Do you struggle with dissociating during sex?
It’s Wednesday, the day that we talk marriage! I introduce a topic, and then you all write your own post and come back here and link it up! Or you leave comments to participate in the conversation!
For the last week we’ve been talking about a really difficult subject: recovery after pornography. I know not everybody struggles with this, and if your marriage is fine, more power to you! Read on, though, because the advice near the end of this post will apply to just about everyone who wants to make their sexual life more intimate. Today I want to talk about the problem of having to fantasize during sex to get aroused–basically having to dissociate during sex and retreat into your head, rather than focusing on your husband. It’s more common than people think. But we can recover from it!
Last Wednesday, when I posted on the trouble with men and pornography, I received a number of emails from women saying, “what about me? How do I stop?” So on Monday I wrote a follow-up post about why women sometimes battle with pornography.
Basically, the motivations are often different. While some women do struggle with pornography simply because of lust, I don’t think it’s as straightforward as that usually.
Here’s what I mean. Men, when they use pornography, usually fantasize about that particular image (and thus that particular woman) which is, of course, the definition of lust. They may be doing it for very complex reasons, such as needing to feel powerful, or wanting to feel loved, but the end result is the same.
Women, on the other hand, rarely look at pornography and fantasize about the person in the picture (though some do).
They tend to look at images of other women. In university I did a whole paper on this, and basically it comes down to the fact that women are fantasizing about what might happen to this woman. They’re experiencing their sexuality vicariously, through the woman in the picture/video, rather than through themselves. In other words, when they start looking at images, most women are already dissociating. They’re already thinking of something outside their bodies, where their bodies aren’t actually participating.
And hence lies the problem. Men’s problem with pornography is that they can’t become aroused with their wives without picturing an image of another woman; women’s problem frequently is that they can only become aroused by retreating into their heads and fantasizing about what is happening to someone else (or to a generic woman). And this really short circuits your sexuality.
When God invented sex, He designed it to be something which brought us together on many levels simultaneously: emotionally, spiritually, and physically. Physically because we’re enjoying ourselves together; emotionally because we reaffirm our relationship while we make love; and spiritually because we reaffirm our connection.
Unfortunately, for many of us, we’re not able to attain most of those goals because we’re not really present during sex. We’re dissociating during sex instead.
Many women, as I explained on Monday, turn to these images because sex physically isn’t working for them with their husbands. Perhaps they’ve never figured out how to make it feel good for her, or perhaps she has other issues, like past sexual baggage, abuse, or physical difficulties (we talked about all of these on Monday). She starts worrying about not being able to respond or enjoy sex, so she does whatever she can to put herself in the mood. And frequently that involves pulling up old images in her brain from seeing porn before, or seeking new ones on the internet. Women don’t necessarily need the constant new images the way men do; but it doesn’t matter. The result is the same, in that many women use images to get them through sex. And thus they’re missing out on what God designed it for.
I’ve received lots of emails and some brave comments from women saying,
I know I’m dissociating during sex, and thinking about anything except what is actually going on, but I don’t know how to stop.
Others of you may find this a really icky issue, and are wondering why we’re talking about it at all. But it is something that increasing numbers of women struggle with, and there isn’t good information out there. If you’re a good Christian woman, and you really do want to live for Christ, and raise your family well, where do you turn when in this one area you can’t seem to overcome? What do you do?
First, I do believe that God can heal and can give everyone a new sex drive. Some of the comments have already shown that God really is working in people’s lives to help them overcome this.
Second, recognize that this is an area of our lives where we are likely to get attacked. Sex is what binds us together, spiritually as well as physically. Sex is very closely tied to our identity. If we’re to be ripped apart, this is a good place to target. And with sex going so extreme and so crazy in the wider society, it’s a wonder anybody can have a healthy sex life at all, especially because our idea of “healthy” is so skewed. We think a healthy sex life is one where people make love frequently and always achieve orgasm. We don’t leave any room for “healthy sex life” including feeling connected and feeling intimate. It’s all a physical thing.
And that’s just not true.
When you use fantasy to get you through making love, you’re essentially conceding that sex is only physical, because you’re not present in an emotional or spiritual way.
Thus, you’re missing out on the best.
