after that” is astounding. He is the one with the problem. She still needs to make sure she hasn’t contributed (that’s always our role in relationship), but ultimately, in this case, the vast majority of the problem is his.
Sheila, I liked your article. I was one of the very vocal posters in the debate in response to the letter writer. I felt that some of the men in the comments were basically saying that a woman has a responsibility to be “sex positive” no matter how her husband treats her. My problem with this lies in the fact that a woman’s libido dries up when she feels used or uncared for by her husband and that expecting a woman to go through the motions and act like she desires her husband and have sex with him in that state separates the physical act from true intimacy and love and reduces sex to a base physical act, which is contrary to the Christian model of marriage. As I understand your article, you recommend that the couple in such a situation work on building their relationship and commit to treating each other with love and respect, which may not include sexual relations right away. I think that makes sense.
Thanks, D! It is a fine balance, isn’t it?
D writes, “You recommend that the couple in such a situation work on building their relationship and commit to treating each other with love and respect, which may not include sexual relations right away.”
Okay, the wife’s refusing first in this situation, he’s turned to porn. I get it, he’s sinning. AWEFUL, TERRIBLE DECISION. But so is she!!!!!!!!!!! Her sin is no better (it’s not sawdust as Sheila refers to it vs. his plank) “may not include sexual relations right away”….holy cow, we are right back to where we were to begin with! You get this is HOW he feels loved right??? In this situation, this is what started the ball rolling. So we are right back to you love me and jump through all the right hoops and then I’ll do my part if I feel like it. Wow, I get it you aren’t trusting him right now. DO YOU GET HE DOES NOT TRUST YOU EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You honestly have no reason to trust him and honestly he has no reason to trust you. You are asking him to do his part but aren’t willing to do step up to the plate until he proves himself…yikes. Sex is not just fun to him….he’s not just missing his favorite hobby. It’s how he feels loved. To any woman reading this in THIS situation and you suggest this to your husband, well let’s just say you aren’t going to have the best chance of success. I know it’s incredibly painful but trust me, he is in just as much pain.
You cannot jump into a sexual relationship with someone who is committed to seeking out porn or prostitutes online, any more than you can jump into a sexual relationship with someone who is having an affair.
I was not talking about casual porn use in that example; I was talking about someone who completely had given themselves over to porn. Fixing the sexual relationship can only come after a time of repentance from both. The relationship is just as broken as if an infidelity occurred.
So Sheila may I ask how exactly is she dealing with her sin in this issue then? You are setting this up from side (I’m not talking about prostitutes here…even then I wonder what God asked of Hosea towards Gomer…but I’ll fight that battle a different day). How is she dealing with her sin towards him? By making a promise to one day in the future make it right. She did that already once remember on their wedding day. She broke that promise just as bad as he did. You are setting this up again as I will love you when I feel safe and when I feel loved, except the whole reason this started IN THIS INSTANCE is she set about an environment where he did not feel safe or loved.
You seem to be indicting once again you think refusal is somehow way better than using porn. Both are in fact devasting. And in this instance you have admitted the refusal got the ball rolling down this path, but you are asking for it to be the last thing dealt with. Your solution is one sided at this time. It’s dealing with one side of the pain & one side of the person’s action and not the other.
If my wife would have used this approach I can guarantuee you we would be divorced instead of blissfully married. Instead of having the best marriage in our church we would have a broken family. Sheila, I know I have asked you to rethink many a few of your stands but one this one I believe you might be causing marriages to fail.
I totally agree that both are devastating. It’s just that you can’t fix something without first rebuilding trust, and if a man is heavily using porn, he has to stop. He just does. I’m sorry, but I won’t compromise on this.
In the example I used, she did deal with her sin. She talked to her husband, and admitted what she did was wrong. She left the door open for reconciliation if and when he was willing to give up the porn. But if a guy refuses to give it up, even after the elders have been brought in, she has little recourse until he makes a change.
Let me put it this way: they both have done things to mess up and violate their sex lives. Both things need to stop. But until they both decide to stop, that sex life can’t be rebuilt, because sex has to be based on trust and intimacy. If both partners were having extramarital affairs, and one decided to stop and rebuild the marriage, that’s great. But they can’t rebuild the marriage until the other partner also stops the affair. That’s all I’m saying. They both have to stop.
Yes, she made a promise, but so did he. They both have violated promises. And they both have violated marriage vows. Now they both have to stop in order to rebuild the marriage. As long as she is open to reconciliation, and has confessed her sin, then she is not erring by insisting that he keep the marriage bed pure.
