How do boys learn to be men? By seeing what other men do.
Yet what if there are very few men around?
Recently, on the blog Traditional Christianity, Alte wrote this about her son:
Within our family men still play a strong role, and the Catholic Church still has male leadership, so we are lucky. But other than his male relatives and the priests, men are a complete no-show. He can pass them in the street, or see them drive by in their trucks, but that is about all. Men are increasingly an oddity; a bit of a freak-show.
Women are the norm, and boys are limited to measuring themselves against their mommy or mommies, which leads to effeminacy (emulating women) or machismo (doing the opposite of women), rather than the healthy and balanced masculinity that men once handed down to the youth. This is the precise opposite of the manner in which the sexes used to be separated and mommies were useful for figuring out what women are like.
My son’s catechism teacher, his gym coach, his school teachers, choir leader, his swim coach, his bus driver, etc. are all women. Every last one. Even our “mail man” is a “mail woman”. The only non-family man he interacts with is the milk delivery man, and I suppose it’s only a matter of time before men are driven out of that business, as well. There used to be a man next door whom he’d help with wood-chopping or playing with his dogs, but his wife has thrown him out, so he’s gone now too.
I do think that this is a problem, and I’ve written about it before. Our church has instituted “Plan to Protect” rules to keep kids safe from potential predators, but also the church safe from lawsuits. And the hoops we have to jump through are excessive. We can’t drive kids in cars unless two unrelated adults of opposite genders are present. We can’t teach kids unless two unrelated adults are in the room. Etc. Etc.
I think what this does is make men less likely to want to volunteer. It’s a hassle. And would you always want to be under suspicion? So why would a male go into teaching primary school? Or why would a male volunteer anywhere with kids anymore? You may as well put a target on your back.
I know there are good safety issues for many of these things, but let’s not pretend that what we’ve created is good for kids, either. It is not healthy for boys to grow up in an almost entirely female world.
I don’t have boys, but I’m curious what some of you who have boys think. And when we look at how much more disengaged boys are becoming from school, I do fear for our future.
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Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 29 years and happily married for 24! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 7 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.
You know, women molest and rape boys as well. Unfortunately, rather than despise those sick and disgusting pedophiles, the world celebrates them, even though boys who are molested or raped by women grow up more emotionally disturbed than boys who are molested or raped by men. (I read that in a book about sexual abuse.)
I think there was even a movie made recently where a teenage boy was congratulated for impregnating a woman who had seduced him. What if it had been the opposite – what if a man had seduced a teenage girl and impregnated her? The attitude towards it would have been completely different. It’s quite honestly disgusting.
Sorry, one of my soapboxes.
I think that depends somewhat on where you live.
I have 2 son’s and we are heavily involved with Boy Scouts of America so they get quite a few good male role models. They both have male teachers (the older changes classes and has about 50% male / 50% female teachers). And when they play sports if I’m not coaching the team it’s always been a male coach in that arena.
In teaching confirmation class, church youth groups, etc it’s been primarily a male pastor / lay leader in that role or sometimes a male/female team.
I can however see from the past when the kids were all young and would do play dates (before being in school) it was all mothers there and they were around their mom or other women most of the day and the boys become quite a bit more tender hearted. That’s not entirely a bad thing as most of us grown men could use a little more sensativity at times, but I imagine if they had grown up with only a female influence things could be much different.
I guess the big thing is if you have boys and feel they are not getting enough of a male influence from just the father then look hard for other activities to get them involved with that have a strong male presense. Scouts is one of the best options and should be easy to find most places, but there are many other options depending on your location, resources, and time.
Huh, I had to think about this and it’s true. I have three boys – ages 4, 3 and 6 months – and I can only think of one non-family man that they interact with (apart from friends’ husbands when we get together with other families). My four year old has a male teacher in his Sunday School class, but he’ll move on from that class this year and will be back to all women again. I’ve always been happy that he has had a male teacher. I don’t know how you get more men involved in the kids areas at church though; at least at our church, most of them are kinda tapped out doing the adult leadership roles (small groups, elders, deacons, teaching classes, ushers, etc). We are tentatively planning on homeschooling them so that my husband can be somewhat involved in their education; he disengaged from school at a young age and doesn’t want the same thing to happen to them. I think them seeing him value education will make a difference.