The way to be present in those ways, though, also involves being present physically. So if you want to overcome this problem (or if you don’t have this problem but you want to make your intimate life even more intimate), here’s what I would suggest:
1. Take time to practice being naked together.
Lie naked together. Have baths together. And don’t let your mind wander. Without necessarily making love, enjoy his body. Run your hands over it. Concentrate on the intimacy that comes from doing something you will only do with him. Every now and then, do this separate from making love to get you more accustomed to being mentally present when you are also making love.
2. Play some games where you learn what makes you feel good.
Make it fun. Suggest it for some evening this week, where he just touches you in different ways. Many of us assume that our sex drives are dead, and that they exist solely in our heads. You need to reawaken that. Many women, too, developed these coping mechanisms because they weren’t enjoying sex. The key to defeating this, then, is to give you confidence that you can enjoy this one day. Your body, after all, was created for this. We don’t all enjoy the same things, though. But get some good Christian books on the subject and have fun figuring out what you like. You can even do the same thing to your husband, to figure out how he best likes to be touched. It’s amazing how little we actually communicate in this aspect of our lives.
This may be a long process, going on for several weeks or months, as you get used to relaxing, being present, and learning that your body can respond. You aren’t going to rewire your brain overnight. But the great thing about being married is that you do have a lot of time to practice! Take it.
3. When you are making love, pay attention to what is going on.
If you find your mind wandering, stop. And ask yourself this question, over and over, “what would I like him to do now?” It sounds silly, but as you concentrate on how your body is feeling, you may find that you actually DO want him to do something specific. Tell him. He’ll likely find this very exciting, because he never will have seen you like this before. If you’ve used most of your intimate experiences in the past to think about other things, it means that you weren’t as active physically. Once you start concentrating on what your body is feeling, you start moving a little more. I hope that’s not too much information, but it is true. And it makes you much more engaged in the process from his point of view, as well.
Ask yourself, then, what am I enjoying? What do I want to come next? Then tell him! Don’t order him around, but show him. In other words, get used to listening to your body, not separating from your body to go somewhere else. If something doesn’t feel good, tell him that, too. Don’t just put up with it, because for women, paying attention is the key to sexual arousal. If our heads aren’t in the game, our bodies won’t follow (unless we deliberately fantasize). So you must keep your head there, and if he’s doing something you don’t like, it’s hard to keep your head there. So in a polite way, find a way to redirect him.
4. Clear distractions from your head.
It isn’t just images that we can use to distance ourselves during sex. Pretty much anything that enters our head can steer us from what was a positive experience to something else. You might suddenly start planning your day tomorrow, without meaning to. You might start a shopping list in your head as soon as you get a little bored. Stop. As soon as you find yourself doing that, take control and come back.
This is much harder for a woman than it is for a man because we tend to be multi-taskers. We’re always thinking of 3-4 things at a time. But sex doesn’t work unless we’re able to completely concentrate on him and on what’s happening. That’s one of the reasons it can be so intimate for a woman; it’s the only time in your day that you are completely focused on one thing.
Often when sex has been a source of tension, women cope with it by making those shopping lists. It’s a hard habit to break. But do break it, and start concentrating on what you’re both doing, and on what feels good.
5. Talk to him.
If you want to stay present, talk. Tell him you love him. Tell him what you like. If you talk, you’re forced to think about what’s actually happening, and you’re forced to stay in the moment.
6. Look into his eyes.
As one of the commenters said on Monday, she has learned to look into his eyes to help focus on what is happening. You can’t picture an image if you’re looking into his eyes. And the connection then is really intense.
If you focus on talking to him, looking in his eyes, concentrating on what he is doing, and banishing distractions, you’ll find that sex is much more intimate than it was before–even if you don’t achieve orgasm at first. There’s a big sexual high that comes simply from feeling so connected to your husband, and many women, if you’ve been involved in dissociating during sex, have never experienced this.
You may also find that this whole process results in making love taking longer than it used to–but that can be a good thing.
It’s much more intense. And as you concentrate on what feels good, one of the things you might want to do is to get him to slow down!
I do hope that helps. I know that dissociating during sex is a very intractable problem that seems like it may never have a solution. But if you pray about it (you are allowed to pray about sex, you know), and work on being truly intimate with your husband, I think you’ll find that things slowly start to improve.