Look, when my mother finally left my father, it was because he said, “I’ll stay married to you and raise Sheila, but I want to keep my woman on the side.” Mom tried for a bit, and finally said enough was enough.
There are some things in marriage you don’t compromise on. This would be one of them.
By the way, I would say the same thing to someone married to a spouse who is withholding sex–and I have said so, loudly, on many occasions. There is no double standard here. I am holding them up to the same standard, that’s all.
Okay Sheila, but in this instance he has repented…at least where D is speaking as far as I’m understanding it. I won’t compromise either. They both come together that day and say I’m sory, I don’t want this to keep going this way, I want to change my behavior…but you are saying they’ve got to rebuild their relationship before sexual relations takes place? Do you see what I’m saying, you are asking him to have faith and asking her to have none. You are asking him to trust and you are asking her to have none.
I have no problem, if that man chooses to keep on sinning (unless it’s an occassional slip as he gets back on his feet and by occassional I mean 1 or 2) with what you are saying but as far as I understand they have come together and said, I’ve done you wrong and I don’t want to do you wrong anymore….by asking him to wait, a week a month, I’ve heard six months….just write up the divorce papers really. In that scenario, what you are asking is not only unfair, it’s unbiblical.
Now to be clear, if a wife is available and willing and trying to meet her husbands needs and he still chooses porn or another woman I have no problem with a reconcilation period. My only two caveats are 1) she doesn’t get to decide solely what “meeting his needs are” 2) if he is sincere in his repentence and you want him to succedd it had better be short
I’m sorry about your dad. I grew up in a similar situation so I know your pain on this.
I have no problem with your disgust of porn. I think you think I’m mad at you for covering this so thoroughly. I am not. I think it’s great. I just want the same power, fervency, disgust on withholding or almost withholding. I want the same verbage used. I know you are talking to women who are hurting and so you are trying to be gentle, but in some sense you are doing them a disservice if you can’t accurately portray the devastion brought upon their husbands by this just as selfish and worldly act.
I have been married for almost 2 years and have never had the opportunity to say “No, not tonight” b/c my husband is constantly wanting sex. In fact, he hardly ever wanted to have sex with me although while dating it was so hard to wait until our wedding night, which we did. I married as a virgin, he did not. I would think he would cherish that aspect, but instead he selfishly looks at porn (that he said was no longer a problem before we got married). He lied, betrayed and deceived me. It has ALWAYS been a problem, even before me. I have difficulty with orgasm b/c I have not learned what works best for me b/c we have had sex so little. How is that fair? He never gave me a fighting chance and then tells me I’m not good enough sexually and can never be like the women he lusts over in the videos. He has tried to justify his actions by saying I am disrespectful, and I have been. I agree with that…my words hurt. My words are a result of the hurt that he has inflicted on me. It comes from a deep wound that was inflicted during the earliest part of our marriage when I caught him and he STILL denied his actions. I know that being disrespectful is not justifiable and I honestly want to fix this… I have approached the subject time and time again and each time he says it’s none of my business what he is doing and THAT response makes me feel denied of my feelings and who I am. He wanted to handle the problem on his own, which has gotten us nowhere. He doesn’t understand that his actions have made me feel cheated on and that I have never been the ONLY woman in our marriage. He says he has never been unfaithful or given me a reason to not trust him. What??? He told me last night I am not good enough. How’s that for insensitivity? He says I need counseling, not him. He has stopped wearing his wedding ring, too. If he does not fix this problem I am walking out. I love the Lord with all my heart and want to be mentally, emotionally and spiritually healthy (physically too). This is emotional abuse…
Oh, Jamie, I’m so, so sorry. I don’t know if you’ve read them, but I’ve written quite a few posts on what to do if your husband uses porn, and quite simply, you acting more respectful isn’t going to stop him. Sure, you should do it because you should do it, but his problems are far greater than that. Here are three posts that will help point you in the right direction. But you MUST do something about this. It won’t get better on its own. Porn can become an addiction, and we can’t assume that it will just go away without intervention.
It is a full blown addiction, the things he said were straight from the devil himself. I appreciate ALL of your posts. They have been VERY helpful. I am researching counselors and will attend even if I have to go alone. I do not want our marriage to end…
If I say “not tonight” a few days out of the week am I “withholding” sex from ny husband? My husband is addicted to porn and had issues with it before we were married. I figured he would stop after we were married. WRONG. I’m praying about the best way to confront him about it right now. I can hardly look at him without feeling anxiety and pain. I guess I dont want him to turn around and say I never have sex and am withholding and that’s why he watches porn everyday.