My husband and I have also had conversations about how he feels there’s always suspicion on men with kids now. He has asked me to take our babysitters home at night so that no one would ever question his integrity (even though there have never been issues like that).
My son is 8. He plays intramural sports throughout the school year. In the fall, it’s football. In winter, it’s basketball, now he is playing baseball. The coach for these teams have all been male. My son tried Boy Scouts but decided it wasn’t his cup of tea. He also has an uncle who spends a lot of time with him. I hope he sees in these male mentors how a man should be and that he grows up to be a good person.
When talking about the male/female teams when working with children, I both understand how frustrating it is and how absolutely necessary it is. As an inner city program coordinator I walk this line every day. I don’t suspect the male volunteers of anything, however, many of the children I work with have been sexually abused and I would never want them to feel threatened in any way. This system also means that the male volunteers feel more at ease because they have someone that can back them up and suspicion will not be placed on both of them.
I would also disagree with you on the point that male volunteers don’t come out because it is a hassle. I would argue that it has far more to do with societies image of masculine is. Men are told over and over that they shouldn’t WANT to work with kids, and therefore they don’t. It is actually easier for a man to volunteer because they are in such short supply, I would be able to use about 5 more males in my program (they would have jobs instantly) whereas I wouldn’t know what to do with even one more female.
I totally agree that boys and young men need men to look up to, but I wouldn’t say that our system in handicapping that effort but rather or view of masculinity.
For several years, i had 3 fatherless boys(dad deceased) and had to be very intentional about providing good male role models(boy baby sitters, getting them a “Big Brother”, etc). I now have 4 boys and 1 girl. I am very fortunate to say that my sons do have many good male role models in many different areas of their life, school teachers, principals, coaches, church and friends who have involved fathers. It is critical, in my opinion, for the well roundedness of boys (and girls). I think what is even more critical is the mother/wife/woman giving acknowledge of the importance of male role models. We need to give them the space and support to be the men. I/we as women can have that tendency to step up and take over. Boys learn by watching the men in their lives. Girls learn what to expect from men by watching the men in their lives. God created both mother/woman and father/man. They are both important to the upbringing of healthy children.
This is a huge issue in my opinion. I have three sons, all in their 20’s. Fortunately, they had good friends with fathers’ who were present. They were on sports teams. Not to mention my husband was a wonderfully involved father. I have often thought Paul’s admonition in 1Tim2, was a way to force men to take their role (by keeping women silent).
For boys to know loving leadership, they need to see it. Just as Jesus humbled himself by choice when washing the disciples feet, our sons need to see men lead through sacrifice as a choice. But, if men continue to be so degraded by society in general, not many of them are going to want to ‘come out and play.’
I don’t have any sons, but I have to say I feel for the guys and I have for years. My own husband was much deprived of a good male role model growing up. So much so that he was relieved that we had only girls–he was terrified of the idea of trying to lead sons when he’d been so badly led himself. And, it’s a rather terrible line for them to have to walk–always presumed guilty of misconduct by virtue of their gender. And not just with kids. Guys also have to be so aware of how their conduct will look in regards to sexual harassment. There are, unfortunately, plenty of horrid women who would accuse such things for not getting what they want (even if it wasn’t sexual in nature).
I think, too, in regards to service that a lot of guys have trouble finding the time to teach classes and such with working long hours and then spending time with family as well. Our own family time with my husband is scarce and precious; and frankly, we are his priority.
Thank you for posting on this subject! I am not a mother (yet) but I am a leader at our church’s youth group and our leadership is pretty balanced but it does lack strong male influence. We see the amounts of young men dwindle through their high school years and I feel its because they don’t have a bond with the male leadership there drawing them in. My husband who loves kids and would be great at working with the younger children at our church is disengaged because of the potential legal issues and how many hoops he’d have to jump through to start.