Remember–my book, The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, talks about this issue at length, and how we can start enjoying sex for everything God created it to be, and stop settling for less. Check it out today!
Sheila Wray Gregoire has been married for 29 years and happily married for 24! She loves traveling around North America with her hubby in their RV, giving her signature "Girl Talk" about sex and marriage. And she's written 7 books. About sex and marriage. See a theme here? Plus she knits. Even in line at the grocery store.








>Can I make a suggestion that you write a book about a new bride's bedroom manuel? I would have loved to know these things when I was first married. And if I have daughters I would love to be able to equip them with proper advice on how to enhance the intamcy in the new journey of their marriage.
It's wonderful to be able to learn all these things with your husband. Sex is God's gift to move us from roommates to married and one flesh. Thanks for this post.
Hey, Tessa, I know this is late, but I finally did it! The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex–it will be out in January of 2012!
>Thanks, Tessa!
It's so funny that there's only one comment today, because my traffic has actually been up!
I think we're all interested in this topic, but a little mortified to write about it….
Welcome to my world! One of the hardest things I had to learn to do was to talk openly and frankly about sex at the marriage conferences I speak at. Now that's weird.
But if you don't feel comfortable commenting, don't worry! We're getting back to regular bread and butter issues tomorrow on this blog!
>great topics! It's sad that sex is not spoken about openly among christian women. I always try to be frank and honest and let me friends know that they can talk to me about anything. Thanks for doing the same here!
>Again I say "Bravo" to you and your COURAGE to touch such an IMPORTANT and relevant topic!! I am not ashamed to openly share because "go figure" this is the very thing that the Lord has called me to- to minister to women who struggle in this area and other "hard" areas that are not openly ministered to in the body of Christ–I know what it is like to feel so overwhelemed with bondage and want to be so desperately free and have no idea how–I remember feeling so lost and even asking other Godly women that I trusted "what do YOU think about during sex" because I SO wanted to be "normal" and I just needed to know what a "normal" woman thought about….so I could try to be normal 🙂
Disassociation did begin for me in the midst of being abused- while being abused I would become in my mind a little speck on the flower on the ceiling- truly I am thankful that I had that tool as a child to survive the abuse mentally- however, once married I didn't want to be able to "go away" in my mind anymore- but then it had become such an automatic response to sex that I had to work on NOT doing that– I would say that for some (like me) – it takes years….not weeks or months to retrain your mind to remain present- for me, I had been so tremendously abused sexually that it was very difficult to retrain every part of who I was to think and feel and know that "o.k., this is GOOD now, this is your Godly husband who loves you, you are safe, your suppose to like this now…." The Lord has brought me SO far and I have been SO healed from where I was but honestly even to THIS day I continue to work on being completly free in this area-a big part of this was just renewing my mind to what God's word said on sex- reading Godly books about sex–it's kind of like if you were stabbed with a knife every day of your life for 15 years then probably after that you would try to find a way to just stay away from knives if you could- becasue for you they wouldn't represent a helpful tool but instead a weapon that had been used to instill fear, pain and agony… for me this is how I though about sex when I entered marriage- love DID NOT equal sex in my mind- for instance, of the techniques that you mentioned I have absolutely utilized the "Keeping my eyes open" one- when my eyes close then my mind wanders– as time goes on I am able to here and there but as soon as an image tries to creep up I have to open them again and RE-FOCUS– I have to be extremely careful what I allow into my ears and eyes- there are VERY FEW secular movies these days that I can veiw- because anytime there is a sexual scene it triggers danger on the inside of me that my mind will grab ahold of that and hold it for later to feed on during making love with my husband- and secular books- HA! I haven't been able to read one of those for YEARS–this is for ME though- and not everyone may have to go to the same extreme but for Me I wanted to be FREE and the Lord was very Faithful to show me what was and was not beneficial to help me continue to heal– but as for "talking" during sex, that is still a struggle for me- and even if my husband talks I'm not entirely comfortable with that- and even learning how to allow him to be the one that initiates…shew! That took alot of time and is still a work in progress for me- Sex is SO MENTAL–in the beginning of my healing there was no ability to be spontaneous at all- IF we were going to have sex it was going to be on my terms, when I wanted and how I wanted– initiated by ME–that way I had all day (or week) to work myself up mentally to a place to be o.k. with it– if women are crockpots then let me tell you- I was a VERY slow warming one that only turned on when it wanted to and then didn't even get the job done most of the time!!