I love your posts. So helpful. Thank you.
Sara, that’s a really difficult question, because I do think that porn needs to be dealt with before a sex life can be good. At the same time, I wouldn’t say “don’t sleep with him until he quits porn”. It so depends on your relationship. I’d confront him very soon about it and start the road to healing here. If you go to this post, you’ll see a list of posts I’ve written about pornography use, and many of them talk about how to confront your husband. I’d also really encourage you getting something like the Covenant Eyes accountability program, to give him help in fighting the temptation.
Prayers for you!
Great post! My only contrary thought would be that I am so tired of men using the we’re more wired visually thing as an excuse to sin. It’s still a choice that person makes, can a woman encourage that? Yes but she does not cause it in the sense of making them do it so much as opening the door further to the temptation but it’s still the man’s choice to walk through it or not.
As usual you’ve covered something sticky in a great fashion!
Thanks so much, Holly!
I cannot agree with this. My husband committed a BIG sin against me and even though our pastor has made it clear that IT WAS NOT my fault AT ALL, HOWEVER, during our time apart, I realized that I did play a part in it. The reason I do not agree wit h this post: 1. I feel as though, all I see is BLOG posts stating how WOMEN should always apologize, how its always our fault, yada yada. What is the husband’s fault? 2. There where ALOT OF times I did not get what I wanted out of our marriage and I never committed adultery against him.
Good morning!
I’ve been with my husband over thirty years. I’m in my early 50’s. we have been through everything imaginable in thirty years, yet survived by the grace of God. Yes, we could have divorced, but chose to stay together. Although, in back of his and my mine we surely think of past offenses, we don’t bring them up. I think we both hurt.
We can’t get past the bedroom. We don’t have an Intimate connection anymore. I worry about Internet …etc…but I am not in control. I think he knows how I feel about that, clearly!!! I don’t think he goes there today! I know, possibly, age is a factor with sex? Or even medications? Past mistakes? Heartaches? We love each other and for the most part have a lot of respect for one another as both of us are far from perfect. I just wish making love was as easy for us, like when we were in our twenties! We have gone to counseling in the past. Oh well. I think when 2 people after so long has not ” gone there” it’s hard to get back into it. For me anyway. I think one big problem is we don’t spend one on one quality time together….and romance one another. I would love to get a hotel room and just see what happens. We do have a son. He is wonderful and I have to admit…is my husbands main love! I’m glad he’s a great dad, but putting him first in our relationship has left us just loving him. It’s ok for us to give our boy all of us, but I think it has hindered our romantic side. I always tell myself it could be worse, and that is what gets me by daily. Like I said he’s a great dad and 100% there for him. He is 95% there for me. I guess I’ve given up on something’s as its just easier to reckon with. Anyway, hope this makes sense. Thanks for listening….
I just read this on CCFTL: Your Sin Has Side Effects!
My husband regularly looked at porn, even after being found out, committed adultery with a married woman half his age, left our family (five children) and divorced me. Yes, there were problems, but I kept trying and would often apologize for my part. I enjoyed sex with him and did not withhold sex. He rarely apologized and often blamed me for our problems. I was so beat down by the time he left. I’m not sure how I could apply these two perspectives to our marriage.
Donna, I’m so sorry that you went through this! I think if I were going to apply them, I would say this: you examine yourself and see if you have sinned in anyway, and you apologize for that. But then you draw very clear boundaries that say this: Whatever I have done, or whatever you think I have done, nothing justifies using porn or having an affair (and I mean NOTHING). So I will not rebuild a relationship until you commit to being truly faithful to me and to our family. It sounds like your husband wasn’t willing to do this, but that in no way was your fault. A person is still accountable for their own sins, and as soon as someone starts blaming another for their sin, that, in and of itself, is a sin because it’s a refusal to own up to what you have done.
We are all responsible to examine ourselves and apologize where needed and repent where needed. But if the other partner is not also willing to do that, then very often we can’t rebuild a relationship. If they are involved in things that are damaging the relationship so much, then they need to be told that this is not acceptable.
Again, I’m so sorry that you and your kids have had to walk through this. That’s truly heartbreaking.