Having a strong male in your child’s life and having your husband be the leader of your household is so important! Thank you for your blog giving us wives encouragement and ways to support and encourage our men when we want to step in and take over!
My boy is only a year old (tomorrow!), but luckily he has a few ‘men’ that he interacts with at church — which is our primarily outside the home place. Two teenage boys, sons of couples who also work in the children’s ministry, occasionally work with kids and in the nursery, and Peanut LOVES it when Zack or Jared is there. And Zack and Jared both show excitement when they see Peanut. They talk to me about what things Peanut did that day and how they played with them. There are lots of other adults around, so I know its safe. And Peanut is so comfortable with Zack that he would sleep in Zack’s arms when he was younger.
Sometimes I get angry about those who make life hard for the rest of us. One adult is inappropriate with a child, and its ruined for the rest of us. Yes, I think its worth doing what we can to protect our children, and I’m thankful our church has a strict check-in and check-out system, I just wish it wasn’t needed.
It’s very unfortunate that the checks are needed, but they are. A man very close to me was raped by a teenage male babysitter when he was four. The teenage male also raped his own little sister, who was around four as well. The teenage boy raped his sister on a regular basis.
I don’t trust women any more than I trust the men, however. I’m scared to death to have kids because there are so many horrible people out there.
Yes! I see this too and it worries me.
We adopted our children from special needs foster care; neither of them knows who their bio-fathers were. Bio-mom doesn’t know – how could they? In the 4 foster homes, there either was no foster father for them, or the foster father was an over-the-road driver – so my now-14-yer-oldson never had a father at all before adoption.
He came to us at age 9,and to say he has blossomed is SUCH an understatement! But I struggle to find male role models for him. He clearly LOVES having a father at home, and my husband is a goodman (issues in our relationship not withstanding). But DH isa very different type of guy than my beloved son.
DH isan intellectual, academic, book-loving kind of nerd. (I say it with love – I’m a nerd, too). My son is the epitome of the country boy – outside ALL THE TIME, hates to read, loves hunting, fishing, fixin’ things, etc.
Thankfully, the church sponsors a boy scout troop, and my son has a wonderful group of male leaders. But his school teachers are all female, his friends are mostly being raised by single moms.
He so NEEDS good men in his life,and it’s not easy to find!
I don’t have a boy; I have a girl, but that girl has a father who is involved in her everyday life, a male minister, men in our church who volunteer with the kids, she interacts with the fathers of her friends, her father’s male friends see her more often than my female friends and she has a close, loving relationship with her paternal grandfather and maternal step-grandfather (just as she would have had an amazing relationship with my father had he not passed away when she was a baby). She also has a male gym teacher. She is in kindergarten.
I think it is important for children to interact with adults of both genders, but it is also important to protect our kids. The are more likely to be molested by some one they know who has lots of access to them. Yet, some policies on the topic(for men and women) have gotten ridiculous. The two women at her YMCA could not help her the other day when she had difficulty in the bathroom pulling up her panty hose, for example. Yet I understand to a point why that isn’t allowed(to protect against false allegations). It is a difficult issue to address without going overboard.
Regardless, though, I do think parents need to seek out those positive male role models. Why not meet up with another family who has a dad and suggest taking turns with play dates where the moms visit and the dad(s) play with the kids ? Something like that.
Anyway, I guess if we had a son he would be super lucky because he would be surrounded by men. In the meantime, our daughter gets to spend time with those men who treat her and her mommy with kindness and respect, so she learns how men SHOULD interact with her(and therefore she will know if someone is being inappropriate).
Speaking as a man, it is almost assumed that any male wanting to work with children is some sort of pervert, Teaching is becoming an increasingly female occupation. Church congregations, except Eastern Orthodox, are predominantly female. The increase in divorce makes it more likely that the home environment does not have a stable male influence, something that is exacerbated by some divorced mothers preventing their ex-husbands seeing their children as a means of getting back at their ex-husbands for some slight or misdemeanour.