>An additional technique that I would suggest when your mind starts to wonder is to pray on the inside of your brain– ask the Lord for help to experience sex the way He intended with your husband- it may not make you feel aroused but if your mind is wandering this will at least keep it from wandering to the monster of porn that will grow bigger each time it is fed…. This is the only way that I felt safe-the level of trust required with someone to allow yourself to be present during such complete transparency, vulnerability and intimacy is very high indeed- Many times at the beginning of our marriage, trying to make love with my husband reminded me so much of being abused (not because of anything my husband did at all) that it would throw me into flashbacks that would end with me rolled up in a little ball crying like a little girl– God bless my husband. And on THAT note- I do have to say that I am BLESSED with a wonderful husband- I could not imagine trying to overcome these types of things if I did not-and even for my wonderful husband it was VERY difficult to here that I struggled with masturbation- that I disassociated during sex–because of my traumatic childhood his brain could understand that it had nothing to do with him but his heart–well, there were many times that my husband felt rejected and hurt and frustrated at how LONG of a process healing was for me–and he is very attentive during lovemaking and cares very much about us both being sexually fulfilled– I have talked to MANY Godly women whose husbands are selfish in bed and only care about their own needs- for these women I imagine that the absence of the intimate, loving part of sex with their husband would make it much more difficult NOT to disassociate. Because TRUST is of such vital importance in the bedroom I would add that MUCH healing came when my husband and I worked on our communication, trust and intimacy OUTSIDE of the bedroom- when I began to trust my husband with my heart and heart issues- it was then that we began to see true breakthroughs in the bedroom–
>interesting question on the mouthy housewives today (mouthyhousewives.com) *not a christian site* – your wisdom could certainly be utilized here Sheila.
>My Father's Daughter: Thank you for your honesty and your help in posting here! I think you've really blessed many with your story of hope that God can restore what was stolen–if we keep our focus on Him!
>Anonymous: I did visit mouthyhousewives and left a link to the four posts in this series! I hope it helps people realize how dangerous porn is.
>This was a good post. I second the need for a new bride's bedroom manual, it could even be a pamphlet. I find myself praying "please God let me be receptive to my husband" and God usually answers my prayers..
>I have been absolutely amazed as I have read your posts on this subject. I saw myself so clearly. I had no idea that these things were so interconnected. I now have a glimmer of insight and of hope to move toward a more intimate relationship with my husband.
Thank you so much for writing about this subject.
>I don't go looking for porn, porn seems to find me. Changing channels on the TV, looking at a magazine, etc. I cover up my problem by doing other things, trying not to think about it. The images I have seen are burned in my brain. I have never spoken to anyone about my problem, too ashamed.
Men, when they use pornography, usually fantasize about that particular woman
How do you know this? I don’t think you understand how men think. You are quick to label pornography use an “addiction” in men (“habit” would be a better word), but when it comes to women’s use of it, it’s because of something some man in the past did or didn’t do and the woman is an innocent victim.
This is ludicrous. While it may well be true in some cases, I don’t think it’s generally true at all. Many women enjoy pornography as much as men do; many men use it as a last resort because their wives are cold fish, and still others imagine themselves doing those things with her or wishing she would do those things with him.
The way you are talking about it here makes people think they have more of a problem than they do and it doesn’t really look much into the heart of it for the average person.
What I wrote was based on research. I have a Master’s degree in men’s and women’s sexuality. You can look at tons of studies on the effects of porn. Take the book Pornified, which detailed most of them succinctly.
No, not all porn use is an addiction, but it easily can be.
Should women leave their husbands over this? No, I don’t think so. But I do believe that it can become as harmful an addiction as alcoholism (as has been shown by the support groups popping up, and the men losing their jobs over it for using it at work), and to pretend that it doesn’t have these harmful effects is to put your head in the sand.
I am not saying that women are less at fault for using porn than men; what I am saying is that the effect on their sexuality is quite different, though equally damaging. That is what this post is about. And it’s about helping women repair some of the damage. I’m not sure how you’re making the leap from that that I’m saying that men are the problem; this whole post is that women are having a problem. I believe you’re coming at this with your own perspective and reading into things that I am not saying.