I am so sorry you went through this. Sometimes you can do everything you can, but if the other person isn’t inline with what the goal is (staying married) , then it won’t work no matter how hard you try. The reason I come to this con conclusion, is that my ex husband would deny ME sex and even though I was always trying to please him by making the house cleaner, making his favorite meals, keeping my 18 month old quieter when he slept, and even getting pregnant with a second baby (even though I wanted to wait another 6 months), he cheated on me (with a MAN that he is still with 7years later). We never even fought. So you can try and try and try, but it takes two people. Two who are in it for the same common goal. That goal has to be a Christ centered marriage or it will never work. Don’t blame yourself. Lean on God and He will heal your heart. God healed me. I have been married to an amazing man for 3 years now. I have a total of three kids now and we share a Christ centered marriage. I don’t know of you are remarried and I am sure you have gone through so much, maybe even to your breaking point. I pray you will not only find healing, but also someone that can share your and your children’s life in a Christ centered marriage.
I think that 1Corinthians says it best. It says that you shouldn’t deprive your spouse or otherwise you will be tempted. I am not saying creating is right, I am saying the bible clearly states that our body isn’t ours while married and we should deprive eachother of sex. God made sex beautiful and he made it for us to share and reconnect. Not to use over one another and not deprive eachother.
1 Corinthians 7: 1-7
1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
(Although not in a marriage context) My ex used to abuse me physically, mentally and emotionally. He also cheated on me and got his ex girlfriend pregnant. They aborted the child and the other woman had to tell me through text what took place.
I NEVER once cheated on him, even after I found out. I chose not to. I just chose to leave. He hurt me all the time. If I wanted to cheat I would have just done so. Him treating me like garbage did not persuade me or convince me to go behind his back and find someone else and sin. My sin (if that is what I chose to do) would be my choice. I wasn’t getting what I desperately needed in a companion. Many faithful married folk are married to imperfect people who hurt them, but they choose not to cheat on them even when it can take years for their partner to change. My ex sinned against me all the time. So why didn’t I cheat? Because I relied on God and God gave me the strength. I didn’t rely on my ex to satisfy my needs 24/7 every single day of the year…that’s God’s job.
But if you’re a virgin, or a spiritual virgin; you are still not getting what you need. You’re not being blessed with a man or woman of God who can sexually satisfy you, and satisfy you emotionally, and spiritually. So if people choose not to sin when God doesn’t give them a spouse which is what they need, then why when spouses get married and don’t get their needs met do they all of a sudden decide to cheat and sin? If we are not getting our companionate needs met (before we are married) is not God the Father our sufficiency? And if so should we not go to Him and submit to Him and then humble ourselves and go to our spouse lovingly asking them to help build a stronger bond?
How many times do I read how hard it is for some men and women, not all, to emotionally meet the needs of their companion. Withholding emotionally is sinning as well. Often times I find (also from experience) men will beg their companions for sex….but will not emotionally satisfy their spouse. So If my husband will not emotionally satisfy me the first person I go to is God, and then to my husband. My reliance will always be on God. Is that not what we do before we are in a marital relationship? So is that not what our pattern should be? To kneel before the Father when tempted and to rely on God to fulfill us when our desires lead us a stray? To be honest if my husband was withholding from me emotionally or sexually or affection which is neglect by the way;which I believe is a form of abuse, which is grounds for me to leave him, than I would simply ask him, would you rather someone else other than you at least try to do what is right for this relationship or would you like to help me try and make things work through the grace of God.
When I say “someone else” I am referring to the “future husband” if you will, not going behind my current husbands back and cheating on him. I mean if things cannot be fixed through God’s grace especially on the other person’s part, and divorce is required…I mean someone else in that sense after the unfortunate separation. Just wanted to clarify. This situation hurt me so much, and I tried and tried to give of myself and be faithful to this individual and be patient with this person for them to change and submit themselves to God, but got absolutely nothing back in return.
Nobody can force somebody else to sin, but they can encourage, provoke, or entice somebody to sin, or put them in a vulnerable state that compromises their ability to resist sin. The individual is still responsible for their actions, but anybody who contributed to their making that choice is responsible for what they did to provoke them to go in that direction.
I think that God is understanding of a person’s circumstances. Not to the point of excusing somebody’s sin, but I think he looks at an adulterer who has a cold , refusing wife as being less rebellious against him than an adulterer who has a warm, giving wife. Both are wrong, both need to repent, but one has fallen further than the other.
This is so good! I needed to hear these words today. Thank you for sharing. Your blog posts have been a huge source of encouragement for me over the last year!