I think that part of the problem is down to churches trying to encourage women all the time and just consistently getting on the men;s cases. For example watch the two videos in the TRIAL series on 1 & 2 Peter by Mark Driscoll and see the difference in tone. One addressed to women which is gentle and one addressed to men which is harsh and condemnatory. Indeed, just compare and contrast the prayers he uses to begin those two sermons. This attitude helps to turn men away from the church and that is the one place where we all ought to be getting correct teaching for marriage.
My brother nor I knew our biological fathers. (yes they were different men) And our step-father was verbally and mentally abusive to us and physically abusive to my brother as he grew older. (He’s as big as a man so he can take the punch of a man. My brother being 12YO, 5’7″ and weighing 112lbs.) My brother, however, is an AMAZING man. I see the man that he is and I made sure to find a man that could compare to him. My fiance’s father was VERY physically abusive and an alcoholic. So he really didn’t have much in the way of male influences either. But both men had other men in their lives that showed them what real men were. Thankfully, they took cues from those men. My son has his father in his life. He’s a wonderful and involved dad. And he treats the women in his life well also, which is something, because many don’t any longer. My son also has my brother in his life and we have MANY male friends that he calls “uncle”. He’s not old enough to be in school or sports, so I can’t say about that. But in our church all the youth leaders are women. Our pastor and deacons are ALL men, but when it comes to teaching the children, it’s left to the ladies to do it. I never thought of that. Interesting.
We have a 14 year old son, and I was happy to realize, as I read the article, that he does have quite a few male influences in his life. I do have to say though, that this is more true as he has gotten older. It seems that women are more prominent in teaching in the early years, but now that he is in junior high , he has more male teachers than female. This also includes Sunday School. I am blessed with a husband who loves to spend time with his children. Father and son mountain bike together with other older males, work outside at home and church and, of course, play video games.
We have had many of our children’s friends pass through our doors, and it is often quite obvious if there is not a good male relationship in their lives. Sometimes my husband would get overwhelmed by the amount of attention that these other children would want from him. Many of these kids come from two parent homes, but the lack of positive male attention could be seen, in both boys and girls.
My husband was assigned to go down to the nursery at church, but some of the mothers would not leave their babies down if there were no other women on hand. This is another reason that men think it is too much of a hassle to help out.
Men definitely live under the stigma of being sexual predators, and it’s very disheartening. From my own experience, I can tell you it isn’t worth it trying to minister under the suspicion that exists.
Anymore, it’s very difficult, if not impossible, to know what women want and just what is expected of us. Frankly, I don’t even feel safe acknowledging any kind of simple conversation or interaction with children.
As I mentioned a couple of days ago, my husband has made it clear that divorce is necessary. I worry about my son. He has asperger’s and adhd, as well as a host of other things; and now he must live in a home with two females. I made a point of reaching out to my dad and step-brother to be positive Christian role models in his life; as well as a male friend. I am also going to make a point of introducing him to more male-oriented things so he’s not inundated with pink, bling, and crafts – he’s mentioned an interest in archery and rocketry; and I got him a Gary Paulsen book on CD (hoping he’ll want to read the actual books). And, of course, I’m praying for him.
Heather, it sounds like you have a great support system around you, and that’s wonderful! And you’ve got a great attitude on raising him, and I’m sure God will give you the strength and the wisdom and the help you need.
I hope you also have a great support system for you to help walk with you through the grief and this crisis. I pray that God will throw His arms around you and help you to really feel Him.