I have received hundreds of emails from women desperate about what to do because their husbands spend all night watching porn and won’t come to bed. You can deny this is a problem all you want. You can blame women for labelling men’s sexuality perverted. But the truth is that porn is wrecking marital intimacy, and if you ignore that, then you are propagating a culture which is promoting divorce, because this is leading to divorce. I believe there are ways around it. I believe that God heals. I believe that women can get through it without resorting to separation and divorce. And I believe that women are beginning to use porn now, too (30% of all porn internet watchers are now female). But to say that we should ignore this, that men do it, and that it’s not a problem, is to deny people the real help they need to build marriages that are thriving.
I’m not saying we should ignore it, but what percentage of men who use porn are in that extreme end that get fired from work or stay up all night watching it? It’s one thing to help those people, but it seems that all porn use gets lumped in with that, and that just seems illogical when you consider how widespread porn use is. Aren’t the vast majority not using it to that level of detriment? I am not convinced by your arguments that women and men use porn that much differently. Each places himself in the respective role. It is only different in that men’s and women’s sexuality is different, but there is a distinct flavour here of men-perpetrators, women-victims.
I am not saying it’s harmless in any quantity, but that making all porn use into a problem is like teetotalers who think that a glass of wine with dinner will lead to alcoholism.
I don’t know what is taught in a master’s degree on male and female sexuality nor the sources of the informations and “studies”, but that doesn’t hold much water with me. If I don’t know what’s taught in such classes, I am not going to be impressed one way or another by credentials. I’m looking at the arguments, not from whom they emanate.
No, not all people are fired from work for using porn. But like alcohol, it can become a heavy addiction.
The difference between our viewpoints is that I believe “even a little” porn is still wrong. It is morally wrong. It is not harmless. Sex is meant to connect us on three levels: physical, emotional, and spiritual. By taking commitment away from sex, by opening up sex to everyone and anyone, we have left the emotional and spiritual connection out, and focused solely on the physical in our current society. And that focus enters into marriage. Ironically, it is those who are most conservative religiously and who are married who are most likely to experience orgasm during intercourse (according to the National Sex Survey, as well as a survey by the Family Resesarch Council, and the survey of 2000 women I did for my new book). Those who are married have the best sex.
And yet our culture still pushes a “pornified” version of sex.
I believe sex is meant between a man and woman in a committed marriage relationship. Porn has no role in that. It is wrong. And people need to recognize it as wrong, in the same way that we need to recognize lying is wrong, or stealing is wrong, or anything else is wrong.
You may not agree with me. You don’t have to. But on this blog we talk about the Christian view of marriage and sex, and porn has no place in that. Porn, even if you only use it “a little”, changes the wiring in the brain regarding sexual arousal, so that what becomes arousing is an image, rather than a person or a relationship. Even secular researchers are acknowledging this, with Ian Kerner, Ph.D., coining the term SADD, or Sexual Attention Deficit Disorder, where porn means that you are no longer able to perform sexually in bed in a real relationship.
Some users are addicted to porn. Others are not. But regardless, it is changing our view of sexuality so that it emphasizes the physical over all else, even though those who have the best physically satisfying sex are those who are also connected on other levels as well. It is wrecking marriages, even when addiction is not involved. And if you read this post, and the others that preceded it, you would see how I detailed how even a small amount of porn use can change a woman’s ability to respond in bed. That’s scary. And that is the position of this blog.
I don’t disagree with that aspect, what I’m taking issue with is the way you appear to characterise men as perpetrators and women as victims. Pornography is a symptom, not a cause. Its ubiquity is a symptom of greater societal ills and sexual repression is chief among those. The opposite of repression is not license, either. It is the repressive aspect of the culture that has caused this to spill over the way it has, not that porn has caused the state of the culture today.
And if porn is a mostly male problem, what of all the bodice rippers women read – and blatantly I might add. There is no shame in a woman sitting on the subway reading about being ravished by a handsome stranger, but men are routinely shamed for their sexual desires.