I have 3 boys 14, 12, and 10 and a 7 year old girl. It is not only the boys that need male presence in their lives, my daughter does to. I don’t think there is any one factor that has caused this turn in our culture, but I have witnessed some things that I believe may be contributing to it. There seems to be an undermining of the role that men have been given by God and it happens frequently in our homes. Last fall I was at one of my kids’ soccer games and I heard a mom behind me giving specific instructions to walk over to her small child and do this… and say that… etc, I thought she was instructing another child, but when I glanced over my shoulder I saw she was talking this way to her husband! Men are being belittled and ordered around by women and told not to parent like a man, but to parent like a woman. We have taken their God given nature and told them it’s wrong, that it’s not good enough, that our way is better. It’s OK for men to parent differently, boys will grow up being better men if they see men free to be themselves, mistakes and all. If all they see is women running everything (and everyone) and fixing men so they are acceptable to them, then boys will grow up expecting women do it all and won’t take the responsibilities in life they naturally should. When any of my kids complain about my husband doing anything differently than me, I tell them, “he is your father, your job is to honor him and obey him even if you don’t agree with him.” I am hoping to set an example to them of #1 that as a husband and father they should be respected and #2 the kind of woman they want for a wife — one that honors them as a man and backs them as the father, not one that back stabs them.
Yikes! That went way too long. Sorry.
I worked rotating 12 hour shifts for many years. During that “prime earning” time of my career, I took a lot of overtime to be sure the needs of our family were met. I was, also, a volunteer EMT in our small community. As I look back, I see how I left my children to be raised by their mother.
My wife and I will be married 39 years this summer and we have talked about that period of our lives. I would come home to be the Husband and Dad and I was actually disrupting their lives. Essentially, I was tolerated. I see in my son an insecurity about commitment to others. A lot of over thinking on what I would consider easy decisions. He thinks a lot like his mother when it comes to decisions. He doesn’t like risk. I feel like I missed teaching him so much about being a man. I wish I had turned down that overtime for him instead of turning him down for the money. There are different ways of abandoning your children. I found out you can do it and still be at home.
He and I have talked and I have asked for his forgiveness which he graciously gave me. The problem is, I cannot unring that bell. We talk, we have a wonderful relationship but he judges so much through the training of his mother. My counsel is a bit risky for him yet.
Sheila, thanks for your blog, your book and your common sense.
Thanks for that comment, Ryck. I hope other men reading this heed your warning.
Hi Ryck – thanks for your comment. My husband used to say that all the time. He’s a firefighter/paramedic that works for two different companies. He used to yell at me because he felt like he was an interruption to what we were doing; he complained that he was just tolerated. No matter what we did to try to accommodate his schedule, it wasn’t enough. There really was only so much we could do. He just kept working, adding more and more shifts; yet he refused to eliminate things like his iphone (which enabled him to keep his private life secret), extra cable boxes, expensive drinks. I always said I would have preferred to just have him at home, but he never listened.
We are fortunate to have a strong group of Christian men in our extended family. My husband included, of course.
However, I do see the problem that you and Alte wrote about. Boys in particular are suffering from a lack of strong, godly role models. I have no sons but I strongly agree with Erika that girls need that male influence as well.
Girls need that strong influence so they would know what to look for when ready for marriage.
I know Men have to be very careful theses days because of things that has happened. It is not easy explaining to your six year old son why a man did to him what he did which was not very nice. He is now 19 and is still having problem dealing with what this man a church of God pastor did to him.
I think that there are so many bad men in our world until parents are getting really funny about who there children are with. I think men should stay involed but I think it should be supervised in some way. I say this because I would have never thought that this pastor our freind would have done this.
The same thing happened to my sister but by our familys best friend.You never know who or when this could happen to your child. So I say we need to seek Gods advice on this Matter and ask for his help in giving us decernment to know which men should be mentors to your boys.
In closing I say that this seems to always happen to the most trusting of kids. Maybe we need to help them know what is permisable actions and what is not and that they must always tell if they think that someone is invading there bodies
I know that it ‘seemed’ ok not to have as many men around: plus the radical feminists chased them off. NOW, we’re in 2012 when men don’t even know how to act.Women are Girls are acting desperate for male attention. So many women havent bothered to form the family before they had kids.Single moms in one generation is one thing, when THAT generation copied the other, its a PROBLEM. We have to teach the young men & women not to look at porn at all–when married they would have 50+ years to know each others bodies, etc.
We have to teach the young women to be homemakers–(gasp) and the young men to work on cars. because the depression/ww2 generation are dying off fast. This could be the reason 80 is the new 70, and 50 is the new 40 etc.