I think you are judging me by one post, and I find your comments rather strange. Are you deliberately trying to find fault with me, because that’s what it seems. First, I have written on this blog about how women need to careful with what they watch on TV, and with what movies they watch, and even about putting their sports heroes up on Facebook, because romantic fantasies about others are not okay.
But that is not what this post is about. This post is about the fact that WOMEN can be hurt by porn, and that WOMEN need to find a way around it. Yet you seem intent on accusing me of saying that men are all to blame, when I have not said that. This post is even about women. Porn is mostly a male problem (in that 70% of users are male), but it is obviously not solely a male problem or I would not have written this post.
Yes, there are other problems. I have 1000 posts up on this blog. The vast majority of these posts, if you read them (and especially the Wifey Wednesday posts) are on how WOMEN are undermining their marriages. I believe that you are here trying to accuse me of saying something that I am not.
Can you direct me to specific posts where you do this? I only have so much time on my hands and 1000 posts is rather a lot to sift through.
I don’t have time to do a bunch because I’m running out to speak at the Kiwanis Club tonight and I have to finish up my notes. But off of the top of my head:
Do Women Expect Endless Courtship?
https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2011/10/do-women-expect-endless-courtship/
Who is Your Romantic Fantasy?
https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2011/04/wifey-wednesday-who-is-your-romantic/
Why He Won’t Meet Your Needs
https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2011/01/wifey-wednesday-post-you-wont-want-to/
Til Death Do Us Part
https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2010/06/wifey-wednesday-what-does-til-death-do/
These are just recent ones. There are tons more. Hope that helps.
Thanks Sheila, I appreciate you finding a few links for me. The problem is it doesn’t really change what you’ve said on this particular post, nor my criticism of it. I’m judging what I read on this post. In particular:
Men, when they use pornography, usually fantasize about that particular image (and thus that particular woman) which is, of course, the definition of lust.
I think this is completely off and isn’t what men do at all when viewing porn. Lust is a lot more complicated than this. I don’t think there is much lust involved in viewing pornography – arousal, yes; lust, not so much.
Lust is deliberately getting aroused by viewing another person. It’s really as simple as that. Men tend to use images of women’s bodies to get aroused–hence it is lust. Women tend to use images of things being done to other women–also lust–but in a different way. They are experiencing their sex vicariously, through that woman, which was the point of the post. To deliberately get oneself aroused through porn, whether it is vicariously or through using an image to help with that arousal–are both lust. They are both wrong. I am just commenting that the result on the sexuality is quite different for both men and women. Men start to require images to get aroused (which is why sexless marriages are on the rise, since men are losing the ability to be aroused in relationship), and women need to dissociate to get aroused. They are caused by similar things, but the effects are different. That is the point of my post. Women and men are very different sexually. That is simply a fact. Men are far more visually stimulated than women. Men find very different things erotic than women. Our sexuality is different, and thus our temptations and challenges and solutions are different. This post is about how women can help overcome a problem with dissociation. And that is really all I would like to say on the subject, because I think we’re just going around in circles.
Yes, men and women are different – I have not denied that – but your understanding of lust is flawed and right in this comment you blame porn and men for sexless marriages. I’d bet dollars to doughnuts more often the problem is the woman trying to control everything and denying sex to the man, so the man turns to porn for some relief. Most men would rather have a good relationship with one willing woman.
No, I did not blame men for sexless marriages. I blamed porn for the INCREASE in sexless marriages, and there is lots of research on this. In general, it is women who make love less than men and it is men who have the higher sex drive. In general (as I have said in countless posts on this blog) it is women who are not having sex frequently enough and it is women who need to step up to the plate.
But SEXLESS marriages are not the same as infrequency-of-sex marriages. And while sexless marriages have always been around, they have doubled in incidence in the last ten years. And researchers have found that the culprit is porn.
Let me just add that it often isn’t the porn use itself that is the root cause – it’s more often a symptom of other problems within the marriage, such as a wife denying her husband sex (a fairly common one, don’t you agree?.
Another thought I forgot to add to my comment above is that this also provides Christian women with justification and rationalisation to divorce and then keep fathers from their children. The father is seen as having a sexual deviant so she is justified in severely restricting his access to his children. If you think this doesn’t happen with alarming frequency, you’re dreaming.
Sorry, typo – take out the word “having” in my last comment.